Category: Saturday Interview

Josephine Zidane, is the President of Tailor Made Tours, one of the biggest ground handling tour firms for Christian pilgrims in Israel. In a recent encounter with KUNLE AKINRINADE in Jerusalem, the 48-year-old lady talks about her growing up days, how her company handle Nigerian pilgrims and how she became a mother of a set of twins, following prayers and predictions by Nigerian clergymen, after battling childlessness for 20 years.

What were your growing-up days like?

My parents are Israelis who were initially based in Russia but now living in the United States of America (USA). I was born in Russia and my parents brought me to Israel when I was two weeks old. My parents later left for the United States of America (USA) but I decided to stay back here. I actually broke the protocols that children must obey their parents. I chose to disobey my parents to stay back here and serve as a soldier when I was 18 years old. I never knew that God had a huge plan for me in life to serve all the nations of the world and become the bridge between Israel and other nations.

Did you start your tour firm with Nigerian Christian pilgrims?

No. We started with all the Christian nations of the world with huge projects. But in Africa, I started with Ethiopian Christian pilgrims and churches many years ago. But by coincidence I came to Nigeria in 2007 and brought excellence in taking care of Christian pilgrims. I am serving my clients well. I have been in business since 1992. I established the tour company in 2000 and my Nigerian office in Abuja was established in 2007.

Does your company still manage Ethiopian pilgrims as ground handler?

Of course, yes. We are the main gate today for African Christian believers to the Holy Land of Jerusalem. We have Congo, Cameroon, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and others, but Nigeria is my favourite.

Why is Nigeria your favourite?

I love Nigerians. That is actually the most precious friendship I have with people all over the world. It is a kind of unbreakable bond that makes us so committed to Nigeria.

What’s your assessment of Nigerian Christian pilgrims and the arrangement for the pilgrimage so far?

Definitely we are progressing, and Tailor Made is a major stakeholder in bringing greater performances and excellence in realising unity with our people in Nigeria. And you see the result is that Christian pilgrimage has not been the same with Nigerian pilgrims since we started handling pilgrimage and managing Nigerian pilgrims since 2007.

Nigerian pilgrims are more than ever before well welcomed and embraced in Israel, just like the Americans. It’s a different protocol all together. The era of buses conveying pilgrims breaking down and making them to eat anyhow at 2-star hotels is no more. What we have now is excellent services all through. People are undertaking their spiritual journey and they are happy with their wellbeing, and that is what is most important.

How do you rate Nigerian pilgrims?

Organisation of pilgrimage from your country is very strange because of the fact that this exercise is sponsored by Nigerian government. Nigeria is the only country in the world that still sponsors Christian believers to the Holy Land and Nigerian pilgrims are really much into prayers. They love Israel. They love Jerusalem and we can see that once they are here (Israel), they are becoming truly angels, and it’s really an amazing atmosphere to see Nigerian pilgrims in Israel.

In what ways have you benefited from prayers of Nigerians?

Actually, my unbreakable bond with Nigerians is really about prayers. When they pray, something amazing happens. And it is no joke that we witnessed showers of blessings or heavy rain whenever Nigerian pilgrims are here. It’s an amazing thing every year.

What is more amazing is that God has used Nigerian clergymen to change my story. When I visited Nigeria a few years ago, Nigerian pastors prayed for me after about 20 years of being childless and looking for the fruit of the womb, and I became Iya Ibeji (twins’ mother). I became Mama Double Double because of prayers by Nigerian clergymen for me.

For me and my household we hold Nigerians in high esteem because of the prayers, and this is a lifetime thing. I am not only here for business but to do everything to hold Nigerian flag very high. This is where I come to the delicate issue of some Christian pilgrims from Nigeria absconding during pilgrimage. Pilgrimage is a spiritual exercise and people should not insult this exercise for all kinds of rubbish. Some of the pilgrims are doing all kinds of rubbish by absconding, and they are damaging the name of Nigeria as well as frustrating other Nigerians who want to come and pray in Israel.

Where and when did the prayers by the clergymen take place in Nigeria?

