The clamour for the release of the detained leader of the Shiites movement in Nigeria, Ayatollah Ibrahim Yaqoub El Zakzaky, took a frightening dimension recently with relentless nationwide protests by members of the Islamic sect. AUGUSTINE OKEZIE engaged the deputy leader of the movement, Sheikh Ya-aqup Yahaya Katsina, who has been standing in for El-Zakzaky since he was detained by the Federal Government in 2015, and he speaks about his long-standing relationship with the Shiites’ leader. He also explains why the sect visited the house of APC chieftain Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu and the disposition of the sect to conditional release for their detained leader
How did your relationship with Malam El-Zakzaky begin?
I met Malam El-Zakzaky around 1985. That time I was schooling in BUK (Bayero University, Kano). It was actually in BUK we met each other. He came to deliver a lecture to us, and from there, I understood what he was saying, and from there we continued to relate with each other.”
How much does El-Zakzaky’s absence affect the activities of your movement presently?
His absence in our midst remains the greatest problem, because he serves as father to us. And as you all know, if a father is not present in the eyes of his children, even if he has only travelled, if the trip took him so much time, the children will feel his absence badly, and they will get depressed or enter into critical situation.
Therefore, his absence in our amidst has generated serious concern to us. We have really become orphans, because whatever we faced as a challenge, we always used to contact him for the way out, and whatever we needed, he was the only one we asked.
Now that he is absent and not close, for me and him to exchange words has become difficult. I saw him last just two days to his arrest in Zaria city. And to God be the glory, he left behind everything for us regarding his programmes, teachings and ideology.
Praises be to God Almighty because we have held on to the majority of his teachings and ideology. God in his infinite mercy have kept us from going astray. We are still walking on his path rather than straying from the movement.
Do you think the violent protests you have embarked upon around the country can really facilitate the release of Malam El-Zakzaky? I think if our protest is termed or described as violent, it sounds like we have not been served justice, because Malam (El-Zakzaky) spent 40 years in this movement.
In Katsina alone, we have clocked 35 years in the movement and protest is not something uncommon. We all know that peaceful protest is a constitutional right of each and every Nigerian citizen to express his/her concern/feeling on a given issue that he/she is not happy with, and under normal circumstances, it is constitutionally acceptable.
On a more serious note, whenever someone wishes to embark on a protest, he should not step on another one’s toes or harm him in one way or the other, so there is nothing wrong. If I could vividly recall, there is a court order given by the Appeal Court a few years back with regard to politicians who have seriously been maltreated or denied right to procession to show their grievances, after which they later filed a suit seeking the court to interpret for them the constitutional provisions of the “protest/procession act.”
So, the Appeal Court proclaimed that and granted that you are given the right to embark on a protest without even seeking permission from the police unless you are afraid that something bad could happen. You go ahead and do so except you are scared that bad elements could come and hijack the protest for selfish interests. In that case, the police will only have the right to support you against any violence either with the words of mouth, through discussions, with tear gas, sticks or something similar to these.
In short, anywhere you see us doing something that later on leads to violence, it is the security operatives that must have masterminded or ignited it as a result of their presence. Yesterday, after performing Friday prayer by 2 pm, we held a protest in Katsina and its environs up till 4.30 pm without the presence of the security personnel. It was peaceful and successful.
But if the security personnel had followed us, it might have been a different story. It is high time the security operatives are given adequate orientation to understand the rights of citizens, and they should be told what to do. Processions should be monitored to oversee what is taking place. Some other times, there should be a leading team to take cover and act appropriately if the procession is turning into violence.
Our movement is not known to be violent at all, because even now that people continue to say that there was violence in Abuja, even the police have not agreed. The Force Public Relations Officer confirmed and noted that indeed, no Shi’ite member engaged in violence, neither did they take a single weapon, adding that the Shi’ites have even assisted the police.
The wounded police officers were taken and served medical attention by our Shi’ite members and later taken to where they work. This therefore implies that our movement is peaceful and not prone to violence. Moreover, in Kano, Katsina, Sokoto and almost everywhere including Lagos, people in their numbers come out to join the protest. People in Lagos really sympathised and observed that it was highly imperative for people to come and show their displeasure over the incident.
That’s what happened in short. We are not violent. There are times your movement abuses government when you have a misunderstanding with them. Why can’t you find a means to dialogue with the government and facilitate the release of Malam Zakzaky? You know it is not everything that you tell the press. But I have a lot to say regarding this question.
Some protesting Shiite members
The first time this issue happened, we went to the National Assembly and sat with the members of their committee. We have gone to the committee members several times, and even the government had been calling us for dialogue several times, which we have been attending.
