Edo State-born elder statesman and former two-term senator, Kassim Oyofo, warns of an impending storm that will soon sweep through the nation’s capital, Abuja, and wipe out the corrupt leaders in charge of the nation’s administration. Taking a critical look at the state of the nation, the 78-year-old chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and former National Leader of the Grail Movement in Nigeria believes that divine judgment is imminent for the nation’s leaders that are not living above board. He spoke with Kayode Fasua

 

What is your assessment of the state of the nation?

I appreciate this opportunity to talk about Nigeria. To do justice to your question, I need to do a search that will make what is happening in Nigeria and elsewhere in the world understandable. This searching requires me to go into what is generally called spiritual. You call it spiritual because that is the way people like to talk. But life itself is spiritual. To go straight to the point, Nigeria, like every other place in the world, is now standing in the world judgement otherwise called the Last Judgment. Unless people understand it this way, they will not make a head or tail of what is happening. In a simple sentence, the last judgment is about to bring to an end all that is wrong on earth, and everyone who harbours evil will receive not only the fruit of evil, but may go finally with evil, and may be destroyed.

The content of the final judgment is not new. It is in all religious books, whether you call it the Bible or the Quran, or whatever else people have as coming from God. All human beings have been warned for thousands of years about what is now happening, but the warnings have fallen on deaf ears. And even now that it is happening, many people cannot correlate it, and this is why their confusion gets greater and greater.

Now, talking about Nigeria in particular, the country’s situation is very, very important because Nigeria has a role to play in global affairs. This means that the purification of Nigeria must take precedence and it must be thorough, to use the human word. Everything that is wrong must be destroyed. I use the word ‘must’ because that is exactly what will happen: whether it has to do with religion, economy, politics or anything you can think of.  The important thing is Nigeria must be purified. On the surface, you may call it herdsmen attacks. You may call it Igbo against Hausa or Yoruba against whoever. This is just the surface of it. The kernel of it is that what is wrong must be destroyed, and there is something wrong in everything.

Specifically, what are the problems that pose grave danger…

(Cuts in) Very many. But let me finish with the general picture. The purification process would be carried out by nature, not just by people. Let me say this: a great rain will fall in Nigeria, in Abuja in particular, which will last for 10 days and 10 nights. By the time the rain gets through with Abuja, what is left will be pure. Everybody who has a hand in what is wrong, whether they do it in private or in public, will be washed away along with what he acquired. It will be so devastating that it will be like an eyesore with total destruction. But that will be the beginning of the new Nigeria. And Abuja will be rebuilt at the command of God. I have been talking about it, especially since 2016, but people think it is something not to bother about.

But that will be the beginning of the new Nigeria. And the city, after, will change its name to ‘The City of Light’, and it will be the central focus of many people in the world. So, it is what you are seeing that is troubling you. These are just the initial signs of the great things that are to happen. Nigerians, after the purification, will be very proud of themselves and the world will be proud of them.

So, what you see now is the effervescence. Nigerians have not yet seen what is coming. What they are complaining about is just minor. So with that, the general picture which will affect mainly Abuja will affect the other parts of the country as well. But this is where it is going to begin, because right now, Abuja is the sin capital of Nigeria.

The sin capital of Nigeria? Meaning Abuja will be completely destroyed?

It will not be destroyed like (the biblical) Sodom and Gomorrah, but it will be wiped clean. Let us put it that way, because the Light has a hand in the Abuja issue. So it will become the City of Light as it will be called in future. But like I said, Abuja, after the destruction, will be rebuilt with resources from all over the world, and it will wear a new look.

When you talked about rain falling for 10 days and 10 nights, were you just being philosophical?

No, no. I mean rain, the rain that falls from the sky. And it will carry many things. Rivers will run in Abuja. There will be total confusion. I’m not joking.

You said everything that is wrong must be destroyed. What are the things that are wrong with Nigeria?

We will now come back to the details. Take what you popularly know as corruption. You know that the only Nigerian who is not corrupt today is the one without opportunity. So, when people talk of corruption, they think of politicians such as governors, ministers or the President. Yes, those are at the top of the heap of corruption. But the civil servants themselves are all very, very corrupt. They are so corrupt that they stink. Nigerians are so corrupt that they will take the money in their country to another country. You carry millions or maybe billions to Dubai, you buy houses that you will never occupy; or to the United States of America or perhaps Russia.

