What has life after power been like for you?
Life has always been the same thing it has been to me because nothing changed. I live in the same house; I stay in the same place. So, I’ve not lost anything. Since when I was governor, it’s the same house, the same bed that I’ve been sleeping. Life has been very busy for me; travelling from one continent to the other and being in almost all sectors of the economy. It has been very challenging to make ends meet.
What has losing the power to control Abia State meant to you?
I never had any power of running a state before. I was just a mere messenger of the people and I left happily. This is why I’m saying I never lost anything. As governor for eight years, I was just a messenger of the people and nothing has changed. This is the house I had when I was governor, and I have not changed the house or the chairs.
How would you respond to the allegation by your successor, whom you almost single-handedly installed, that you left virtually nothing behind and that he took the state almost from the scratch when he succeeded you?
I’m not going to discuss the governor. I’ll leave that aspect for the people of Abia to defend. I have tried since I left not to discuss him, whether privately or publicly. It has been a strong cause of my life not to discuss him. I leave that discussion to the people of Abia. The day I handed over to him, I told him to govern with his conscience and this is the same thing I’ve continued to say.
At what point did you really fall out with Governor Theodore Orji and why?
This is what I told you, and I say it again, I am not going to discuss that governor as a matter of principle.
But Orji has alleged that the main source of disagreement between you was the refusal of his government to sell some properties of the state in Lagos and your native Bende Local Government Area to you.
It is not true. This I can answer you straightaway. There is nothing like that. We were building a university at Igbere and the university people asked the government to lease the Umunnato General Hospital, which I refurbished when I was governor and nobody is using till today. It’s overgrown with weeds. You can send your correspondent in Umuahia to go and look at it. So they asked him to give them 50 years lease; lease with payment. I am not going to make any profit from Igbere – to the best of my knowledge. Why should I ask him to sell property to me? I was governor for eight years when they were doing privatisation. This is a man I told that there was no need to sell government property. If I wanted to buy government property, I was governor for eight years, I could have bought it. But it wasn’t my desire. I have been living in this house at Victoria Island since 1986. I have my office at Apapa since 1986.
In an interview in Washington recently, you spoke with displeasure about the current situation in PDP. Are you regretting your exit from the party?
No, no, no. I was just saying that because many people there are now big billionaires, most are using government money to buy private jets and numbering them outside the country. But these guys were nobody at all before. 1 and Musa Adede of Cross River State…we bought the first private jets in 1989. So if people who were nobody before now start calling others thieves, when they are the real thieves, it’s painful. It’s what I cannot understand. Nigeria is a community of jesters where people don’t really know what their problems are.
You were among those that founded PDP, which you left to almost single-handedly found PPA, but now you are not in any of the two parties. What does that says about your politics?
It just says a lot about the attitude of the Nigerian people who were not steadfast. I didn’t leave PDP: Obasanjo virtually drove me and Atiku away. I was deregistered by Obasanjo. I give God the glory; I don’t feel any harm because everything we do is vanity. I am standing on the solid rock. As far as I am concerned, Nigerian people have not shown commitment to democracy. Look at my governor, he worked for me. He knows that I am not a money man. If he will say the truth, which I know will come out one day; he knows I never asked anybody to do anything for money. If money were to be my problem, I would have followed Obasanjo because I had full access to him. My challenge in life is the people, not money. When anybody says I asked him not to work, the person is not being sincere. For instance, I own The Sun newspapers; I don’t interfere in their day-to-day job. I like process, I like system, and this is what most Nigerians lack because they were not prepared for leadership. Most people in positions of leadership in Nigeria today found themselves suddenly in the line of leadership. That is the problem Nigeria has today, people are not prepared for leadership.
Were you also driven out of PPA?
No. I left because democracy was no longer the process of choice, but force. People who do these things should be ready to face the consequences in future. If we want to come back to politics, it is either they do it right or everybody would be prepared to pay for it. It is disheartening that a lot of people who won elections are not where they have won elections. Apart from the South-west and some parts of northern Nigeria, democracy has not taken root at all. I am disappointed. This was not what we bargained for, which made me leave my business for politics. Nigerians, whether living or dead, will regret what is happening someday. Leadership is not about possessions, it is about the people. Once a leader cannot reconcile with the people, it becomes a problem.
What are your plans for the future?
You will soon see my plans; my plans are great.
What is your take on the preparations for the 2015 elections, especially with regards to the president’s silence over his intentions and the South-East’s agitation for the presidency?
