Category: Sunday magazine

Victor Olufemi Ajulo is an education consultant of international repute, having attended a lot of seminars and conferences on education. Before venturing into education consultancy, he was into banking and financial advisory. He is a fellow of the Institute of Change Management (FICM), Fellow, Institute of Management Consultants (FIMC), FNIM, FCMA, CIHP, MFHIP and several others. He opened an inroad for Nigerians to study in Ukraine, before extending to other countries of Europe and North America. He spoke with Gbenga Aderanti

ANYONE in the business of education consulting would know Olufemi Ajulo like the back of their hands. As the lead consultant at the Michelle and Anthony Consulting, a pioneer overseas education consultancy outfit since 2003, he is easily one of the leading players in the industry.

Recalling his foray into the business of education consultancy, Ajulo, one of the first set of consultants to take Nigerian students to Ukraine for university education, said: “I was a consultant to a company that wanted to supply Ajaokuta Steel Company billets. But when I got to Ukraine, I discovered that their education was very deep; so I started sending students to Ukraine. At that time, Ukraine had no embassy in Nigeria.”

That singular act heralded the influx of Nigerians to Ukraine in search of knowledge. This, he also said, influenced the decision of the Ukrainian government to establish an embassy in Nigeria and trigger the existing cooperation between the two countries.

With more than 20 years background in education consultancy, the chartered accountant’s background had been influential to his decision to venture into the business of ensuring that Nigerians who are willing to study abroad get quality education. This, he said, was his own way of giving back to the country.

He reckons that an agreement he signed with Kanata Academy in Canada has been highly instrumental to the huge migration of many Nigerians to the North American country.

“A lot of Nigerians have been migrating to Canada. But we don’t do the Canadian curriculum, which is not the same as the Harvey curriculum or GCE A Level or Cambridge in which you have to sit for an exam,” he said.

Accordingly, the partnership with Kanata Academy has paid off, as most parents have been saved millions of dollars that would have been paid on tuition, feeding and accommodation in Canada. Most of them, he said, would be in Nigeria doing online programmes, and within one year of studying from Nigeria, they are given domestic numbers in Canada, he said.

“The domestic number allows the student to be treated like a domestic student. So when he wants to go into the university, instead of filling the international form 201, he fills the local form 101, because the result that will be used for him or her is the Ontario secondary school diploma.

“What we are trying to offer Nigerian students is an opportunity to go there and be able to offer technological transfer.”

Ajulo believes that Nigerian employers will continue to prefer people with foreign degrees over their Nigerian counterparts as long as the government is lackadaisical about funding government schools.

“If you get a foreign degree or you go to a foreign school, the way students are taught is different. They are taught by an assignment based system; a work system that allows students to come and defend, to talk about what they have learnt.

“The average Nigerian student does not do critical thinking.”

Ajulo, however, believes the problem is surmountable.

He said: “I was a consultant with Dr. Amiel FagbuIu of blessed memory, the author of Policy Development and Nigerian Education, when he wanted to professionalise the teaching profession.

“The teaching profession should have been like Accounting in which people are chartered. The earlier we do these things, the better. And most of them can be done.

“It is only in Nigeria that qualification for teaching is lower than every other qualification, and the professional teachers have not thought that they should have a professional body– a chartered institute of teachers.”

Ajulo probably knows what he is talking about, as he has assisted in relocating and expanding the provision of an international school following the British National Curriculum, GCSE, and A level, developing university links and students’ recruitment as well as plans to establish an English Language and professional studies  unit.

He is a member of YEDAB, a Turkish umbrella organisation for all education consultants. He is also a member of ICEF, study travel network, WEBA and a host of other educational and training professional bodies.

For him, good education generally does not come cheap.

He said: “I always tell people as an accountant that when there is scholarship, education is not free. The meaning of scholarship is that you were given the right to do it without pay. Other people without scholarship cannot do it. That means the government paid for you.

Ajulo believes that those who manage the ivory towers in Nigeria should be made to take courses in management.

“If they bring me now to the university to be the Vice Chancellor, they will say he is not a professor. But running an institution is all about management; it is about how you want to do things. How do you raise funds for the school? Alumni of schools abroad make a lot of money. How many of these universities are doing business in education?”

He flayed the belief in some quarters that consultants are not needed for school placement abroad. The roles of consultants are important.

He said: “A client came around and said his child wanted to do Forensic Science. I said go to the internet and search for the top forensic experts. I told the same girl to go to the internet and also pick top pharmacists, and I said it is only one year that will separate you and it is the same course that you will do and the outcome is different.

“The pharmacist is the person that can employ himself; that can do anything till the end of his life. But as a forensic expert, you are either confined to a police station or to a research centre or all that.”

