The Nation Newspaper

Category: Sunday magazine

  • ‘Conference that won’t adopt new constitution is waste of time’

    ‘Conference that won’t adopt new constitution is waste of time’

    Professor Ben Nwabueze, Chairman of The Patriots, a group of eminent Nigerians, and leader of Igbo Leaders of Thought, is a foremost constitutional lawyer, whose views on the proposed national conference have been well-sought after. In this exclusive interview with Associate Editor, Sam Egburonu, in his GRA home in Enugu, the legal icon spoke passionately on the proposed conference, current political tension in Rivers State, the National Assembly and the proposed centenary celebrations. Excerpts:

    RIGHT now, Nigeria is talking about the need to get a new constitution. Can you explain to us what is wrong with the 1999 Constitution?

    In identifying clearly the primary thing that is wrong with the 1999 Constitution, we, The Patriots, have tried to draw the distinction between process and content. When you talk about what is wrong with the constitution, I think you are focusing on content. Yes, content is important and we will talk about it later but a more important, more fundamental thing is the process by which a constitution is adopted. Is it a democratic process? If it is not, then the constitution is not a democratic constitution. It is not a peoples’ constitution. We have never had a constitution adopted by the democratic process of going through the people. You go through the people by first having a national conference specifically (convened) for the purpose of adopting a constitution and when you have concluded that, the thing must go to a referendum. The people will vote. It is a simple yes or no referendum. Do you agree or do you not agree with this constitution? When you have done that, and that is what more than 85 percent of the countries of the world have done since 1989, take it from me; more than 85 percent of the countries of the world have done this. When you have done that, you now have a democratic constitution, a constitution adopted through a democratic process by the people.

    This is absolutely essential because the constitution is the supreme law of the land. You call this 1999 Constitution the supreme law. What makes it a supreme law? The only thing that can confer the status of the supreme law to a constitution is the authority of the people. If a constitution is not adopted through a democratic process by the people, there is no rationale for its supremacy. It is just supreme because you said so.

    If you turn to the 1999 Constitution, you will find in Section 1 that it is the supreme law of the land. What makes it the supreme law? Is it because it is made for us by the military? Is that what made it the supreme law? If you want a constitution that will be the supreme law, that’s why you mention law, the only body that can confer the status of the supreme law on it is the people. That is the first thing you will settle about the constitution before you will begin to talk about the content. So the first and most important thing that is wrong with the 1999 Constitution is the process by which it was made.

    When you come to the content, there are so many defects, so many faults. Is it the structure? Is it alright? We all seem to have agreed with the six zone structure. But then, what do you do with the 36 states? I think they should say. Then after that you talk about the structure of power between the centre and the zones or the regions. The structure of power is so terribly wrong. The constitution vested too much power at the centre, that’s what is killing us. That must be rectified. A lot of powers must be taken away from the centre and given to the zones or the states. You talk about fiscal federalism. Look at Section 162 of the 1999 Constitution and you ask yourself, is this a federal system and so much power over finance is vested in the centre? If I were to go through that section (162), there are 10 sub-sections, all geared towards giving fiscal power to the centre. That section must be completely abolished and replaced. So much is wrong with the 1999 Constitution in terms of content.

    From what I have been reading, it seems some people are agitating for equal representation at this year’s national conference. Given that your group is insisting on a conference of ethnic nationalities, have you worked out how the representation would be? Will the major ethnic nationalities like Ndigbo, Yoruba and Hausa/Fulani have equal representation with the smaller ethnic nationalities?

    Let me start by saying there is no problem that does not have a solution. There is always a solution to every problem if you apply your mind to it. Now, there are roughly, no one is certain about the number, but a research by Professor Ogigu Otite, an emeritus professor of the University of Ibadan, said there are 389 ethnic nationalities in Nigeria, some small, some large, like the Igbo, the Yoruba and the Hausa-Fulani, which are in millions in number. Ndigbo, for example, are, at least, 40 million and I believe there are more, scattered all over the place. Some of these 389 ethnic nationalities, according to Prof Otite, are so small that you will be doing a lot of violence to equity and justice if you say that four million people will have equal representation with ten thousand or one million. There are some that are much less than one million, recorded in terms of thousands. The ethnic minorities are demanding equality but surely, in doing this, you must be fair to everybody but fairness must not be carried to the point of gross injustice by saying that 40 million will have equal representation with ten thousand. So, this has to be worked out. There is always a solution to every problem.