All over the world, Nigerians do the same thing. They go to Brazil, anywhere. They carry their country’s wealth to another man’s country. One, in those countries, they are not even regarded with anything honourable. They are treated on the fringes of respectability. So they go there and cannot walk the streets with pride. They approach the banks where they keep these monies with trepidation in their heart, because the rules might change. Their children cannot boast that this is their father’s money, because they cannot prove the source of the money. So are those kinds of people not sick? Are they human beings? So, you can see why there is going to be purification. Purification is meant to restore justice. It is caused by the due justice of God.

When President Muhammadu Buhari was campaigning for office in 2015, ‘war against corruption’ was his mantra. Six years on, how has he fared?

I won’t make any statement that would amount to judging Buhari, because like I have already said, the only Nigerian who is not a thief is the one without opportunity. Buhari cannot supervise everybody in his office. As the monkey said, the only child she can guarantee didn’t steal the corn is the one in her stomach. If Buhari has a hand in anything wrong, he will pay for it. There is nobody that won’t pay, including myself. It has nothing to do with whether you are APC or PDP or whatever.

If you take any money that does not belong to you, whether you are a minister, governor or President, and you divert the money meant for the people, all the sufferings of those people will be on you. When we talk about corruption in Nigeria, it’s more insidious. If these stupid people knew what is awaiting them, they would rather choose to be poor.

How would you rate the agitation by the Yoruba  to secede and form Oduduwa Republic, citing unchecked atrocities from Fulani herdsmen and other unfair treatments?

Let me make a statement here for all Nigerians. Nobody can break Nigeria. Be you Yoruba, Igbo, all; they are just talking. What is coming in the hand of God is justice. What is lacking in Nigeria is justice. When you are just, people are happy with themselves and with you. If there are 10 things in the country and I give seven of them to my brothers, am I just? The justice of God is now on earth. People don’t understand the significance of that statement, and it’s beginning from Nigeria.

 Politically, what do you foresee?

Politically, Nigeria will be restructured along the zones. The reason it’s going to be so is that each zone has something unique on its own, which it contributes to the whole. So, whether you call it true federalism or whatever nomenclature you want to use, it just means the groups of people recognising themselves as part of a family, contributing what they can, for the mutual benefit of the family. It is not now that they are all serving Lucifer. Everybody is operating at the expense of the other.

 What have you to say on Nigeria’s worsening security situation?

On the surface, the government should wake up. They took up an assignment by swearing with the Bible or the Quran to protect lives and properties. They should do it to the best of their ability. As for internal security, the state police system is a necessity, as Nigeria is under-policed. The Federal Police has been skewed, made to mean something else. Police service has to be a neighbourhood thing. With it, the police are close to the people and strange faces in any community can easily be fetched out for verification. So if a government cannot check evil, then the government is evil. It’s not politics, it’s just straightforward common sense.

Regarding insurgency, how can an army not be able to flush out insurgents from Sambisa Forest? The only reason is that they are corrupt. Corruption is playing its own part in the military set up. You will hear stories that they have superior weapons. Why should a legitimate government not be able to buy superior weapons and criminals are buying? Certainly, Sambisa Forest cannot be outside Nigeria. It is a shameful act.

 How would you rate the performance of the National Assembly after you left the scene?

The worst part of the National Assembly is that the former governors came to the Senate so that they can hold the President to ransom. Again, they have not proved to be assertive on issues of ethics as one would expect. For instance, how can the Senate stand up on its own when the Deputy Senate President, Ovie Omo-Agege, brought himself so low as to be genuflecting for Buhari in the public? Deputy Senate President prostrating for the President? In the public? So can that one check and balance anything? That is terrible.

As part of the efforts to find solutions to the insecurity that is plaguing the country, Nigeria’s 17th Inspector-General of Police, Suleiman Abba, who is also the Chairman of the Police Trust Fund, shares his thoughts with select journalists, declaring, among other things, that it is wrong to negotiate with criminals and explaining why kidnapping and banditry are on the rise. He also suggested that the Federal Government should merge the Nigeria Police Force, the Federal Road Safety Commission (FRSC), the Civil Defence Corps and the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency (NDLEA) to solve the security challenges. Our Managing Editor Northern Operation, YUSUF ALLI, was there.