Besides, he said, “I don’t know how much you will get paid in Nigeria as a forensic scientist”.

Also, Ajulo says there are Music-related courses that can fetch more money than Music itself, such as Audio Technology.

“So you need some advice. You have to go through somebody that knows. The ratings of the university, the scholarships available, you can be advised.”

Ajulo recalled that he had a finance house in the 1990s, but by the time government was issuing licences and increasing the capital base, he could not get it and had to limit himself to financial advisory.

He said he once wrote a proposal when Gen. Olusegun Obasanjo (rtd) was the president: “I wrote a proposal that we should identify the mineral resources that were in each of the local government areas and they would bring five people each for Geology, Environment, Agric, Nursing and Medicine. If you do that for the five years, that is 25.

“Because they are signing a five year bond with the government, you are sure that you are having 774 doctors in seven years multiplied by five. I’m not talking about others now. These are doctors that will stay in primary health care and the treatment can be done.

“If that had been done during the time of Obasanjo, which is more than 10 years ago, we will have 18,350 doctors who cannot go on strike, because they have signed a bond that you have sent them.”

Interestingly, Ajulo’s idyllic background has not made him to forget his values. Trained by a father who retired as chief executive of a bank, and a mother who was a nurse, he said the discipline inculcated in him by his parents remain his guiding principle.

He said: “I was in YABATECH (Yaba College of Technology) where I read Accounting. I was a students’ union leader there.

“When we were growing up, it was not about the money you have. But now, it is about how much you have in the pocket. So a lot of things have changed.

“Because of the value system I grew up with, a tailor opposite our house could punish me. And I remember that by the time the tailor knocks, my parents would ask, who is it among them? They would not ask him why he wanted to beat their son or what their son had done. And when you come in, you would be beaten again.

“There was a value system; that background also made me appreciate the value of hard work..

“There are times my father would ask my driver a lot of questions: how are you making money in an economy that is not growing? I won’t go home and buy a G-class for my father; he would not take it. Before I knew it, he would call the next police station, ‘…he just bought a N100 million car for me. I don’t know what he has done.’”

Growing up, the in-thing was to ‘check out’ of the country; but he said he had no reason to do so as he was comfortable and doing well in his banking profession. But he eventually did and got his fingers burnt.

He said: “I have told you about my background. First, I am from Ekiti State. Two, the way I was brought up, I would always come back. I knew there was no way I would get to the top abroad.

“Even if I was carrying dual citizenship, from my accent you would know that I’m not British.

“When I was in Nigeria, I was working with a bank. You see people from abroad come to Nigeria. They would wear perfume and all that. They said there were jobs in England and I resigned and I went to England. That is an experience I can never forget.

“The people that I called that I was coming to England said I should come. On September 13, 1991, I called before leaving on board Alitalia and they said I should come.

“When I got to Rome, I started calling the number but nobody picked the call. You know I just left the bank, so I had money and I had the address of the place with me.

“When I got to Heathrow, I took a taxi and I got to the house but I didn’t see anybody there. I was knocking and waiting. My accent was deep.

“A Jamaican woman who was there said if I stayed for 10 minutes, the police would arrest me. I asked why? He said the house was being used for credit card fraud. There I was, I didn’t know anywhere and I had resigned my banking job in Nigeria.

“I had to first stay in a hotel. Eventually, I had to stay with somebody who when I was working in the bank, would come to Nigeria and I would give him money.

“The first job I did was to pack video. There was still video then. It was an agency job. Just like the way they would pack Julius Berger workers, that was the way they would pack us. I can never forget the experience because if I had stayed in Nigeria, things would have been better.

“But then the experience was good. When I came back, my father was still in the bank. People don’t tell Nigerians what they go through when they are abroad.”

Professor Solomon Adebola, the Vice Chancellor of Adeleke University, Ede, Osun State, comes across as a good blend of the old and the new order with his belief that a university graduate must not only be mentally sound but must also have sound character. He told PAUL AKPABIO why he abandoned a career in banking for the academics. He also spoke about the issue of sex for marks in institutions of higher learning, the prevalence of suicide among students for mundane reasons and his personal life, among other issues.

What would you say were the factors that shaped you into the kind of person you are today?

My family background and upbringing were very influential. Outside my immediate home, the schools I attended, especially the secondary school, had a big impact in terms of the principles of living and setting lifetime goals. So by the time I got into the university after O’ level and A’ level experiences, I was already a mature student.

Where did you grow up?

The early part was in my home town in Kabba which then used to be a part of the Northern Region. And when states were created, it was part of Kwara State before it moved to Kogi State some years ago. That was where I attended primary and secondary schools before moving to the University of Ibadan. Thereafter, I moved to Kano in the north before I coming to Lagos. So the early part was between Kabba and Lagos.