Anybody who wants to run for the presidency should prepare to run. Why should they wait for anybody to tell them whether he will run or not. That is part of the things that are not right in our democracy. I want to discuss the president on performance, not on 2015, and he has said we should give him till 2013, that we would see wonders then. I would be patient till about September or October 2013 to be able to discuss him. I will discuss him fully because I’m not afraid of speaking my mind. I wanted to discuss him this time, but I saw in an interview when he said they should give him another one year to see the miracle that he would perform. But any person who is prepared to run for the presidency should not wait for anybody.
How will you rate President Jonathan who has been there since 2010?
I have not seen anything in terms of concrete performance, especially in the areas of security and infrastructure. Here in Victoria Island we are almost always on generator. The fundamental issue is the rule of law. Any president who wants to rule this country should respect the rules and give people justice. If there is no rule of law, there will be no society. The most fundamental issue in any good society for the people is the rule of law. A minister’s son who violates traffic law, for instance, should be penalised like any other Nigerian. Political armed robbers who took the country’s money should not be allowed to walk free. Governance is not about gossip. Once leaders start listening to gossip, they are failures already. People must run government by what the constitution says.
Do you think the South-east has been fairly treated with regard to access to the presidency?
The South-east has not been fairly treated. That is why when I see some Igbo people say they are waiting for Jonathan to decide whether he would run or not… Nobody should decide for anybody. As far as I am concerned, it is either you give Igbos the presidency or nothing. Almost 48 years after the civil war, you are telling people they are not entitled to rule Nigeria. Unless an Igbo man rules this country, the country would not be well. That is the truth because we are the salt of the nation. Whether you want to believe it or not, that is the truth. Anywhere you go in Nigeria and you don’t see an Igbo man living there, nobody lives there. So why don’t you give them the opportunity to rule their country? If it is not Panadol, it can never be anything that looks like Panadol. They have given Obasanjo, Yar’Adua, and Jonathan room to rule. Now is the turn of the South-east, it’s either the South-east or nothing.
But the Igbo do not seem to be united…
Who has had unity before? When they made Obasanjo president, were Yorubas united? When they made Yar’Adua president, were the northerners united? You people should stop deceiving the Igbos. This nonsense should stop. They would say Igbo people like money, who does not like money? The election of 2011 was effectively put together by some prominent northerners, they collected money. So who does not like money?
Do you think the Igbo currently have a strategy for the attainment of their presidential dream?
I know the national appeal is there. I am going to play a leading role within my community to organise people for what Igbos are going to do. I wanted to be totally out of politics, but I’m going to sit back in my house and be part of their planning. I will plan for them and give them to go and execute. Awolowo wasn’t a president but he was a very important man in Nigeria. I’m sitting back to help give the Igbos what they don’t have: planning. I’m going to reconcile those who are quarrelling and get one of them to lead. will get it right this time.
Have you identified such a person with the qualities you desire for a Nigerian president of Igbo origin?
They would emerge on their own. But give me some months to be able to consult. The most important thing is the process that gets who would run for president. The president is just a by-product of unity. What I’m talking about is to kick-start the process. I have to go back to the drawing board, go back to the academics, traders, politicians, etc, and re-energise them to move forward.
Do you see yourself as a potential Igbo leader, perhaps, in the mould of the late Chukwuemeka Odumegwu-Ojukwu?
I purposely kept away when Ojukwu died because his burial became an avenue for sycophancy. People who abused Ojukwu in my presence, people who never believed in him were praising him in death. I was surprised. That was why I sent a delegation to extend my condolences and I didn’t go. When Ojukwu was alive, they abandoned him. Most of these people who were talking abandoned him. Ojukwu’s brothers are there, they can speak because they know how close I was to him. They know I always tried to be with him at any point of his need.
PDP has embarked on a mission to reconcile its former members. If you are approached, would you be ready to return to PDP?
Well, I don’t think so. I don’t think I am talking about party politics now. If I want to play party politics, I would play it in PPA. People cannot always leave when the condition is not good, people should also be there to defend the situation when the condition is bad. I’m not talking party politics now; I’m talking about advising everybody in Igbo land. I want to energise the base. In the next couple of months, I would put in motion the process.
You said you don’t to talk about Governor Theodore Orji?
I don’t want to say anything, whether good or bad. Orji is there today as governor of Abia State. I know the value of the office of the governor. I know the value of the position of former governor of Abia State; I know the value of the office of the president. And I say I am not going to talking about it. They have published and said a lot of things.
But I know that the allegation that nothing was done during my tenure is wrong. Almost all the roads in the state were constructed in my tenure. The Umuahia-Aba road (old road), the Obehie-Azumiri road, the Lokpanta-Udeato road, the Ebem-Ohafia road, all were constructed in my tenure. When I was governor, the Aba roads were motorable. I don’t want to talk about these things. I want the governor to lead the people with his conscience. Conscience is a wound, only the truth can heal it. People are seeing today, they are not seeing tomorrow. I want Nigerians to start seeing tomorrow.