 

There is an upsurge in the level of insecurity in the country to the level that the police are now overwhelmed. The responsibilities of your board cut across welfare, equipment, capacity building and other things that could enhance their ability to perform. Unfortunately, it has been one year and we haven’t heard anything. What have you been doing?

Let me first admit the fact that it has been a year since the Board of Trustees of the Police Trust Fund was inaugurated in line with the provisions of the law. But it is not that it has been quiet since its inauguration. I hope you understand the provisions of corporate governance where responsibilities are shared in government. You have the board and you have the management with clearly defined responsibilities.

If you are talking about the board, it has done well, particularly by giving a level playing ground to enable the police to have the support of its budget to have modern equipment, training of its personnel and for it to be able to execute projects that would improve the welfare of their personnel. The board has gone very far. In fact, I’ll say it has almost succeeded in its mission as provided by the law. The board is responsible for putting in place the structure necessary for the take-off of the trust fund, and it has done that. We have the management that has been provided with the necessary staff. We brought in KPMG, and it was able to give us the advisory techniques that enabled us to form a modern structure of governance.

We have a structure wherein the board has committees to support the management to meet up with its own responsibilities. We have gone far enough to the extent that before the end of last year, we were able to pass the budget and also secure its passage by the National Assembly. We have done that as well to the 2021 budget. So, if we have done these to the 2020, 2021 budgets, including getting it passed by the National Assembly, I think the remaining is procurement, and procurement is mainly the responsibility of the management. If there are problems, we all have a stake, let us know, we can see where we can come in.

In specific terms, how are you addressing the problems facing the police?

Except you want me to repeat what I have said. Maybe you need to get to know how far the procurement has gone. Supporting the police cannot be done without disbursement of funds. Let’s say for training and retraining, this cannot be done without disbursement of funds, and other activities that are needed for the welfare of personnel. These are areas that are beyond my capacity, except you want me to find out and let you know.

So you are not pushing for procurement waiver in view of the urgency?

This I still repeat, only the management can answer you. I want to believe that if they have any problem in that regard, they would have referred to me. If you tell me that there are, I’m taking note and I’ll take it up.

The trust fund is supposed to get money from different places, including companies, Federation Account and all that, because the law is there. The budget is also not difficult to come by, but what about the money? Are you enjoying the cooperation of all the stakeholders? I want to say that you are not unaware of the problems of some of the governors who are of the view that they shouldn’t be deducting from the Federation Account for the Trust Fund. But I must tell you that since there’s a law for that to take place, it is taking place. And like I told you, we have done a budget and we’ll appropriate it.

Like how much?

If you want specifics, you will have to meet the management because the Secretary/CEO is the accounting officer that has the updated account of what we have.

Incidentally, some of the governors who are not cooperating are bearing the brunt of banditry and other criminal activities in their states…

I’m glad that you are the one saying it, because I have said so too. Some of them were protesting. Who is against the police? Who doesn’t want security?

Have you entered into dialogue with the Nigeria Governors’ Forum?

I have had meetings with the Governors’ Forum and the understanding is that we’ll use what we have. And then the deductions have not stopped and we’ll use funds judiciously. We have the responsibility to let all stakeholders know what is happening, and that’s why I received you this afternoon to be able to let you know what is going on. And as far as the Board of Trustees is concerned, we have done what is expected of us and we are to also support the management in that regard.

Is the management not supposed to be answerable to the board?

If you believe there are problems, then the onus lies on you to find out and you should let us know if there’s any. But I must tell you, if there are problems in procurement, from precedent, you should look for where the problem is coming from. It cannot certainly come from the board. We have passed the budget and we have given the management the wherewithal to execute their responsibilities. If they are having problems or if there were delays, you’re the one to find out and then let us know.

Does your board believe that all is well with the police?

The board has no power to assess the police. This is not the Police Service Commission. This is a board that is there to do everything possible to support the police to function properly.

Do the police have enough support?