Oh, the prayers took place in so many places in Nigeria. I remember the very first person who prophesied to me was Prelate Sunday Makinde, who used to be the head of the Methodist Church in Nigeria. Prelate Makinde prayed for me for several days in 2008, and at the end of the prayers, he prophesied that I would become Mama Double Double (mother of twins).

Also, in 2011 in Osun State, one of the big prophets in the state, Prophet Isaac Adebunmi, prayed for me for so many hours and prophesied that I would become Mama Double Double (mother of twins) and the prophesies came to pass. And there are many other Nigerian clergy men who also prophesied that God would take me out of bareness and bless me with a set of twins, and it happened exactly as they predicted when I was eventually delivered of a set of twins after 20 years of being childless.

What names did you give your twins?

We named them Sarah and Isaac. But in Nigeria, they are called Israel and Nigeria (laughter). And it’s such an unbreakable bond that that has been created between us and Nigerians. We as a family feel that we owe Nigeria a lot because of the blessings that we have derived from your country, and that has changed the protocols between the two countries.

Now in Israel, when you say Tailor Made, they say Nigeria and vice versa. Now the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Interior consult us when issues arise about Nigeria.

I have made presentations about Christian pilgrimage to other parts of Nigeria like Bauchi and Port Harcourt and several other parts of your country.

Apart from the spiritual benefits of pilgrimage, what else do you think that Nigerians can gain from visiting Israel?

Basically, Lagos State in particular has brought excellence to pilgrimage here. But Lagos State has improved on preparations and wellbeing for pilgrims. We have come to pray but we also need action, and I am glad that the Chief of Staff to the Lagos State governor, Mr Tayo Ayinde, has talked about giving actions to our prayers for Nigeria, and this what Christian pilgrims from your country must do for the greater development of the country. Up till now, the National Christian Pilgrims Commission (NCPC) is still talking about spiritual aspect, but we are saying that there is need to set aside one day out of the period for the pilgrimage to share of the secrets of national development that Israel has to offer on water resources, agriculture, security and education to give Nigerian people knowledge on what to do about it when they go back to Nigeria and further develop their country.

When was the last time you visited Nigeria?

I came to Nigeria for the first time in 2007 and I have since been coming to the country every year.

What are the lessons you have learnt from your interactions with Nigerians?

Let me tell you, I have learnt so much from Nigerians. And the lesson is that I have become more humble in life than ever before. The Yoruba people have taught me great wisdom. They said to me, ‘Josephine, if you are a monkey that climbs trees too high, you will fall down.’ The lesson in this wise saying is that I should take things slowly and learn not to think too highly of myself, hence, I have become more humble as well as become a servant in real life too. This is because I know where I am coming from and where I am heading to, and I don’t want to fall.

Also, when crucial things are happening to me in life, I have learnt to take them easy because of the wisdom Nigerians have shared with me. Like when I visited one of my staffs who lost her right hand in a car accident in Gombe State, I was very devastated. But Nigerians told me that I should thank God for her life because she’s still alive. They asked me to shun despondency and look at life as a half full glass. So you (Nigerians) have an interesting approach to life and we Israelites like you for that. It is for this that I want to urge you people not to change your positive spirit.

What are your favourite Nigerian foods?

I am in love with Amala, Fufu, pounded yam and pepper soup. My husband also loves eating fried plantain, pepper soup and catfish from Plateau State. We love Nigerian cuisine a lot.

Dr Olaseinde Martins, a consultant surgeon with the Ifako-Ijaiye General Hospital, Lagos, in this interview with PAUL AKPABIO and BIODUN ADEYEWA, x-rays the Coronavirus  pandemic that is currently ravaging the world. He also shares with us some of his high and low moments in the course of his medical career over the years.  Excerpts:

Doctors always seem to be on a collision course with the government, why is this so?