Who would you say has influenced your life the most?

I think my dad and my mom influenced me the most, because my mom was spiritually inclined, very prayerful. And my dad was more of an ambitious person. He believed, for instance, that to achieve a particular thing in life, you must go through a particular way, which means your input is essential. My mom on the other hand would say pray and pray. So, that complimented his efforts.

But besides my family, there was a teacher in my secondary school who made a major impact on me. His name was Mr Campbell. He was British. He came as a missionary from the UK to my secondary school. He influenced me a lot in the area of hard work, Christian principle, honesty, integrity, and so on.

Why did you choose to be an academic?

I thank God that from primary school I had been doing well academically. At Titcombe College where I had my higher school certificate, I was outstanding in Mathematics and was even nicknamed Doctor of Mathematics.  We had a teacher then named Dr Cracker Ville. He was a missionary from the United States of America who came to teach Physics in my school. He already had a PhD in Atmospheric Physics.

That was big in our minds, so I made up my mind that I must go to the university and have a PhD. I thank God that I was able to achieve the feat.

So you studied Mathematics?

Yes. I read Mathematics for Bachelor of Science but changed to Applied Management. I did an MBA and then an M.Sc in Banking and Finance and had my PhD in Management Science from the University of Ilorin. But all along, my research has been more on management science with emphasis on health financing; that is management accounting or financial management, which has been my core area of research all through the period till now.

What moved you away from the banking industry into academics?

It was the inclination to be an academic. I was in the banking industry briefly when I was made the managing director of a mortgage bank. That was shortly after I served in a finance company as a deputy director. But the urge for me had always been to go back to being an academician. It was mainly the interest in academics that moved me away from the banking industry.

But before I returned to be an academic, I had a stint in consultancy because I am a fellow of the Institute of Taxation. So I had practice in Taxation as a consultant in Lagos. It was very tedious but rewarding financially. While doing that, I was teaching in the university on part time basis. Invariably when I was appointed into the university as dean of the faculty before I came to where I am now, I had more or less lost my clientele, so I focused on my academic career.

How did it feel when you had to change from a public university to a private one?

The pull to move to the private university to me was more because the private universities were more organised. Where I went to was Babcock University unlike the public university where I was formerly in Kano and later the University of Ilorin where those aspects of life were not actually more pronounced. The pay was much lower in the private universities then. But besides the pay, I had more satisfaction in my work; not just the secular aspect but the spiritual aspect too. I got more involved in leadership in the church. It was a combination of faith and learning. We led the students into the spiritual aspect of life. The idea was to produce a holistic individual. That is what we call the three He: the head, the heart and, of course, the hand.

Then from finishing from the university, the graduate has the knowledge of entrepreneurship, the hand to do the work; the heart the spiritual aspect of it; and the head just for the academic.

Are you saying that faith based universities are more successful in Nigeria?

It depends on what you mean by success because it could be defined in many ways. But we think of success more in terms of producing a holistic individual. I don’t think I will like to have a first class graduate who is an armed robber. We are saying besides academics, which has been the main focus of the public university, it is the private universities that has been more faith-based. Where I am, for instance, we are more inclined to academics and then the spiritual aspect. So that when the graduate comes out into the society, he is not a liability, because the values were well formed in him or her.

What about the exorbitant fees charged by private universities?

Don’t forget that government universities are run with subventions from the government while private universities, including those that are faith based, are run purely from the school fees of the students. And university lecturers’ pays are not peanuts. To run the university, build laboratories, buildings and infrastructure, someone has to pay for them, and there is no subvention for them except from the students. That is why the school fees are what they are.

But I must quickly mention that in the university where I am now, that is Adeleke University, the owner of the school gives high discount on fees because he chips in his own money to assist students such that a number of the students on campus now are on scholarships, by which he pays their fees directly to assist them. That makes a lot of difference in the lives of these university students; to complete their programmes stress free, financially especially.

What are the challenges you would say are facing private universities in Nigeria at this point?

Funding is the biggest issue. We must remind government that Tetfund should come to assist us also. Tetfund is funded from taxes paid by everyone including people in the private universities. So it should be made available to us too. But government is focusing more on public universities through Tetfund and the challenges we are facing are mainly financial.

That is why, unluckily, many private universities are having problems financing a lot of their projects. And I do hope not that a time will soon come when a lot of them will fizzle out when they cannot cope with the financial demands to run the universities. So the challenges are mainly financial.

Talking about some private universities fizzling out in the near future, how strong is Adeleke University in this regard? Where do you see the university in the next 10 years?