(Laughs) You are still asking me to repeat all I have said. You know, establishing a new organisation requires a lot of funds, and going by the law, the board has a lot of responsibilities in many regards — providing offices, providing personnel and passing the budget — and that it has done. Having done ours, you’re talking about procurement and disbursement of funds, which is the responsibility of the management. If there are delays…I hope what happened to NNDC is not what is happening to the management of the Trust Fund. It is left to the management to tell us. If the ministry is perhaps giving them problems, we should know and we’ll be able to deliver our responsibilities in that regard.

What about the recruitment of personnel?

The recruitment is of two types. If you go to Section 17 of the Act, it says the Trust Fund can source for personnel either by secondment or by appointment. Due to the state of things in the country, particularly at the time we came in when COVID-19 was on the high, the government had stopped recruitment, and I think that is still in force. In view of that, we were directed to go for secondment, and it is the secondment that I’m talking about.

So you haven’t recruited any staff?

Not at all. Those seconded cannot say they’re redundant. You’re employed in a ministry and you’re also seconded somewhere to do a job.

As the chairman of the board, you’re there to oversee the management. Are you satisfied with the performance of the management? To us, some of the things we are expecting to see are not there. So, are you satisfied as the chairman of the board?

I don’t believe it if you say nothing is happening. A lot is happening. I still want to tell you that procurement procedures in this country are a bit difficult, and that is why the Trust Fund is an intervention fund. It ought not to go through the same cumbersome procurement procedures that are in existence. But the board has a limit to which it can push its own wishes. We have done our own and we have even met with the Attorney-General of the Federation and he gave us his support by agreeing that the Trust Fund ought not to go through these cumbersome procedures.

Why can’t you ask for a waiver?

This is what I’m telling you. If that (waiver) does not go through, I think you’ll need to find out what is going on.

What we are saying is that as a board, have you written for a waiver?

Well, there’s no way you can do procure ment for security gadgets without a waiver. Certainly, there are waivers going on.

So, what is your assessment of the board and the management in the last one year?

Believe me, it is satisfactory. I know it is the first time they are getting involved in procurement. It is the first time they’re getting involved in the disbursement of funds, but I still want to repeat that if there are problems or delays, maybe there are interferences somewhere; maybe you and I need to check.

As an insider, can you suggest what needs to be done?

What needs to be done is: if they have problems, they report to the board.

Have they reported?

Nobody has reported any issue with regard to procurement.

As a former IGP, what is your assessment about police being presently targeted for attacks by hoodlums?

My general assessment of the situation where policemen are attacked is disturbing. It is unimaginable to me that there is distrust between the police and certain parts of the society, particularly a part that doesn’t have regard for law or respect for government; the part that doesn’t care about the security of their kinsmen and other members of the society. It is most unfortunate. The police in every part of the world carry the burden of protecting the lives and properties of the people. Sometimes, they pay the supreme price in doing so. I don’t see any reason whatsoever, I repeat, I don’t see a reason whatsoever that’ll be enough to make any part of the society, no matter how disgruntled they are, to be attacking police structures and sometimes even attacking police personnel.

What’s the solution?

The solution is that anybody involved in any crime at all should be made to pay for his actions. And I think that’s where we missed it. For almost a decade now, we have been having problems with organised crimes. Some of them we’ve been living with for a long time. I’m talking about armed robbery and perhaps kidnapping. Some of them are very new and that’s when we talk about organised banditry and other heinous crimes, including insurgent activities of the Boko Haram. We missed it because we’ve not taken the issue of prosecution seriously. People with criminal records, when I say records, I mean people who have gone into the crime, get arrested, get investigated are either being prosecuted very slowly or are not being prosecuted at all when in the actual fact of it, we should be seeing convictions; we should begin to call them criminals after conviction so that it’ll serve as deterrent to others. But that has not been the case.

When I say this, I mean it is this particular crime that I am talking about: violent and organized crimes. I believe that’s where we missed it. Unless we take this seriously, whether through an ad hoc arrangement or other alternatives, and it doesn’t require much, we will continue to live with these crimes. There’s what we call accelerated prosecution. Why don’t we do some kind of task force activities? We begin to prosecute them in an accelerated manner so that people will see that when you commit an offence, you pay the price. That is what is done even in the advanced world, and that’s why people respect the law.

But we are descending into negotiations with bandits. What’s your take on that?