    How long do you think it will take Nigeria to prepare and get a new constitution? I am asking this question because we are scheduled to have a general election next year.

    It won’t take long. For example, Ndigbo will, between today and tomorrow, conclude our position with regards to the type of constitution we want. We will print it in a book form and distribute it across the country. Other groups should do the same and we can then compare notes. From the position of each of the participating groups, we may accept some, reject some and marry the accepted positions together.

    Our position now is that Nigeria should call a conference to adopt a new constitution but apparently, the conference the federal government is going to convene is a mere talk shop not a national conference to adopt a new constitution. When they said they are calling a conference and that the conference will agree whether there will be a new constitution, it sounded very strange to me; it does not make much sense to me that you should first convene a conference of 500 people, which will decide whether we need a new constitution. What if the conference said yes, we need a new constitution, what happens? Do you at this stage convene another constitution since the former cannot proceed to adopt a new constitution after reaching the decision that we need a new constitution?

    On several occasions, we have had national conferences in Nigeria that amounted to nothing and as a result some people are insisting on Sovereign National Conference. Now, from the point of view of law and practicality, is it possible to have a Sovereign National Conference when there is a sitting government? If not, why is it that our governments always toy with this idea?

    The simple answer to your question is that it is not possible. That is why many people have abandoned the struggle for a Sovereign National Conference. You can’t have a Sovereign National Conference when there is a sitting sovereign national government. We do have today, a legal order. A legal order is established by a constitution, by institutions like the National Assembly, the Presidency, the Judiciary, the rule of law – these are some of the elements of a legal order. Once there is a legal order in existence, you cannot have a Sovereign National Conference. You will be contradicting yourself. These are two contradictory concepts. You must accept that there is a legal order in existence.

    Now, the concept of sovereignty includes political sovereignty, belonging to the people; we have legal sovereignty, vested in the government on behalf of the people. So, there is a sitting government, vested with legal sovereignty of the country and that is what we mean by saying there is an existing legal order. So, you can’t create a second sovereign body. This means that the whole idea of a Sovereign National Conference is a misconception; it’s a failure to understand the nature of what we have on ground. If you want to have a Sovereign National Conference as we have had in some African countries, you must overthrow the existing legal government.

    So, given this dilemma and the fact that Nigerians want a Sovereign National Conference that would have the power to…

    Don’t talk about Sovereign National Conference. I think, given the explanation I made earlier in this interview, we should be talking about a National Conference. We can’t have a Sovereign National Conference when we still have a legal order in existence. The solution is to have a genuine National Conference, where we will sit, discuss and agree on a new constitution. If the conference is not to discuss and agree on a new constitution, it’s a waste of time, as Afenifere has said, a waste of everybody’s time.

    Just before I leave the issue of national conference, how has your group been relating with other groups like Afenifere, which you just mentioned?

    Fortunately, the position of the Igbo Leaders of Thought has been accepted by the South-West, by the two groups of Afenifere; the Afenifere mainstream and the Afenifere Renewal. The South-South has adopted the same position, the Southern Nigerian People’s Assembly, led by Dr Alex Ekwueme for the South-East, Chief Edwin Clark for the South-South and Bishop Bolanle Gbonigi for the South-West, have also adopted the same position. The North-Central has also adopted the same position, so one can say we are relating well with other groups, at least on the issue of process. On the issue of content, we intend to send an outreach committee to go and talk with the other groups.

    Considering what is happening in Rivers State, an average man in Nigeria believes there is a complete breakdown of law and order there. From the point of view of the law, how would you describe the Rivers State situation?

    What is it that is happening in Rivers State? I mean in which aspect?

    I am talking about the relationship between the governor and the commissioner of police in the state. A situation where the police commissioner is demanding that the governor, who is supposed to be the chief security officer of the state, must obtain permission from the police before organising a rally? Is that right?

    Is that what the police commissioner is saying?

    Yes, he is saying that the law requires all citizens to obtain police permission before organising a rally but some people are arguing that the governor is the chief security officer of the state and as such does not need police permission. So, there is confusion.