As I am talking to you, our door is still open to dialogue with anybody, whether DSS, politicians, council members and many more. Frankly speaking, government is deceiving Nigerians on this issue and wants to satisfy its desire by treating and dragging its leg on the issue. Even after each and every dialogue we held, they understood that we always appeared innocent. And instead of them to accept and agree that it is true, they refused to comply with court rulings and appeals from well-meaning Nigerians and even from the National Assembly. So our door is open. We are ready. Not only we the followers, but also the man, Malam Zakzaky in detention is ready to accept whatever we agree on as condition for his release.
Maybe because he is the only one worst cheated, therefore he is ready to accept and embrace dialogue and hear Government’s side of the story. But the government seems not to be serious even if a dialogue is reached with it. People are saying that neighbours of Shi’ite members everywhere always face difficulty relating with them. How true is this? No, it is not true. It is the person that needs to be asked whether we have problems with them or not. Because if we say something, it will appear like we are praising ourselves.
But if you ask them, then you have the ability to arrive at an average opinion. But quite okay, you may find someone saying he is not happy neighbouring our members, because not all people are the same. But if you can get a hundred responses, check the average, you will see 75 or 80 per cent are quite happy cohabiting with us. We don’t have a problem with anybody. If anybody experiences a problem, it would not be from us but from him.
In the case of Katsina State, we initially began to stay at Unguwar Yari Quarters. When we left there to another location, from that very day, the residents counted their losses from thefts, because we provided security for the quarters while we were there. In this community where we relocated to, nobody had been in the position to leave his car or property outside, talk less leaving the lights on. But since we became part of this community, several neighbours from the beginning to the end leave open their doors and windows till daybreak.
Sometime last year, we planned to relocate from this community to somewhere else because it is too small for us, but some of the residents did not support or agree with us. You see? Your members had a misunderstanding with the Chief of Army Staff in Zaria the other time. Why couldn’t you prevent it before it happened? All I know, we Shi’ite members take steps. As people often say that the Chief of Army Staff was denied access road by our members in Kaduna, it is not true, because that is a road free to everyone.
That incident was fully masterminded by the military, because there is even a military school there. So, when they arrived, they saw that we were busy. And as usual, we do our programmes at about 4, 7 or 8 pm, and sometimes, it takes us up to 10 pm to control the movement of people. In recognition of the fact that it is the main road, we tried to deploy some of our members to supervise and direct the motorists using the road, regardless whether you are a soldier, police officer or civilian.
Nobody had complained. But on that faithful day since they already planned for it, they came along with their cameraman. And what’s more surprising was the presence of a white man in their convoy, inside a Sienna car. I wonder the kind of transaction that relates a white man with the Nigerian soldiers taking him up to Zaria? And also worthy of mention is that the military already planned to mix their people to camouflage as our members and achieve their target just to ignite violence.
The situation later became worrisome. The crown prince of Saudi Arabia had earlier in the past one year and few months, through a media based in America, told the world what happened between Nigerian authorities and the members of IMN.
He also informed the media of the directive by the Saudi Arabian government to bring down the strength and power of Iran in the African continents. He added in the interview that El-Zakzaky is trying to turn Nigeria into an Islamic state and that the Nigerian government is yet to deny this allegation. And and from that time to now, we are seeing some top government officials of Nigeria travelling to Saudi Arabia to receive orders. On the other hand, we are seeing members of Saudi government using governmental planes to journey to Aso Rock and Kano. In view of this, we have our evidence.
We have the speech of Buhari at the United Arab Emirates where he said “We cannot run government in government”. I think it is better to bring this issue to authorities for investigation before it was forwarded to court for action. My Question for Buhari is: “But you went to another country telling all this. Do you mean that the country directed you to do so? As I said, we have our evidence.
They don’t have any reason against us. Some people are saying that your sect should be declared a terrorist group. What is is your view on this? What is the meaning of terrorist? Up to now, the world has not reached a stage where it can call this terrorism. Why calling us terrorists? Why is it that those who carry weapons and declare a separate country in the Southern part of Nigeria were not recognised as terrorists? Why singling out IMN members who were peacefully talking about love and peace.
No religion directed the killing of human beings in the first place, whether he or she accepts your religion or not. Our religion says you should tell people good even if your religion differs. But if you told him something negative, you are disobeying the directive of the almighty Allah. All those who are calling for the declaration of IMN as a terrorist sect are unfair to us and are misdirected in their views.
What have we done that warrants us being branded terrorists? Were we found with weapons? We are not trying to make a coup. We are not holding weapons. We are not fighting with the government. We are only saying that government is cheating the masses on certain issues, and those who were cheated are saying it, we are saying it. Why should someone call us terrorists? What are terrorists? If you call Boko Haram, al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists, can you call us terrorists as well? Are we doing the same thing? Why should we be called terrorists? But everybody knows Al-Qaeda are terrorists. Taliban are terrorists.
Boko Haram are also terrorists. Why should El-Zakzaky sect be regarded as terrorists? Are we doing the same operation? Calling us terrorists is clear cheating. We have the right to practice the religion of our own choice as enshrined in the Nigerian constitution. No one can stop us. And those who are calling that we have to register with the government should know that we are not an association.