I don’t take time to think over it. I don’t see how you should negotiate with criminals, particularly those ones that are not ready to give up the trade. In any case, for most of the people talking about negotiating with criminals, which law backs that effort? To my mind, the only people that have the prerogative or capacity to forgive an offence can do so mostly after convictions. Justice is not just for the state. So, simply because you’re a governor, you don’t just wake up to say I’m forgiving this, I’m forgiving that. On behalf of the state, yes you can do it. But can you do it on behalf of the victims? You don’t have the right. Justice is for the three; it’s for the state, it’s for the victim and it’s also for the suspect.

So the stick and carrot approach will not work?

Absolutely! People who go into crime do not have ordinary minds like me and you. They have negative emotions. When you spill the blood of another person, there’s a tendency that you’ll do it again. The best for them is for justice to take its course. I have said it before and I will repeat it anywhere, I have the right to say my mind, ever before most people began to say it, negotiating with criminals is wrong. I served as a Commissioner of Police in Rivers State. I worked with a governor who never believed in negotiating with kidnappers. He’ll never allow those or anyone thinking that way to negotiate with kidnappers. And we were able to bring it under control through the use of the same force they used against innocent members of the public.

You’re calling for justice and that justice must take its course. But Nigerians are calling for protection. In your own assessment, why do the police appear weak?

The police are weak because it has been neglected for a long time. I served the police for 31 years. The kind of budget you hear does not get the same release. How can you perform? Alhamdulillahi (praise be to Allah) I got to the peak of my career and I could see funding was the problem. Where we are now, we have an intervention model to improve the budget of the police in an interventional manner. Where some of the procedures are meant to be taken away, we’re being allowed to sink into the same problem. The same purpose of creating this Trust Fund is because the procedures of getting it through the Ministry of Police affairs do not give the end result. But it’s the same problem the interventionary Trust Fund is facing.

So we are still in the same boat…

I have no problem with that at all, because we have the responsibility to let the public know and the responsibility to be transparent. We have to let everybody know what is happening and we should execute it to the best of our ability.

Why is it difficult to massively recruit people into the Police Force?

Thank you very much. There’s nothing difficult about it, particularly as we are aware that the government had given the approval for the police to recruit 10,000 policemen each year, and there’s always money to back that exercise. At least we have witnessed the performance twice. But unfortunately, in the third one, there was a disagreement between the police and the Police Service Commission. Incidentally, I’m one of those retired IGPs delegated to intervene between the two of them (the chairman of the Police Service Commission and the immediate past IGP). I think we were almost through with that with the former IGP.

But with the present IGP, we can get things done. I made sure I went with the present IGP in one of my visits to the Police Service Commission to persuade them to solve the problem. So, the efforts continue.

But if you want to solve the second most important problem of the police aside from funding, which is manpower, the most immediate thing to do is to merge organisations or government departments performing similar functions with the police immediately. This is the way you can improve the manpower of the police. Let me be direct: if you merge the Civil Defence, the Road Safety and the NDLEA with the police, you’ll be raising over 100,000 improved manpower of the police. That happens in all parts of the world. You can make NDLEA a department in the police anti-narcotics; make the Road Safety part of the Police Federal HighWay Patrols which the Trust Fund is introducing or convincing the police to reintroduce while we give them the necessary support. If you do that, you’ll see the change in the performance of the police immediately.

Will that not amount to dilution in terms of psychological focus? Because most people believe that the police need radical reforms and some of these agencies have lesser problems than the police.

Are you talking about lesser problems or you’re talking about performance? If you’re talking about performance, from the creation of NDLEA till date, would you tell me that the abuse of drugs and involvement or escalation of dealerships in drugs has not quadrupled? When a divisional police officer used to know that it is his responsibility to control the abuse of drugs in his area and to control the dealers in his area. The rate of raids was more and much more effective than it is today. How can you tell me that a department that has about 6,000 personnel can perform the functions of an organisation with hundreds of thousands of personnel?

When the control of drugs was in the hands of the police, every policeman felt he had the responsibility for the control and the abuse and sale/dealership of drugs. Are we talking about reality or we are talking about satisfying the wishes of the people who want us to copy what they see in ideal societies? Would you tell me that the withdrawal of police highway patrol to enable the federal road safety lay claim for the responsibility on the highway has not contributed to the escalation of crimes on the highways?