    When you read the Igbo position on the new constitution, you will see that one of the things we said is wrong with the constitution is the arrangement with respect to the police. It is fundamentally faulty. The Constitution provides that in terms of the public order and public security, the command of the police is vested in the Inspector-General of Police. But the Constitution goes on in the same sections, 214 and 215, to provide that as concerns public order and public safety, that the president can give lawful direction to the commander of the police that is the Inspector-General of Police. Sub-section says in respect to public order and public safety, the governor can give lawful direction to the commissioner of police for the state. In other words, the Constitution recognises the governor of the state as the chief security officer of the state. It goes on to say, provided that the commissioner of police will, before carrying out the order of the governor, (make references) to the president.

    But in a situation of grave danger, the commissioner of police, must, as a matter of constitutional duty, carry out the orders of the governor. Otherwise, there will be fundamental contradiction. You said that this is the chief security officer of the state and you said the commissioner of police must refer to the president. The president is the chief security officer of the whole nation, but for the state, it is the governor. So, the whole arrangement is faulty. How can you have a chief security officer for a state and a mere state police commissioner begins to override him? It makes no sense.

    When you talk about a state, not just in terms of a state government, but a state as a concept, whether federal or state; the state by definition means a body, an entity that has the power, the coercive power to enforce, to maintain its existence as a government; to enforce its authority, to enforce its laws. Anybody, or entity that does not have that coercive power is not a state. So these things we have today are not states in the proper connotation because they don’t have coercive power. So, when it now gets to a situation where the governor of a state gives directive with regards to public order and public safety and a state police commissioner begins to override it, the only solution is to have state police. A state government must have a state police. That is the only way to reconcile the idea of a state. The state government must have a state police; otherwise, they cannot be referred to as states or governments. This is one of the things we are canvassing for – state police.

    There is also a raging controversy over threats to declare vacant the seats of some National Assembly members who defected from the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) to the All Progressives Congress (APC). From the point of view of the law, can the Senate President or any other official declare the seats of these elected officials vacant?

    When a member of the National Assembly or any other assembly member defects from the party on which platform he was elected to another party, his seat can be declared vacant. But there is an exception. If this defection is as a result of division, factionalisation within that party, then his seat cannot be declared vacant. So, it boils down to this, is there division, and is there factionalisation within the PDP? If there is, then their seats cannot be declared vacant. If there is no factionalisation, no division within the PDP, then they cannot defect without their seats being declared vacant. So, the onus would be on whoever that sues to prove whether there was factionalisation within the PDP.

    The Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) has just released the 2015 election timetable. Given the current political situation and the visible signals, do you think Nigeria would get a free, fair and credible election next year?

    It is difficult to predict. Whether the 2015 elections would be free, fair and credible depends on a lot of issues and the political situation then. We have not had free and fair election in this country because the stakes are too much. People are prepared to rig because of the high stakes and the high stakes are complicated by the political situation which creates this necessity for do or die. The election that is coming is an attempt or an opportunity to displace the PDP from its position of control or rulership. PDP has ruled the country up till now. If you are going to try to displace it, don’t expect that it would be a free easy ride. The PDP, according to the methods in this country, will not sit and watch you take power away from it. So, this is the factor that will affect the elections. It is the factor that will go to a considerable extent to determine whether the election would be free and fair.

    This year, the country will be celebrating its centenary; it’s 100 years as a country. As one of the few elites that have seen it all, can you assess how we have fared as a nation?

    I have written an article on this before where I disagreed with the idea of celebrating the so-called centenary. What are we celebrating? Is it our enslavement? Before 1914, the different segments of Nigeria had been colonised and so in 1914, the colonisation of these different segments was consummated by the amalgamation. So, the amalgamation marked the real colonisation of Nigeria. It marked the origin of our enslavement. You know what colonisation means; it means enslavement. It means you are a slave and ruled as a subject nation, as a subject entity from 1914 to 1960 when the country gained independence. All the deprivations, all the degradations involved in colonisation, we suffered for those long years. Is it what we are celebrating? Secondly, what did amalgamation bring in its wake? A North-South divide, a North-South dichotomy, is the greatest obstacle to the unity of Nigeria. Yes! Take the north, they now see themselves as a separate group, their vision, their attitude, their outlook are different, notwithstanding that what they call the north or northern Nigeria is an artificial creation of British colonialism. As a journalist, you should know; think of all the many problems we have in this country and you will agree that the greatest of all the problems is the North-South divide, the North-South dichotomy. It is the greatest problem we have for Nigerian unity. We have Arewa, which means Northern Nigeria. We have Arewa Consultative Forum, etc and recently, in 2012 the formation of the Southern Nigeria Peoples Assembly. That completes the dichotomy between the north and the south, creating attitudes, different divergent attitudes and visions and aspirations in the people. Is that what we are celebrating – the creation of this divide by the British colonialist, who fostered and handed it down from generation to generation up till now. Tell me what amalgamation has brought that we are celebrating? Yes, it brought the two entities, northern and southern Nigeria, together; is that what we are celebrating?