Well I am happy to say that we are very strong in many ways and growing in leaps and bounds. We are strong because of the faith we have in what we are doing and the support of our founder, the man Dr Adedeji Adeleke. I hope you know the school. It is not a question of pride, but we rank highly among other private universities. And each time the NUC comes around for evaluation and accreditation, they are usually astounded by what they find. They never expected this kind of development physically especially in a place far from the limelight. A town that is not as big as Ibadan but making impact.

I see us in the next 10 years coming up to be one of the 10 best universities in Nigeria with much relevance in Africa as much as possible; not just in infrastructure but also in research, development of our graduates and impacting on humanity as well. That is our goal and vision.

Talking about research, at the peak of COVID-19 pandemic, your university came up with a research on COVID-19 vaccine and WHO had view of testing your research work. How did that turn out?

We are still on and we thank God we achieved a lot at that time. In the peak of it, our university was able to do research in finding a vaccine for COVID-19. At a point, we even called a press conference to showcase how far we had gone.  At a point, the World Health Organisation noticed what we were doing and declared us as one of two candidates in Africa who had gone that far. The other candidate is a university in Egypt. And we were declared second in Africa that had gone that far in the research. Currently we are at the point of animal testing for the vaccine. It is very capital intensive. Unfortunately, Nigerian businessmen in the pharmaceutical companies are not willing to inject their money into it.

We have gone far and we thank God. We are collaborating with the Vice Chancellor of Precious Corner Stone University in Ibadan. He is a virologist and he has done a lot to assist us in that respect. And we are still going far.

What other areas will you say that your university is also well known?

We are still young; just above 10 years old. Besides the COVID-19 vaccine research, we have gone out to local areas to see what impact we can make in our local community. A few of our staff, three of them in Engineering, recently won an award from Tetfund to the tune of N22 million to produce local machinery that will impact on local communities in certain areas of need, and that is why for our post graduate programmes, we let the candidates know that their research must be based on community assistance so that as they are finishing their product research, we can have a patent and produce a product or material that we can use to assist the community. And we thank God we are still good in that respect.

I don’t want to divulge too much on what we are still working on. But hopefully, by and by in the next three years, we will report how far we have gone.

Most academics end up marrying people who are also in academics. Was that the case with you?

No, because I am an old academic. When I joined the university system, there were just five universities then: Ibadan, Lagos, Ife, Nsukka, which was the only one in the eastern part of the country, and Ahmadu Bello University which was the only one in the north. Then, the issue of marrying an academic like myself was not a keen thing as at that time. My wife is a nurse and I thank God for her.

How long has your marriage been?

Over 40 years. So not too young a marriage obviously. We got married on 22nd of December 1979; a long time ago?

From your experience, what do you consider as the ingredients that make a marriage last?

Faith, commitment, trust, nothing about money. When you talk about money, I didn’t have. But I thank God that I am not poor but we have been able to live together. Faith in each other and commitment is very important, particularly commitment to what you believe in, commitment to the marriage and, above all, trust in each other. These are bonded by the couples’ trust in God. Each time I speak as Chairman at a marriage reception, I always tell them that a home is like a triangle where the peak is where God is, then one side corner is man, the husband and the other corner, the woman who is the wife. And as they move up to the peak where God is, they get nearer each other also. And that is exactly what has helped us in our marriage and helps other people too.

Is any of your children taking to the academics?

There is one who read medicine. He is going into academics. He is studying to become a neuro surgeon somewhere in Britain now. He did Medicine at the University of Ilorin and he has gone to study at master’s level and doing a PhD also. He hopes to become a consultant eventually in Neuro-surgery. It takes time to become one because you have to first do general surgery, and then specialise.

What are your views about sex for marks which has been making news in recent times?

It is a terrible thing. It is not new. It is just that it has become more pronounced these days. Like I said, when we were in the university in the early 70s, in Ibadan specifically, most of our lecturers were married men, elderly men who had made marks in their lives. For instance one of my lecturers then in Mathematics, Professor Olugbomo was the first Professor of Mathematics in Africa. He was not a randy fellow. Those were academics who chose academics because they wanted to go into academics and be one. There were jobs in those days but they chose the academics and they were focused, unlike now when man are there because there are no other things to do. No other openings for them.  And when they are there, there are no vision of what they want to do, so they veer into other areas.

Unluckily for them too, you find many students coming into the university now with ages lower than expected. When I entered the university, I was the youngest in my class, and I was 18 already. But now you find students coming in with younger ages and they lose focus entirely and you find lecturers harassing student sexually and students harassing lecturers sexually also. And for a man who is loose as a lecturer, he gives in and vice versa. To me it is just dirty. It is a horrible thing. That is why in a university like ours that is faith based, we take a stand. Once any lecturer is found to have interest in such, he is sent out immediately.