If we are an association, we will definitely register with government. We are a religious sect and religion is not being registered. And if you say so, can you ask those who are in the bush worshipping fire to register? Therefore, we are practicing a religion. Let us form an association so that you can ask us to register it. We thank God, in our own operations, we have various departments, including Ismam, which has the responsibility of healthcare.
We have our schools where we are teaching Islamic education. We have registered with the Ministry of Education. We have a newspaper which has been registered with the government. We also have Shu’adahu Foundation, which takes care of those who were injured and whose parents were killed as well as orphans; it has been registered with the government. What is the problem in all this? We also have registered with the Corporate Affairs Commission. The movement is just an ideology.
Can you register an ideology? What was your reason for taking your protest to the house of APC National leader Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu in Lagos? If you recall, Bola Ahmed Tinubu is a national leader and an elder. He has President Buhari’s ears. He has influence in Nigeria. He has influence in Nigerian politics. He knows how to unite people. If not because of all this, the APC could not have achieved the position where it is now. But because of his ideology, the APC has succeeded.
He is a right-thinking person. He knows how to relate with people. If not, the APC would have collapsed. He loves Nigeria and we want our people to love this country. It was because of all these we decided to meet him, maybe he was not aware of all the happenings about the case. We are sure that if he listens to us, he will play a vital role in settling the matter so that Nigeria will remain one and united entity.
Detaining Mallam El-Zakzaky will not help the country. It has brought nothing to Nigeria from the time he was detained till now. The security threats that they are talking about, did it reduce or increase? Did the country live in peace? There are lots of security challenges that have arisen in the country after the arrest of Malam, such as kidnapping, armed banditry and lots of them, yet the situation remain the same. So let’s release him and he will contribute in restoring security to the country. Even the emergence of Kanu, the leader of independent people of Biafra (IPOB), was after the arrest of Malam.
And to your surprise, they have their army. They have their weapons and uniforms of war. Do you think it was Malam that directed him? Malam El-Zakzaky is not a threat. His wife is Yoruba by tribe. Imagine a person from Zaria to go and marry a Yoruba. All his children have Yoruba blood. What is the problem in all this? Do you really think that President Muhammadu Buhari has the power to release him? Yes, he does, because it was he that detained him. Why will another country direct you to arrest and detain a citizen of your country? And you swear with a book you believe in that you will give everybody his own right and protect the right.
So if you say but it was America, Israel or Saudi Arabia that directed you to do so, it’s not on the right path. Therefore, why would you be a stooge to somebody? How much were you given to do so? What are your benefits on this? If it is America, Saudi Arabia or Israel, to us, we are blaming Buhari because Nigerian soldiers are under his power.
He is the commander-inchief. We do not see Israel soldiers; the police that are shooting us are Nigerians. Therefore, we are blaming him for all that happened. Why do you think the government has not released him despite a court order that he should be released? I think it is a psychological problem, because there are three arms of government which are the legislature, the executive and the judiciary.
The legislative and judicial arms have done their own part. It was only the executive that did not do their own part and he (Buhari) is the executive leader. The executive should not be seen to be playing with the lives of over 200 million people of the country, and it is not possible for them to be playing with Nigerian security.
The court also gave the same directive. I think Buhari has a hidden agenda on Mallam El- Zakzaky. He needs to change his stance so as to face God with faith. Assuming you are a friend to President Muhammadu Buhari what kind of advice would you give him on El-Zazaky? The first advice I will give him since he is a Muslim, even if he is not a Muslim, God is for everybody. He should fear God. That is number one. Let him not meet God with all these at his own age. He better seeks for Allah’s forgiveness at all cost. Let him allow the followers of Zakzaky to be happy so that God will be happy with him.
But everybody is crying with him; we are not the only ones who are crying. So, if I had any chance to be his friend, I would tell him to fear God because what he did was not on the right path. He should seek forgiveness. He should also tell the world the reasons behind the detention of El- Zakzaky so that people will agree with him or not. If not, we are saying that it was America, Saudi Arabia or Israel that directed him to do so. Let him tell the world that it was not them.
Let him confess that the crown prince of Saudi Arabia is lying against him. Since Buhari was sworn into office, Malam has commented publicly that Jonathan’s government had already passed away and the expectation was that this government would not allow a situation whereby soldiers are like enemies of the citizens during the Jonathan’s government, and we are advising them not to allow this to happen.
We hope this government will not be like the previous one because we have good expectations from it. I don’t think there is any religious faithful who fears what Malam is doing, because in the history of this country, there is no Islamic scholar who lives and be part of Christians like El-Zakzaky. Pastor Yohana said he is a Christian but his leader is El-Zakzaky. There are many of them. There is a reverend who came to condole with Malam in my presence. He said if he would become a Muslim, he would practice the one El- Zakzaky is practising, because Nigeria is for both Muslims and Christians.