The principles of life are applicable to all, notwithstanding the professions. You need to be alive to keep other people alive. We do not encourage friction but you have to be alive to save people’s lives as a doctor. So, anytime the means of survival is challenged, particularly when people are working, it shouldn’t be condoned. But good enough, we don’t have such a situation in Lagos State. As a matter of fact, I must commend the Lagos State government, which I believe has the best welfare system for doctors in Nigeria. Even God says that the labourers are worth their wages. One of the major challenges is that when people are working and are not paid, moreso when you are working with obsolete equipment; when we as doctors complain, it is to prepare ourselves ahead of any challenge, just as we have a global challenge now in the name of Covid 19.

What prompted you into opting for the medical profession?

As a child, I dreamt of how to help and serve people.  I liked taking care of people as a child. Also as a child, I watched care givers repeatedly come to our town in Kwara State for medical retreat. And I used to watch in admiration as they treated people of different ailments. People who had not been able to eat or walk properly, recovered after three days or so. That indeed impressed me. I was touched and that prompted me to later study medicine. So, I had always been hopeful and I had a potential. Afterwards, I deliberately worked towards achieving that purpose.

How did your background contribute to who you are today?

Truly and sincerely, I must thank God for His grace and appreciate the role of my teachers, who made great impact in my life. One of them, Mr Fasusi, encouraged me to study to become the best. I must also commend my parents. My mother actually did more than my father. At a point, it was difficult to go to school; she had to leave the town to go into the forest to engage in commercial farming, the planting of kolanut and all that, because she was desperate to send me to school. And she was almost 60 years in age at that time. I thank God for her; she did a great job but she is late now.

Do you have any fear about Coronavirus that has been ravaging the world?

I have no fear to be candid and what we shouldn’t allow is fear; instead, we should be courageous and have faith that we shall overcome. However, my concern is that it is the blessing that God gave that the Coronavirus has come to destroy, which is good health and wealth. This virus has come to destroy our health and to waste our wealth. We need to be healthy to create wealth and you need to be wealthy to sustain health. The challenge we have now is that it is affecting both. So, we have to prioritise. We know that as we close down, wealth is dwindling gradually but we must face the health issue right now.

Are you satisfied with the steps the Lagos State government has taken so far to tackle the pandemic?

Looking back at what other countries of the world have done and with the knowledge of this disease, I think I must commend the efforts of the Lagos State governor Babatunde Sanwo-Olu, his deputy, Obafemi Hamzat and their team; they are doing their best. The Nigeria Medical Association, the Commissioner for Health, Prof. Akin Abayomi and the entire team; they are doing a good job. We need to do this now. Let the efforts be on our health now. We must look away from the wealth that we are losing now. If we gain the health, we will regain the wealth. But if we lose the health, no matter the wealth, we won’t be able to enjoy the wealth.

What advice will you give to other states?

Lagos State has always been known for setting the pace. We did it during the time of Ebola virus and the whole world commended us. I think Lagos is a state to watch out for and to emulate in doing great things. Even on the arrival of the virus in Lagos, the state has been very proactive with a centre and also at a point calling for a stay at home.

There is an outbreak of another disease in China apart from COVID-19. ‘What is it with China and diseases?

Well, we are not going to stigmatise China because of any disease because it could actually come from anywhere. It is a global one; the air we breathe here is the same that they breathe in China. It is not about China but again, we must also look at our practices; our lifestyles in terms of how we live; our hygiene, what we feed on; then our cultural and social practices that may as well promote or bring some of these diseases. So what I will advise is that we should emulate good hygiene and practise preventive health care system whereby if anything bad is noticed in our bodies, we report immediately to our primary health care officials for timely management.

Everyone expected that America would be able to contain the virus as soon as it reaches the US, but that didn’t happen. What’s your opinion about that?

Everyone believes that America is the world champion, in terms of knowledge and capacity. I must say that as a doctor and pastor, this is a humbling moment for the entire world. To the scientists, we have been humbled. To those who claim all the knowledge of the world, we have been humbled. Even the religious bodies have been humbled. A single, invisible virus has rumbled our entire world and closed down our system; it is indeed a humbling moment for us. It is a time to have a sober reflection and run back to God. At this point, America and the entire world should know that with all our knowledge and skills, the greatest factor remains God.