Public universities have that regulation too but I am not sure of how rigidly they are committed to it. I can only speak for where I am. The few that were found in recent times are just one of many. In faith based universities like where I am, once it rears its ugly head, we deal with it immediately and very effortlessly.

When you look back at your childhood, what do you miss or recall?

I have fond memories of the past in the villages where there were no power supply in those days and children played around and the issue of morality was there. Upbringing of families was very firm. A child was brought into the world by a couple but brought up in the world by the whole community. But now it is not the same thing. If a child is scolded by a neighbour now, you find some parents going to court over it. There was morality, focus and discipline.

And at that time when I was in primary and secondary school, I knew what I wanted to do in life. But now you find even graduates who don’t know what they want to do in life. They don’t even have an idea of how life works, and they begin to run about aimlessly. There was more fun then and focus. It is sad now when I hear of young students in universities committing suicide over being cheated by boyfriends. I find it very awful. For goodness sake, you are here to live, why will you go and kill yourself because a boy jilted you? Those were things that were strange in those days and almost never happened. It’s sad. It is like life has lost value.

Do you feel fulfilled?

I feel fulfilled and I thank God for it. There would have been a difference if other things have come into play. There are other things that I would have liked to do but which I didn’t do. Still I thank God for giving me opportunity to make impact in my community and I thank God for where I am.

Any regrets?

No, I don’t tune unto regrets, I want to live each moment the way it is and I thank God for each moment. Regrets don’t make people move forward. It is a rocking chair that gives energy sapping moments. What I own is the last week, the last month, the last year, the last hour and the last minute. But this moment, I don’t own it; anything can happen.

Being in the university community for the larger part of your life, don’t you feel left out socially or do you have a social life in the university community?

Well it depends on what you mean by social life. And you could be very correct, because between the public schools where I was initially, and then the faith based university where I am now, there is a very big difference. For instance in the University of Ilorin where I was, besides the issue of me and family life, there was the university club, there were things that took one out of the campus. But here as a faith based university, those things that attracted interest to me then are no more of interest as such. And don’t forget that as you get older, your vision might begin to change. In those days, for instance, before I got married, there were things I did that I would not do now obviously. In those days when there were no children attached to me, there were things that I did which I cannot try now. I think first of the wife I will go and meet at home and the children who look to me as a role model. And that is very important.

Beyond that, now as a Vice Chancellor, I will not even do what I would have done as Assistant Lecturer, Lecturer I or Lecturer 2. There are things that one can do and people will look over it and say, ‘Well, he is a young man’. But as a Vice Chancellor if you do it, it becomes a big news item. Where you stand determines how you behave

When was the turning point in your life?

My first turning point was when I gave my life to Christ. It made a lot of difference to me. The second turning point for me was when I got my PhD. While my third turning point, was when I built my house.

Dr Lloyd Ukwu, Executive Director, National Democratic Coalition (NADECO), USA, speaks on the current agitation for restructuring in the Nigerian polity, the NADECO, USA stance and the planned Conference of Ethnic Nationalities billed to hold in Washington DC in March next year. He spoke in an interview with Gboyega Alaka and some select journalists.

The present administration has maintained that those calling for restructuring have not come out with a clear definition of what they want. How is NADECO, in its own space, defining this call for restructuring for a better nation?

As you know, NADECO was born during the Abacha years when the 1993 June 12 election which late Moshood Abiola won, was annulled. Prominent Nigerians formed NADECO and it was primarily designed to attack the military at that time. Of course you know Abacha got more violent by jailing and assassinating some of us. Hon. Wole Osun was jailed; Pa Alfred Rewane was assassinated…. So, a lot of those chieftains ran away from Nigeria. Some went to the UK; some came here to the United States of America. While here, they asked that we register NADECO USA. We had the likes of Bola Tinubu, Prof. Wole Soyinka, Chief Ralph Obioha, General Alani Akinrinade; Dr Wahab Dosunmu, Prof Bolaji Akinyemi, Chief Anthony Enahoro and a host of others. And so in 1999 Nigeria retuned to civil administration, and of course NADECO did not see much work to do and kind of fizzled out. Now this is 2021 and the very things that brought in NADECO in 1994 have started again; so NADECO is back to the trenches- so to speak, to see if we can get Nigeria working.

