WE understand that you have been working on a book for some time now…
(Laughs) The writing proper has taken well over 10 years. It has gone through three drafts within that period. But again, it is an expansion of my master’s degree thesis which I wrote between 1989 and1990 at the University of Ibadan. The topic then was about television communication and culture. But that opened the horizon for me in the knowledge of culture.
First, I found out that there is a general misunderstanding and, to some extent, ignorance about culture. Everywhere around the world, people have taken culture to mean just entertainment, literature, religion, as separate from science and technology. Of course, the West is giving that impression. In my book, I refer to an American professor who actually said that science and technology belong to the West, while Africa has culture in quantum. So, this has been a deliberate thing to make people all over the world believe that science and technology are different from culture, whereas it is science and technology that drive culture which actually drives nation building.
And in every cultural community, there exists embedded technology. That is, all the systems that operate in the West are also the systems that operate in any other culture in Africa. But it has to be indigenous to those cultures. African nations, for instance, should have got involved in using their culture, their indigenous sciences, indigenous technology, indigenous languages and indigenous education to build their countries and the continent. But as a result of the continuity of colonization and neo-colonisation of the African continent by Arab and Western culture, there is a divide in African countries along the line of religion. It is either they are Christians or they are Muslims. And traditional religion, of course, has been driven underground.
Do you foresee a change in that arrangement in the future?
There has to be if we are willing to actually develop. That is because national development can only be done by sustainable development and has to be carried out by the people who belong to that culture. The bane of underdevelopment in Africa is neo-colonization, in particular, globalisation which is purely Western culture, Western technology, Western language, Western education, and Western religion and so on. That is the system that has been globalised along with Arab culture. And both cultures have been on a perpetual struggle for the soul and minds of Africans and the African environment with both cultures permeating everything in Africa. And I am sorry to say that underdevelopment will continue in Africa, as long as this kind of system is allowed to persist.
Do you see the possibility of African culture emerging from these two other domineering cultures?
Oh, it is going to be a tough job. As a matter of fact, an uphill task. But it has to be done, if indeed we want to develop Africa. It cannot continue to be foreign investments, foreign intervention and foreign systems. All these are in the interest of the owners, that is, in the interest of the foreigners. There has not been sustainable development for Africa. But then, they turn around and accuse us whereas it is the imposition of their culture that has made us to be underdeveloped.
Do you see the people of Africa or rather do you see African governments liberating Africa from such foreign clutches?
I see the people forcing the government to liberate Africa, if the government is not ready to do so. For instance, it is the government, politicians that invite foreigners into African cultures, especially European culture, French culture, American, Arab and Chinese culture. But at the same time, African leaders seem to be coming together to say that this is a challenge for all of us.
But African governments have shown little or no effort to ensure that cultural imQperialism is exterminated or expunged from our system, that is, remove it from our culture. And that is the main thing.
Are you suggesting that you are seeing a possible recolonisation of Africa?
(Grins) Unfortunately, it is on. It has been on for long. It is increasing more and more. But if the government and the leadership, I mean the entire leadership of Africa, fails to lead the people, I mean fails to lead the entire masses in bringing about the real cultural development on the continent, I see the peoples of Africa taking over, forcing the governments into a revolutionary cultural development, first in nation building and then in continental development.
Americans are here in Nigeria because of the Chibok girls who must be rescued…
Yes, I would say that they are here under the pretext of rescuing the girls. They are fully here with their troops.
What do you think could happen other than rescuing the Chibok girls?
Boko Haram is another form of Al Qaeda. It is another form of ethno-religious rebellion, or group rebels all over the world. What Boko Haram is doing is not new in the world; it is only new in Nigeria. It has been extended into Nigeria. I see it as an unofficially declared third world war, with scattered battle fields. They are now in Nigeria, Egypt, Libya and Central Africa. That is what is happening. Every day, things are happening in that direction.
Do you see it ending?