Can you comment on the controversy about Chloroquine as regards the treatment of Coronavirus?

We have to tread with caution. For now, Chloroquine is not a drug approved to be used in the management of this disease. As a matter of fact, clinical trial is ongoing about Chloroquine. As of now, there is no drug identified for the cure of this virus. The danger of using chloroquine is enormous, especially when not authorised by a doctor.  Chloroquine was used in the past for the treatment of malaria but right now, many other better drugs have been used to treat malaria. So, we are not encouraging anyone to make use of Chloroquine. Even when Chloroquine was used for malaria treatment, it was done on prescription and was never an over-the-counter drug. The danger of Chloroquine to the body (in using it to prevent Coronavirus) will include damage to the eyes and ears. It can even cause death. What we know now is supportive care and following the guidelines as given by the National Centre for Disease Control.

When do you consider to have been the turning point in your life?

I think that great turning point in my life was when I met Christ Jesus. I am the last born of my parents. That singular act changed my entire life. In my days in my place, nobody wanted to go to school. But coming in contact with Christ changed my thinking, my attitude and enabled me to further my education. I told God that I wanted to be a surgeon and He helped me to do so. I’m grateful to God.

Who influenced you most?

My maternal grandfather did. He was one who I looked forward to. He was a man of integrity, bold and courageous. My mother took after him too. He suffered the consequences for being bold and always speaking the truth, but at the end of the day, people came from far and near to learn from him. He was hard working and never encouraged laziness. At the age of 135, this man was still going to the farm.

Do you recall any prank that you did as a child?

One day, I did something very wrong that I learnt from. We didn’t have a pit latrine, no toilet facility; we only had a container where we used to urinate and then go to discharge it. That particular night, I woke and I didn’t know that the man was awake. I urinated there and left. In the morning, the man called me and said: ‘You woke up, you urinated, did you pour it away?’ I think for fear, I denied that I urinated there. The man said: ‘You will not do it again!’ And truly, I did not do it again because he beat me silly. He described how I woke up and what I did in sequence, which confirmed that he was awake and saw me commit the offence.

Being a doctor is living life with a challenging career, how do you cope with work and the home?

It is challenging anywhere in the world; it is most challenging. The work of medical practice is tasking, even when you close from work; you still come to work at home. As a surgeon even at home, you are thinking about your patients, how they are recovering, the expenses and how they can continue to get good health.  All that affects us emotionally and even when you have done your best and you are thinking that the patient will survive, peradventure things go awry and the person dies, hen you start worrying over the death of somebody that you did your best for and sometimes, it leads to depression. How do you manage that and not bring it back home? There are days I come home sad. There also days when a patient who ought to have come five years ago, suddenly appears and it is too late.

What is the most challenging case that you have handled as a doctor? 

So many challenging cases I have encountered as a trainee and as a consultant. I remember a patient now who was brought to the hospital, a child diagnosed to have cancer of the kidney. The stage we received this patient was advanced. Every part of the body was already involved; the only child of the parents, a girl and they have spent so much money before the child was brought to us. We received the prognosis and did our best. Even getting drugs for her was a challenge. At some point, we had to contribute money to manage the patient. It was palliative care.  At that point, we were not looking at curative because the disease had spread to all parts of the body. Chemotherapy was given and so many things, support and prayers but the patient still died. Breaking the news to the parents was challenging.

Can you share with us your most embarrassing moment in the course of duty that you would never forget?