Now based on what is currently happening in Nigeria, it appears like the only sustainable and viable option is to restructure. A few years ago, probably there would have been more options, but as we speak, there appears to be only one option, which is restructuring. The word restructuring has been so used that many do not understand what it means. Restructuring simply means, repairing, revamping, transforming; to renew, top overhaul. Now if you want to understand restructuring and why the larger Nigerian people are preaching that restructuring is the only way to fix Nigeria, take a look at Nigeria as a corporate entity or organisation in which the Nigerian people are the sharehold ers. If the company is not doing well, the shareholders are bound to come together to repair or restructure it. Restructuring basically means the art of changing the business model of an organisation to transform it for the better. If you look at Nigeria as a corporate entity, Nigeria is not making profit, Nigeria is going down; it is not achieving the goals for which it was set up and the owners of this corporate entity are the people of Nigeria. You could see Buhari as the chairman or MD/CEO of the entity; he is just someone working for the people. The Nigerian people would rather see Nigeria working well; so it is better that we stick together and repair Nigeria, so that we can continue to live to gether as brothers and sisters. There is nothing very complex about that. The problem of Nigeria is very simple. So we do not understand why the Buhari administration is dragging its feet as far as repairing Nigeria is concerned. If you have a business and it is not doing well, you go back to the boardroom and find a way of fixing it. So what we as Nigerians want to see happen in Nigeria is for Nigerians to come together, the various ethnic nationalities, the zones, and find a way to make sure that the country begins to work well again. That, basically, is what NADECO has in mind when it preaches restructuring. The Pro-Buhari group would always argue that the call for restructuring is just a permutation by the opposition, stressing that they never agitated like this during the time of President Jonathan.

Well, the issue of calling for restructuring is seen as though it is anti-Buhari, but that is misguided. The South is calling for restructuring; the North is calling for restructuring. A couple of weeks ago, we had the former vice presidential candidate to MKO Abiola, Babagana Kingibe, in a speech, arguing that the unity of Nigeria is negotiable. That is the same thing as restructuring. To negotiate, you need to sit down at the table to discuss how you want to live together. So this is not a call designed to put Buhari down. In any case, the reason those calls were not as agitating as it is now is because Nigeria had not fallen to the floor as it has now. Right now, everyone knows that Nigeria is a failed state.

How do you mean?

There are indices you must take a look at. First, the security situation of the country is completely out of control. It was never as bad as this. You never had bandits going to abduct people in the University of Abuja; did you have them burning down train lines? Did you have them bringing down aircraft? There can be insecurity in any clime, but what matters is what effort you are putting in to bring it to the barest minimum. This administration is not doing anything. If you want, you can say that a lot of things that are happening in Nigeria appear as though they are state-sponsored. You see the recycling of people you call bandits; you see the resistance of the terrorists; you see the way people like Sheik Gunmi goes in to negotiate with them and comes back; these would show you that a lot of the things going on in Nigeria could have been fixed if we had a stronger administration.

Are the various calls for secession by the separatist groups part of the restructuring agitation?

No. Look, the separatist groups were born primarily out of the frustration a perceived marginalisation. We believe that if Nigeria is restructured, these agitations would fizzle away, because they would have no basis for asking that Nigeria be broken into bits. The reason they are agitating for it is because there is no equity, there is no fairness, there is no justice in the system. As I said earlier, I see Nigeria as a corporate entity; if you and I own a business, and the business is doing well, such that whatever comes into the business, you come and pick up, and you use it to do things for yourself, for your brothers, for your region; why would you complain that we should break up the business? So if I begin to get returns on my investment, and we start having employment, there are no more security issues, economy begins to grow; infrastructure begins to grow, and you have health facilities all over the place; Nigerians who are agitating for splitting would no longer have reason to make such calls. The question therefore is why does the Buhari Administration not want restructuring if they know it is going to drive away all the crooks that are agitating for their separate countries?

Are you aware that the ruling party has set up a committee which has done a report regarding this restructuring agitation?

You see, we don’t want lip service to the issue of fixing Nigeria. Some of these things are politically motivated. You would see now that there are more activities because 2023 is around the corner; just to make people think they are ready to yield to the yearning of Nigerians. It is important for this administration to know that without restructuring Nigeria, there should be no 2023.

How feasible is that position?

2023 is not more important than the Nigerian people. 2023 is going to put Nigeria more into the coma. This is because, as soon as you conduct the 2023 elections, utilising the 1999 military decree constitution, the result of that election becomes like the fruit of a poisonous tree; because you are using a document that has no basis to conduct an election. So it would be better to clear the foundation of the country before you start building on it. You just had a building collapse in Lagos. That building collapsed because it had no good foundation. So you dare not build the 2023 election on a foundation that is gone.

What can Nigeria learn from restructuring from other climes?