    Can you also comment on the fortunes of the Igbo people in the Nigerian project. You know how the race started out and where they are today. Some people said Ndigbo lost out at some point. Is that true, if so, at what point did they lose out and is there any hope for them?

    For the Igbo in Nigeria, we have suffered a setback as you said. And if you ask me, I will trace the origin of the set back to the civil war. Yes, that is what has brought about this set back and Ndigbo must strive hard to correct the set back. I believe that all hopes are not lost. Ndigbo can still regain their lost position and glory in this country.

  • Waiting for coal

    Waiting for coal

    Will production of coal ever be possible to generate electricity in the country? Edozie Udeze who was in Enugu, reports

    THE use of coal to generate energy is not new in the country. Many years ago, it was the sole source of energy supply, particularly in the Eastern and Middle-Belt parts of the country. Both marine and locomotive engines used by the ships and rail trains were equally dependent on coal.

    Dons Eze, a specialist on the history of Enugu and coalfields said, “When the colonial masters were here coal was not only equitably distributed in Nigeria for power generation, they also began to export it to Britain as from 1917. Now, coal is being neglected because of the discovery of oil and gas. But we have plenty of coal deposits which we can tap along with oil and other resources to give this nation a huge leap in terms of industrialization. I know that with coal, the issue of power failure may not always occur.”

     

    New thinking

    Tony Ebodighi, an engineer and the Assistant General Manager in-charge of technical services at the Enugu Electricity Distribution Company (EEDC), admitted that although their main brief is to distribute electricity to consumers, they are not totally divorced from power generation. “To me, coal is very vital and necessary for a stable power supply in the whole areas that we cover,” he said. The company’s responsibility is to supply power to the five states of the South-East.

    He went on to explain the processes of heating up coal to produce electricity. “Coal is a hard black mineral that is found below the ground and when properly burnt, it produces energy. It can also be used as fuel when it is properly fired to a point of crescendo. You also have coal-gas which is a mixture of gases produced from coal, that can safely be used for electricity and heating.”

    Both he and Eze agreed however, that Nigeria’s coal is the best and most naturally refined in the world and when in use, countries like Britain, China, Canada, South Africa, India and others which still use coal for power generation may have the need to import our coal. At the moment, China which is the largest consumer of coal in the world does not have enough.

    Under the current arrangement, coal mining and application will not be mechanically produced as in the past. Ebodighi clarified. “It is good because the fear of pollution will not be entertained. The latest technology can take care of that. Again, cases of vandalism will not arise because the coalfields are within the reach of those who work there. The heating process will take place there too. The process is like a conversion where the heated vapour is sent to the turbine. When this is done, then you send it to the transformer which is then used to step it up. You need to treat coal to that level when the required voltage is applied to power energy.”

    He said the whole process of heating, mining, power generation and distribution can be automated in line with modern technology. “What we are saying is that since coal deposit is available in great quantity in Nigeria, we can safely resort to that source of technology. It is a very cheap source of power generation. Indeed, it requires little or no hard efforts to heat coal to a point of power generation.”

    Unfortunately, the process may take a little time to materialize since the coalfields have to be sold by BPE first before the new owners can go into partnership or have a working agreement with EEDC. Commenting on this, Evarist Ibe, the Managing Director of Nigeria Coal Corporation said: “Yes, the coalfields have to be privatised first. We are in the process of doing so now, although the process itself is a bit slow in coming.” According to him, it is government’s intention to encourage the new owners to go into productions that will lead to power generation. “The new owners will be the ones to give power to EEDC for distribution and we still believe that coal is the answer.”