If I call it an embarrassing moment, I may be right or I may be wrong. It started like an embarrassing moment but ended as a rewarding moment. That day, I was leaving the hospital, I saw a woman at the gate crying. I had closed, I wasn’t on call. I had called my wife that I was on the way home. I heard a voice within me saying: ‘Go back and help that woman’. I turned back immediately. I discovered that the woman brought a sick child of six months. God told me that I should do everything possible to make the child okay. The child needed to be operated on. I went everywhere. The mother was the only one around; the husband wasn’t around, didn’t come with money. We needed blood, I went to the blood bank and some people even thought that I had collected money from the woman because my own was too much. I told them that they should put the charge for the blood on my name to be removed from my salary. They all stared at me in disbelief. My colleagues wondered because I was not on duty, so why was I so concerned? I took it up as a challenge. That very night at 1am, I took that patient into surgery. The child needed emergency surgery and I operated that child with my team and the child did well. What touched me was, as I came out of the theatre, lo and behold, I was looking at my uncle straight in the face at 2.30 am. I was still putting on gloves and wearing my theatre gown. He was looking at me and I was looking at him. He mentioned my name, that one that only people at home know and call me. He asked me what I was doing there, and I asked him the same question. Some of the nurses were looking at us and watching the drama. So I told him I am a doctor and worked at that hospital. He told me that his wife brought a sick child to the hospital. He confirmed that the child just operated was his child. I was almost crying. As at that point, they had been married for almost 20 years. And that was their first child who was going to die. I thank God because the child survived and now grown up. I wondered how God works because that man is my blood brother. I never knew I was attending to my brother’s son that very night.

What role do you think we as individuals have to play in ensuring the safety of our lives with regards to Covid-19?

It is a pandemic and everyone is involved. We need to keep our hands clean. I must again commend the efforts of the government. It may not be too palatable or comfortable, but the populace must bear with government and cooperate. The government has said stay at home; please stay at home if you are not on essential duty. Then keep good hygiene. Avoid crowds. It will soon be over. If you travelled, self-isolate. And then people should review their cultural and social practices that do not enhance good health and embrace God.

What should we learn as a nation that loves medical tourism?  

It’s, indeed, a humbling moment and a time that we have had to learn our lesson the hard way. For years, as medical practitioners, we have been shouting that the country should reduce medical tourism knowing the huge funds that we have been expending on such to access healthcare facilities in other parts of the world. Those people sat down, reviewed and improved their health system. I think it is time that we too did that. Now, there is a lock down around the world. Even if you want to go there for treatment now, I it is not possible. That is why we have to look inward and put in place our own healthcare system and facilities, so that what we have here will be adequate and good for our citizens. And we won’t need to be going outside the country to access healthcare.  The World Health Organisation has recommended that 15% should be set aside for the development of health care, but I doubt if we are spending close to five percent for the health sector. We must train and re-train our doctors, develop medical facilities, we must research. Some of us keep travelling out of the country and even those of us here are tempted to do so too. So, the condition of service for the healthcare providers should be reviewed to encourage our care givers.

There is no disputing the fact that a lot of Nigerian musicians are living in luxury and affluence, flaunting their wealth in a way that makes music look like the easiest way to wealth. But there are many others who are so poor that one would wonder what the problem is. Mayowa Ayilara, the CEO of Musical Copyright Society of Nigeria (MCSN) offers an insight in this interview with PAUL UKPABIO.  He also speaks about the efforts being made by MCSN to secure the sums due to some musicians through litigations against some corporate organisations.

 

DO you have any background in music?   No. I am not a musician. I am just an administrator. I specialise in copyright administration. I work with Musical Copyright Society of Nigeria.

You have been associating with musicians and copyright society for a long time. When exactly did the relationship begin?

Nearly 28 years ago, I have been on the issue of protecting creator’s right. Sometimes, it is difficult to define and people didn’t appreciate it. But when we started to identify the rights and to harness the rights for the purpose of administering the rights vis a vis defending them, then it took shape.

In the past, people would go to the recording studio, they would perform music, they would record and release it to the public, everybody picks and uses it in their different businesses without remembering the persons who wrote or composed the music or performed it.

The only person who initially got something for the work was the person holding the microphone, whose picture is seen on the cover of the album. Those are the people sometimes compensated.

But are they always really compensated? The answer is no! I will cite the case of King Sunny Ade, who recently won about N500m case against his former recording companies, which shows that these people are never adequately compensated.

We created this platform, the Musical Copyright Society of Nigeria, and gave meaning to these issues. I can tell you today that many of the hit songs that you have heard were written by people who you have never heard about, and who are never compensated for those intellectual properties.