The way people are using that word, restructuring, makes it sounds as though it is a very big word; no it is not. Even in the smallest unit of family, if you have a problem, you come together to see how to resolve it. The crises, insecurity and the likes that we have in Nigeria are symptomatic of a broken system. And when you have a system that is broken, you fix it. And how do we fix it? Nigeria does not belong to one person, Nigeria is a corporate entity, so let’s all come together and fix it. Back in 1787, all the United States had were loose Articles of Confederation. But at a point, they felt that the system was no longer working well, so all the components came together in Philadelphia in 1787 with the sole purpose of amending those articles. They wanted a stronger centre. Because of their experience back in England, they had opted for a weaker centre; but at a point, they realised that the weaker centre was not working for them; so they decided to amend the articles, so that they can have a stronger centre. They spent three months in Philadelphia; and at a point during that deliberations, they said let’s throw away the entire Articles of Confederacy and have a brand new constitution. And that brand new constitution has now made America one of the longest lasting federations. You know why? Because they all tried as much as possible to take into consideration the things that had been problematic to them in the past. Have you wondered why they have the right to bear arms? Because while in England, the police could badge into their homes and arrest them. They said we don’t want that here; so they said, ‘let everybody have the right to bear arms’.  They were all forced to go to the Church of England; so they said let’s put it in there, ‘there should be freedom of religion’. We were not allowed to express ourselves; let’s put it there: there should be freedom of expression. So it was a constitution out of their experience. So, if Nigerians gets together to put together a  constitution, they would do one that will take very serious consideration their past experience and Nigeria will be one of the smoothest run countries of the continent, if not the world. This is because they would not allow those things that have kept them apart from 1967 till date to continue to keep them apart. If I should be part of the design of a new constitution for Nigeria for instance, one of the things I would like to put in is that the army should not have the power to go into the states and start shooting people. The army should represent us outside; the police, inside. You know why? Because that has been a problem before and I would not want it to continue. I would say, let the police be state police, because the issue of the Inspector General of Police (IGP) staying in Abuja and asking that I be arrested in my village has been problematic and I would not like it to continue. So, we put it in there. We would be able to sit down with our clear eyes and discuss how we can all live together in the Federal Republic of Nigeria as brothers and sisters.

From all you’ve articulated, is it safe to say that NADECO is proposing for a Sovereign National Conference?

You know the Nigerian government is obviously not going to allow anything that is akin to repairing Nigeria. So if you begin to think of a Sovereign National Conference, it will be more of wishful thinking – because what the system is doing is placing the cart before the horse. It is placing 2023 before the lives and properties of Nigerians. And so they are looking at 2023 as a milestone to determining Nigeria. But the truth is that after 2023, political activities would start all over and this urgent matter will be swept under the rug. And remember, as Nigeria continues to deteriorate, there are some people who do not feel it; it is the youth that bears the brunt of this mismanagement of Nigeria.

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What therefore is your recommendation or solution to this quagmire?

You know Nigerians have been talking and we love to talk; and the government enjoys this. What they would do is to offer someone from the Southwest the presidency, and tell them, call on your separatist movement to take it easy; then, they’d take the same carrot to the Southeast and say ‘you’ve never produced the president, we’d give it to you this time’; then they’d start jubilating. They would then go the Southsouth with the same carrot; and in the end, there will be a crisis amongst the three major ethnic groups over the presidency. In the end, somebody emerges as president in 2023 but the foundation upon which the person would be required to repair Nigeria would be the same faulty 1999 constitution. So what we are recommending is that instead of just talking restruc turing, we in NADECO are suggesting a timeline. We’re saying ‘you must restructure Nigeria before 2023. In fact by October 1 2022, if Nigeria is not restructured or fixed or repair, then there may be no more Nigeria. And there will be no reason to go for the election.

You still have not answered my question. How do you suggest that this be done, especially as you are saying a Sovereign National Conference cannot happen?

We have a conference, which we have dubbed, Conference of Ethnic Nationalities, coming up here in Washington DC in March 2022; it is designed to bring Nigerians from Nigeria and Nigerians from across the globe under one roof for three day: 4, 5 and 6 of March, to decide how to live together. If that gathering were to be allowed in Nigeria, we could call it a Sovereign National Conference. But because we know that such a gathering will never be allowed in Nigeria, what we are going to do is to make it hold here. There is no law that says Nigerians cannot come to Washington or any other country to decide how to live together. After all, Nigerians went to England when we were asking for independence. As I said earlier, Nigerians have only one option. You know what the other option is, I will not say it.

This Conference of Ethnic Nationalities, how binding can its resolution be, especially to an averse or reluctant administration?

Yes, it may not have legal binding, but don’t forget it is Nigerians who have come from Nigeria and the Diaspora together to make this statement to the officers of Nigeria Limited on how they want to run the country. But if you don’t want to run it that way, so that we can begin making money, so that we begin to create employment opportunities, have good roads, fix our health care system,  generally have better infrastructure, take care of insecurity, banditry, restiveness, Boko Haram; then Nigerians would come back and say, here is what we’ve decided….