    Ibe’s contention also seems to be in tandem with the views of Eugene Anionwu, the Public Relations Manager of EEDC. He said, “We came on board in November 2013 and took over PHCN, Enugu zone. The federal government has mandated us to market power and distribute electricity. We receive power from transmission stations. We still do that from Egbin, Jebba Hydro station and a little from Oji River. But this is not enough and that is why we don’t have enough to distribute. If coal is made available and since it is in abundance here within our domain, power generation will be made lots easier for us to distribute. At this point in time, our consumers are not happy simply because we do not have sufficient energy to share and market.”

    He went on, “you may think we are not directly concerned or involved in production. This may be so but what we do is a long process that involves both the producer and the marketer. Yes, we know that coal is a raw material for so many things. We used to have it at Oji River power station. We have to resort to it now although it is not our primary job at the EEDC. Even in South Africa, they still have coal miners. So we can also revive our own coal and then employ workers to mine them. All I know is that the technology can be improved upon so that the workers may not have to face the archaic or crude ways of digging and bringing coal to the surface.”

    When coal eventually comes back on board to serve the energy sector in whatever capacity, both the federal and state governments should hands off the ownership of the operational tendencies of the new era. Eze who reasoned that most companies such as Oji River Terminal Power Station, the Nigerian Cement Company, Nkalagu, the Marines, The Nigerian Railway Corporation etc, hitherto ran by government were either allowed to die or had their operational mechanisms changed or disrupted. In the process, no one is the wiser for it. “Therefore, government which is considered a bad manager of public institutions should hasten to privatise the coalfields. If you make individuals to own and run this business it will certainly benefit Nigerians and that has always been our argument. Government should not wholly own or run coalfields,” he further reiterated.

    He nonetheless commended government for its tenacity of purpose in terms of the privatization of electricity but quickly noted that the same has to be done to the coalmines so that both can effectively work hand-in-hand to provide light for the nation. Let us use coal to also power some of our industries and effectively move away from solely dependent on oil for energy. I was in Poland a few years ago and visited some of their plants where coal is still in use. We need to understudy that to have a modern technology suitable for our own environment, local consumptions and needs. Let our engineers go there to see how it is done in a more modernized form for our domestic and industrial needs,” he said, beaming with smiles.

    A cross section of Enugu residents who spoke to The Nation welcomed the idea of the resuscitation of the coal mines, saying that it would discourage people from cutting trees for firewood. In the words of Nkechi, a housewife, “you see, government cannot be said to be concerned about desert encroachment when there are no viable alternative means of cooking by housewives. If the coal industry is revived, we can always buy it for cooking. That will also help to stop the ceaseless cutting of trees which, as you know, contributes to erosion and desert encroachment.”

    People are also afraid that whenever the coal pits are opened, they may unleash wild and dangerous animals into the nearby streets. “You know all the sites have been abandoned long ago. And people who live near the places complain about some dangerous reptiles that live in the holes inside the pits.”Ikenna Okeke, a resident of coal camp confided in this reporter.

    Okeke also pointed out that most of the sites have been vandalized and that government would end up spending a lot of money when the time comes. It was discovered that soon after the thing was closed down in 2005 some villagers invaded the mines at night and made away with some of the equipments.

    And this may be why most key observers and energy players are of the opinion that government should hasten efforts towards the privatization of the sector. This way more damages would be avoided while steady electricity supply is guaranteed.

  • Irebosa Igbinedion finds love

    Irebosa Igbinedion finds love

    IREBOSA, daughter of the former governor of Edo State, Chief Lucky Igbinedion, has been romantically linked with son of former Deputy Senate President, Ibrahim Mantu. Though the affair is still shrouded in secrecy, the younger Mantu, we gathered, has been spoiling the Igbinedion girl silly with cash and gifts.

    Busybodies swore that two years ago, the younger Mantu threw an exclusive birthday bash for Irebosa and it had in attendance silver spoons of their kind.

  • Udoamaka Onuigbo yet to find her feet

    Udoamaka Onuigbo yet to find her feet

    TWO years after she was released from prison in the United Kingdom, Udoamaka Okoronkwo-Onuigbo, the celebrated mistress of former Delta State governor, Chief James Ibori, is yet to find her feet.