For example, most of late Michael Jackson’s hit songs were not written by him. He only performed them and got all the accolades. The same thing happens in Nigeria.

What experience caused you to get involved with artistes?

I can say it was a divine call. I was just like other people who play music, dance to it and enjoy it, and life goes on. But by divine intervention, I met some other people who had been abroad and knew about this kind of business.

Alhaji Fatai Oladale Giwa, a renowned lawyer who was an agent, then the late Chief Alabi, an accountant; these were the guys who got the experience from the UK, who through interaction with the Performing Rights Society and the Mechanica l Copyright Protection Society of the United Kingdom, collaborated and brought the idea to Nigeria and invariably incorporated the Musical Copyright Society of Nigeria.

It is through these individuals, particularly Alabi, that I got drafted into this business and the journey started. Today, we are a household name.

 

‘How we secured N6bn damages against Multichoice’

 

You couldn’t have done it without the musicians…

Yes, at that initial stage, those people were representing the foreigners, and many of the musicians then like I.K Dairo, Ojege Daniel, King Sunny Ade, Ebenezer Obey, Sonny Okosun and Victor Olaiya, among others, were led into the PRS organization. Many of them are dead now.

They were all members of the PRS United Kingdom. So when MCSN was incorporated and the news got around that now we have a Nigerian society, PRS advised its members to come home to join it. Some agreed but others did not. Some of them are still with PRS till tomorrow while many others came to MCSN.

A good example of those who came are King Sunny Ade who later became the chairman of MCSN; Chief I.K Dairo, and the list continued to grow and the younger generation of musicians continued to join; people like Orits Wiliki, Ras Kimono, Victor Essiet, Charly Boy, Onyeka Onwenu, Mike Okri and Stella Monye. We created awareness for the musicians to get royalty for their intellectual properties.

Have you been getting money for the musicians?

Yes, wherever music is used or played. The money for the musicians actually starts from where the music is made; that is the recording companies. But unfortunately, the record companies were seen as being exploitative. They get huge benefits from the musicians and give stipends.

Actually, many of the musicians were claimed to even owe the recording companies. That is because in those days, performance were the key factors for the upcoming musicians. At that point, all they wanted were their music to be heard and played at necessary public places.

The recording companies were giving them the instruments, buses and so on but were recouping it from royalties.

Now the real practice is the recording companies to pay them upfront. The second step is wherever the music is played in public places, the law expects you to pay the person for the copyright, and these are the places we collect money for the musician. The third place is broadcasting stations.

There is hardly any broadcasting station that will survive without playing music. So we go to the broadcasting stations to collect royalties to pay the musician.

How successful has it been?

If you go abroad, you can say that it has been very successful. But in the Nigerian situation, it has not been so successful. We are still growing and we have huge revenue out there to collect, and that is because the natural attitude of Nigerians is that when it comes to issues of law, they play ignorance or play too know.

They don’t want to obey the law easily, especially for something that they have been enjoying free like we were experiencing in those days.

They will tell us why should we pay you; I bought the cassette with my money? So until we communicated and ended up in court and then the court now started giving judgment with huge damages, people began to sit up. So it is taking us a long time to explain all these to people.

What is the volume of the litigation that MCSN is involved in right now?

We have quite a lot of litigations going on presently and I think there are no fewer than 50 going on in different courts. As we are getting out of one court, we are going into another one. The good thing is that we are the only organisation that are ready to pursue the issue of copyright to the Supreme Court and won. Those cases are serving as precedents, which are now making our activities easier. It is not totally easy though.

The organizations owing, are they paying?

Oh yes, they are paying.

So the musicians are smiling?

They can’t be totally smiling yet. It is like someone expecting N100 from you and you are giving him 15 Kobo. In a country of 120 million people with hotels and clubs everywhere, the question is, how many of those hotels are paying?

Do you love music?

Of course, I do. I am attracted to musicians by their performances and the message they communicate to people in their music.

PMAN seems to be in disarray. How does that affect the average musician and copyright generally?

PMAN is a separate organization an it’s the members who will best say what is wrong with PMAN. But I know that many PMAN members are also members of MCSN.