What would be your recommendations at such a conference?

If Nigeria Limited were to be my personal company, I would break it into regions or zones. Before now, we had four regions: Eastern, Western, Midwest and Northern Regions; but we’ve created six geopolitical zones, so we leave it like that. And it will be four-tier government; so you’re going to have the federal government, regional government, state government and local government. You’re going to have regional police, state police, local govt police and the city police. As for the army, you’re going to have one army, alongside zonal or regional commands. The Southsouth Command will have a commander of Southsouth origin; same for other zones. That way, there is no one group that can oppress the other. Because the General in the Southwest will not allow the commander from the Southsouth Command or Northeast or Northwest Command to invade his region. The six commanders will now form the military council that will run and secure the entire country.

The same goes for the police. There would be no Nigeria Police. You can have something like we have here, which is the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), which basically handles federal crimes. The states will have their own police; same for the regions, because you cannot apply the same criminal indices for all regions. And you cannot arrest somebody in my local government for an offence and take him to Abuja. No, you arrest him and take him to Port Harcourt, Rivers State or to his local government police headquarters. So if you break down all of these things, and share the ministerial appointments and resources, all of these things would be equitable. And you will find that what these crooks are asking for will be given to them anyhow, without a shot being fired. So restructuring is repairing Nigeria without firing a shot.

Dividing Nigeria from a separatist point of view is a violent way of repairing Nigeria and you have side effects. If you allow restructuring, everybody is going to walk away happy, or happier, because I’ll bring to the table what I think will make my people happier; same for everyone else.

Nigerian government’s foot dragging is sending a lot of confusion and making people think, as you say in Nigeria, that perhaps, there is a hidden agenda. Everybody knows Nigeria has problems; and it cannot be worse than this. I was about 12 years during the war, and I can tell you that Nigeria has completely gone 360 degrees backwards. Are there ways the international community can come in to help address these issues?

Nigeria’s problems belong to you and I. They say sunshine is the best disinfectant; if you turn on the light in your room, the cockroaches in your room will all take cover. What we are trying to do is to put a spotlight on what is going on in Nigeria, so that the international community would know. A lot of things that happen in Nigeria may be domestic, but they have global ramifications. One of them is terrorism. Terrorism knows no boundary.  The individual who blew up the Twin Towers in New York did not live in America. So the international community needs to know that it is also in their best interest to ensure that terrorism does not take over Nigeria. So one of the reasons we are holding the conference here is to make it easy for the major policy makers of in United States, the European Union, the United Nations and other international observers to come in and see whether there is credibility in the process or not. So, yes, we are asking the international community to assist. But remember, Americans have their issues. They have COVID-19 issues; they have unemployment issues; they have the influx of immigrants from the south. So let them not abandon theirs to come and settle ours.

What will be your charge to this administration in making the country better for all?

My charge or advice would be to listen to the Nigerian people; they own Nigeria and they have the right to change the trajectory of their country. We want a chance to sit down and repair the country. I also think the government must listen to the people because their number one mandate is to listen to the people and to protect them and their property. Any government that fails in that regard has failed. That is why it is very easy to describe Nigeria as a failed state. Because every law in this world is geared towards protecting the people and their properties. And even if you don’t know that you have failed, the fact that more people are asking to go their separate ways is indicative of the fact that you have failed. Like the Afenifere leader, Chief Ayo Adebanjo put it, ‘you cannot beat a child and expect him not to cry.’ If you repair Nigeria, those leaders who are agitating to go their ways would be shunned.  The people will tell them ‘what are you talking about? The country is okay, we’re better off a country than countries.’

Some people have argued that the whole agitation for restructuring is a way of giving a dog a bad name to hang it; that once people come into power, they forget about it. Former Vice President Atiku Abubakar for instance never mentioned the word restructuring until he lost out in the last election.

The political process of growth is what you are witnessing. You come into power, target things that you think are not working, and if those things are fixed, you move to point B, you grow. If you think that those agitating for restructuring have ulterior motive, the question is, are the things they are saying not true? Is Nigeria really doing very well? Are Nigerians who are sick able to treat themselves in Nigeria? Can I drive from Port Harcourt to Uyo without being afraid that someone is going to seize me and demand for a ransom from my people? Are the university graduates able to get jobs? I came to America in 1977 and my parents only wanted me to spend four years and obtain a bachelor’s degree? My models were the young graduate corps members who were teaching in my school. But I came to America and I stayed. Now I want to go back home, but there is no home to go to.