Yes, it can end if the world powers withdraw afterwards. That is because they are not here in the interest of Africans; they are here in their own interests, for control or economic benefit. That is what is happening in every other place. So, let them leave afterwards. I think it was wrong in the first place to give them a formal, official invitation to come and help. They are not helping anyone. This is the thing they have been waiting for. It is their design. It is not just about the West, it is also about the Arab world. They have been on this conflict for centuries. It dates back in centuries; the fight for domination. It is in the Bible. It is in the Quran. It has been. It dates back to B.C. That is what has continued till now. That is what has metamorphosed into Al Qaeda activities, Boko Haram insurgents and the rest of it.
You are also an actor…
People know me more as an actor which began in 1968 when I left the seminary to join The Village Headmaster cast. I was in the seminary, both junior and major, in Ibadan. I was trained to be a Catholic priest. I was actually going to be a Catholic priest. If I had been, you would have been talking to a Reverend Father on a higher status. I am probably more popularly known as an actor.
I started professional acting in 1968. I then became an employee of Television Broadcasting in 1969. I started as a programmer and went on to become a producer/director. I got trained here and abroad. That was what I did before I was pushed out of NTA by Ben Bruce. He was a man who came to learn about television at the level of a Director-General. You can imagine! He was into entertainment and beauty pageant, which we assisted him to popularise. He is my aburo (younger brother). He calls me egbon (elder brother). His father was actually the one that was my friend and I got to know about Ben Bruce at his father’s 70th birthday some years ago before the father died.
So, I am a producer/director, a movie-maker. I produced CockCrow at Dawn which was an all-location shooting movie for television in a quiet, peaceful village in Jos where we shot the movie.
One of your passions is also music…
I have also been into music! I did a study of music while I was at the seminary. I used that knowledge more in the church. I was the Choir Master General at St Anthony’s Catholic Church, Gbaja. I have been in many professional music bodies like Steve Rhodes Voices, Laz Ekwueme’s ensemble, Ayo Bankole’s Snr. ensemble, Adam Fiberesima Choir.
I do sing, though no more in a choir. But I do sing at ceremonies like a funeral. I could sing a Yoruba dirge. At a funeral mass, I could sing any of the Latin songs and other versions of the requiem mass. I have actually been singing right from my childhood days. Singing in those days came natural to me.
Dejumo that I bear is a short form of Adejumoke! I used to sing with it and dramatise. I used to go round as a three-year-old in the estate, singing songs like Jumoke ye di e, Jumoke ju di e, Robo robo roboto le nu Jumoke. Akara gbigbono, ni an je ni owuro, robo robo roboto le nu Jumoke o.’ And people in appreciation, even my elder relatives and our tenants used to give me money. Of course, my parents used to collect the money from me and bought me things.
What kind of background do you have?
Oh, we were the middle class. That is, from my parents’ side, though my family has an aristocratic foundation from where my grandfather came in Ekiti. Actually, the place is called Erijiyan-Ekiti, and the family has a dynasty there. It is close to the popular spring water.
Was it the aristocratic part of it that brought about the kabiyesi role you played in The Village Headmaster?
I don’t know. But I once asked the pioneer producer/director who is today the Olowu of Owu, Oba Adesanya Dosunmu…
You mean the late Ambassador Segun Olushola was not…
(Cuts in) The late Ambassador Segun Olushola was the creator. He got the concept, but the man who actually put flesh on the skeletal work was Oba Adesanya Dosumu. He did a lot of the productions and packaging. I once asked him what he saw in me, though I knew I was a young dashing man in those days. I was fresh from the seminary and was always in suits. I had also done some little roles in the series much earlier.
One day, he gave me a script; it was that of the new role of Oloja of Oja which had just been introduced then. I read it and afterwards, he said that the role was mine; that I should get ready for the recording as Oloja of Oja. I had to then do some serious work on the character. I was given a few lines on the character which I had to develop. It was mine to develop the character and wear it. After the first few recordings, there was a great applause in the studio.