So I would advise that PMAN gets on its feet and work well to ensure that its members get their rights, and it should also be the focus of PMAN to ensure that an organization like ours, where its members are, works well so that we can collaborate to ensure good welfare for the members.

But we have not even started the collaboration or even started discussing how to reach an understanding on how we can work together.

We have seen musicians who were like a flash in the pan. They had a hit which was out there for a few years and then we hear nothing about them again. Do such people still collect royalties from MSCN?

Oh yes, they do. Once your music is still being listened to or exploited, you still get royalties, especially if it is protected under the law. Several of our members who are registered with us, even if they are dead, money still come in for them.

Has a woman ever emerged chairman of MCSN?  If no, why?

No, because no woman has offered herself for election as a chairman. Even at a point when it was muted to appoint Onyeka Onwenu to succeed King Sunny Ade, she declined because of her many other heavy commitments then.

Your job at MCSN is more or less about debt recovery. Is your wife and family not worried about your life and safety?

My job is being misinterpreted as a debt recovery work as against being a service provider to users of music and creators of music. I am a kind of go-between two different parties. People are getting to fully understand the import of our job, which is to remove the legal challenges or obligations placed on users of musical works and the rights of creators.

Yes, my wife and family would naturally be worried about my life and safety, but being Christians who follow in my leadership at the home front, the fear and worries about my life and safety are really not there.

Are you impressed with the number of female musicians in the country?

Yes, I am very impressed but have some reservations about many of them being performers only, as against being creative.  What I am trying to say is that not all of them are composing and writing original music and lyrics of their own.

A good number of them cannot play any musical instrument apart from singing. Once they are able to cross that bar and are writing and composing their original lyrics and music, and also playing musical instruments, my reservation would no longer have any basis.

Can you give us an example of your success?

We spoke to Multichoice about this a couple of times in the past but they refused to bulge. We took them to court and at the end of the day the court fined them N6 billion. So if we talk to your organisation, we could say just pay a token. But if you refuse, we will then take you to court where the court will charge you appropriately for damages.

But how do you expect Multichoice to pay that huge sum? Are they negotiating with you now?

I don’t know how they are going to pay it. They have not started the negotiation. They have gone on appeal. But while they are on appeal, the Supreme Court gave a decision on a similar case to theirs. But then the multichoice matter is still in court and not yet concluded, so we can’t say what will come out of their appeal until judgment is given.

Are there other cases involving such huge amounts?

Yes, we do we have the one against Globe Broadcasting, the owners of Wazobia station, which is going for between 2 and 3 billion naira. We have other cases against Airtel and MTN.

With the fact that corporate organizations are owing musicians these much, what would you say about the welfare of the average musician?

Musicians have a right to live the good life and whatever lifestyle they want or desire. Some may want to live flamboyantly to make them unique or to make them look different. It is up to them. And because of the nature of their work, they will always want to look fine and presentable to the public. But the truth is that, what musicians are earning from their works is far below what they should be earning.

Are you saying that they are not rich to the standard you expect?

I am saying that most of them are poor. No matter what they think they have now, it is a far cry from what they ought to be having now because of the huge market we have here. Especially now that their music is taken across the globe.

Indirectly you are saying that it is these people that owe them that are preventing musicians from being as rich as they ought to be?

That is it. Like I said earlier, if you are expecting money from a hundred places and only five of those places pay you, it can’t make you feel good. And if all of them pay you, of course, you will be in great affluence.

In climes where things work well, a musician can project how much he is likely to earn in a year from his music sales, from PR, royalties and so on. He could even use his erstwhile payments as evidence for collecting loans or advances from banks.

But here I can’t see musicians getting such loans except perhaps the real big ones that can walk into a bank and say I want a N100m loan from you, go to my society, they can give you my earning capacity. So these are the scenarios.

Over there, musicians are treated like kings. Imagine, it is a Nigerian lawyer who will be telling a client not to pay for copyright. In developed countries, if a musician takes a case of copyright to a lawyer, he will be advised to go and pay or the lawyer could help to negotiate and reduce the payment.