Go back to your archives. Obasanjo made me the action governor for that regime on account of the Aba roads that I constructed. He came to Aba and campaigned on those roads. Anywhere in the world, roads are maintained every two to three roads, if not, they will collapse. I cleaned up Aba. I like to be modest in my comments and allow our people to decide who is right or wrong. When I was governor, we had free education up to the secondary school level. When I was governor, there were problems in Warri, Rivers, parts of Akwa Ibom, Owerri and Nnewi. People were coming to Aba and Umuahia to live and do their businesses. Nobody has given me credit for all these things because I fought the federal government. I’m the only politician that his businesses were taken. What have I done to these people? I had helped them in the past. I have asked the international agencies to set up a real anticorruption outfit, let us know who the real thieves are. I’m ready to subject myself to the probe, and others, too, should come out. People have been given a lot of waivers, etc. The country is in trouble, it needs to be cleaned up properly. It needs to be given direction.
You are among the former governors that are being prosecuted by EFCC. Are you saying the charges against you are trumped up?
My conscience tells me that I have not done anything. I have never discussed with anybody on how to make underhand deals. What I have spent is security vote, which is not much for the size of our state. I applied it to the police and they were happy with what I did with the money. I am the only governor that is being prosecuted for security vote. Even the present governor knows that we were not making deals. Check the calibre of commissioners that I had – Awa Kalu (SAN), Lambert Mmecha, Professor Nkpa (present Secretary to the State Government), Professor Ogbuagu (currently a vice chancellor), Onyekwere Ogba, Ralp Egbu, etc. I will set up a foundation that will deal with the issue of anti-corruption. Material acquisition is not my problem, but jobs for the people. Nobody is talking about creating jobs for the people. Nobody talks about how to build a strong middle class that will be the engine of the society. A population of 160 million people still talking about repairing old rail lines! We must re-strategise on how to build standard rail lines.
I told the federal government, when I was governor, what they were doing in the power sector that would not work. I gave him a blueprint on how we can have electricity in Nigeria. It is criminal for anybody to think you can draw power from Egbin power station to Abia State, or you will draw light from Lagos to Ebere-Omuma in Rivers State, or draw from Cross River to give light in Sokoto. We have to have cells. Distribution is a problem. Even if you generate, what of distribution? I told them, but nobody listens. Have you forgotten how they kept Abia contractors at EFCC for nine months auditing their books, when I was governor? Which other governor did they do this to? Have you forgotten how they invaded my mother’s house to force me to support them for their third term agenda? I resisted it. I disagreed with Professor Jubril Aminu, a very strong character, as students’ union president, and still eat with him. But that is what Obasanjo does not like. Because I disagreed with him over Third Term, Obasanjo took away all my businesses, he killed my businesses, he tried to ruin me but God did not allow him. If he were patient he would have benefitted from people like us. I used to be Obasanjo’s best friend, but I never knew he doesn’t like hearing the truth.
What would you say is the legacy you left in Abia after eight years as governor?
All the low-cost housing schemes in Abia State were built by my government. The Ehimiri housing estate, the two stadiums in the state, were built by my administration. The housing estate at Obingwa had been roofed before we left, even the one at Obakala, apart from the housing estate at Ubeku. Mind you, our resources then were lean – Obasanjo took away our 46 oil wells, which Yar’Adua returned. $650 million was deducted from the state’s allocations to repay money from the wells. I gave Abia people purposeful leadership. Go to the Federal Ministry of Finance and check how much we had from 1999 to 2007.
I never left any debt for Theodore Orji as governor. I want this to be on record. I left no debt the day I was leaving as governor of Abia State. I’ve heard people say I owed banks N28 billion before I left. That is not true. We were only banking with Hallmark. Hallmark stopped, and we went over to Bank PHB. The day I left, the account was N1.7 billion in overdraft, because Obasanjo asked the Ministry of Finance to hold the money. On June 6, 2007, the overdraft cleared. The documents are there for anybody to verify. I never owed any bank money, which some people now say Abia State is repaying. This is the first time I am coming openly to say this.
Well, in the process of governance, I’m not saying I was perfect. Wherever I have wronged our people, I’m very sorry for wronging them. Wherever I have done well, they should also praise me for doing well. I’m not perfect, even Jesus Christ was not perfect. I’m human. I must have made several mistakes in Abia as a young man. I wasn’t 50 years old when I was governor. Today, I’m 50 and above. So I know more things that are right and wrong today.