So the aristocratic thing rubbed off on you?
I have always been myself, I like carrying myself with dignity like my father. I know I have always had a swagger. My father had it. I got that from him. These things were there. It got to a point I wasn’t conscious about it anymore; I had to just be myself. I had to be me. And that helped a lot.
How long did you continue with the character?
It was for as long as the programme lasted, even when it was my official duty to produce and direct it from 1984 to 1988. Of course, I had some other assistants who could direct while I was on set, acting out my role as the Oloja of Oja. So I asked Oba Adesanya Dosumu what he saw in me. His reply then was: ‘What I saw in you is the same thing I saw in the 16 traditional rulers that I promoted to first class Oba.’ That was what he did when he became the new Olowu of Owu which was very controversial then in his domain.
Maybe he saw some kind of royalty in me, but I don’t know. But I was more sophisticated in looks by western standard in dressing, and other appearances and in everything that I was doing, until I got into cultural research and then decided to live according to the outcome of my research.
Did that character of kabiyesi follow you out of the set?
(Laughs) For me, there was no conscious attempt to carry over the role from the series to real life. As a matter of fact, I made sure that I did all the acting on stage, television, movie or radio only. In real life, I am down to earth. I am always real. I have never had any illusion that I am that character in real life!
How did your role as kabiyesi on set affect your family in real life?
My family used to be excited! In fact at my children’s school at that time, they were in primary school then, the teachers used to refer to them as princes and princesses. When I got to know about that, I had to sit them down and tell them that the princes and princesses thing was television! I told them that they were not different or better than the children of the bicycle repairers they saw on the roads. I told them not to let it go to their heads.
It didn’t stop there. I had to apply that same exercise on myself too! At a time, I couldn’t walk on the streets of Lagos because whenever I did and was recognised, oh it was a different scenario with people all over me. And my parents were given the honour of being recognised as the parents of the Kabiyesi. Favours were being done for my mother! And even for my other relations. I had to sit myself down to exercise caution, especially coming from the background of the seminary where we were always conscious of being modest, and where we were usually told that when you are successful, you do not let it run into your head. So I had to tell myself that I am nothing more than other ordinary human beings, and that helped me a lot.
For one who was that popular, it must have been natural for the female folk to flock around you. How were you able to curtail them?
(Laughs) Curtail? Yes, because they were so many. I think I had my choices, even after I was married. I had to make up for the lost time in the seminary. You know I spent 10 years of my life in the seminary! Yeah, I had some good friends. There is no denying it. I did.
So what took you to the seminary and why did you not end up as a priest?
Wow! As a child, it is just like today, I saw a gap in the classes, particularly people who came from the hinterland and those who were tenants in my grandfather’s estate. Some of their children weren’t going to school; they were not well catered for. I wasn’t comfortable with the class divide. I didn’t know them, but I saw them as human beings. And I saw that I was going to school with my siblings and other relations, but these other children weren’t going to school. My heart kicked against that.
Also, one of the catch for me in the seminary was the fact that I loved music and drama right from my childhood. The church provided an outlet for that because the church had this ritualistic organisation and performances at worship services. Part of it is the art of genuflection and so on. This attracted me, but much later, I stumbled into cultural research. I went deep into it at a time when the Catholic Church was talking about identifying the church with the culture of the people where it is located. But then, the research also took me into traditional religion.
At a time, I began studies into Ifa, and therein I made a lot more of discoveries. My research at a point became contrary to some information as reflected in Catholicism and one had to give way for the other. I left because of the conflict. My leaving did not actually stop me from being a Catholic. I went on to become a staunch Catholic.
Soon to be 71, and you are still active…
Yes, I am. Apart from the book that I have been writing, I still have the cultural research part of me. I do research work and I am the Chief Associate at DL & Associate, a company that is into communication consultancy