    Part of her problem, we gathered, is not unconnected with the stigma of ex-convict which she is battling with. Apart from this, busybodies said her wine retail business was not well managed while she was in UK and ever since she returned, she has been struggling to revive it.

    Onuigbo, who had a child for Ibori, was found guilty on a three-count charge of money laundering in June 2010 and was sentenced to five years in prison by Judge Christopher Hardy of a Southwark London Crown Court.

  • Akinwumi Dickson throws party

    Akinwumi Dickson throws party

    AKINWUMI Dickson, one-time private secretary to Chief (Mrs.) H.I.D Awolowo and also publisher of Lagos-based marketing and brand communications journal, Brandcampaign, celebrated his 47th birthday last weekend. The birthday boy played host to friends at a small gig. The Iloro-Ekiti-born graduate of Sociology and Journalism also used the opportunity to celebrate the success of his publication which has become acceptable in the marketing communication world. Dickson is also set to partner Junior Chamber International, Port Harcourt to commemorate the thirtieth anniversary of the worldwide recognised leadership development organisation for youths within 18 and 40 years.

  • ‘Most mega churches are dying from within’

    ‘Most mega churches are dying from within’

    Africa’s leading Church growth consultant, Dr Francis Akin-John, believes many churches are dying contrary to popular opinions that churches are mushrooming. He spoke with Sunday Oguntola on this and others. Excerpts:

    Don’t you ever get tired of holding conferences?

    No, we can’t. You know why? Because there are always issues in churches and ministries for which leaders must be trained and addressed. As you are tackling one, others are emerging. So, that is why we hold two major conferences in a year. In February, we focus on church renewal and look at issues like church growth, church health, church renewal and all others.

    By August/September, we focus on the leaders of churches and ministries. We call it International Church Leaders Conference. That is when we look at their lifestyles, mindsets, trainings, empowerment and other issues.

    So, what is the focus of this particular conference?

    This time around, the theme is church/ministry turnaround. You know everyone believes we have big and mega churches inside. Everyone believes the church in Nigeria is growing but our research revealed the contrary. Many of our mega churches are dying inside.

    Also, the small ones are folding up. Some are at the verge of closing down. If you consider many of our mega churches, you only find big structures. But when you get inside, you find that the level of discipleship, love, commitment and even fellowship among members is poor.

    The major emphasis in our churches today is praise and worship as well as collecting tithes and offering. Discipleship has become non-existent. So, we are looking at how we can do God’s church and not our churches. We want to look at the biblical ways of doing church in terms of righteousness and commitment to God.

    How do you mean churches are dying when many assemblies are opening up at every corner of the nation?

    You see, it is very easy to see the mushrooming of churches. But historically, you find out many of the churches that existed about 15-20 years ago are no longer around. There used to be this church that was using the National Stadium in Lagos for programmes with headquarters somewhere in Iganmu. The preacher was everywhere and popular. Today, that church has become a carcass. The church had about 500 branches in Lagos alone. But where are they today?

    There was another church in Lekki that was the biggest in Lagos in the 90s. Today, the church has died with the founder. It even died before the founder died. There are Sundays I drive round churches and I see most of them half-filled. That is the truth. We may have like two or three mega churches with crowd. But the bulk of our mega churches are dying. Churches are closing shops and only the enlightened can see that.

    But let’s even leave that, how about spirituality? How godly are the ones in the church. So, even if we have a crowd and the society does not feel our impact, then we are dying. Almost every day, people are walking away from churches because of abuses and corrupt leadership. Spiritually speaking, churches are dying and becoming secular. People are in churches but not in Christ.

    You go round on Sundays, does that mean you don’t have a local church you are a part of?

    No, I have a local church that I attend with my family. I have a general overseer who understands my calling and allows me to operate with independence. When he does not see me in church, he knows I must be on the field, gathering information and conducting research. But even when I am not there, my family is always around.

    I have to move round because this is my calling and I have to work on it. But when I am around, I am an ordinary church member. You know it took me years to find such a church. Many pastors were threatened by my presence and thought I was around to criticise or take over from them.

    But this general overseer is different. He understands. He attends our conferences and sometimes ministers. When he does not, he listens to teachings and we have mutual respect for each other. You know, sometimes he asks me what I find about the church and I point out my observations. He corrects some of those things and I don’t make a boast of it in anyway.

    Are you getting results from these conferences?

    My brother, we are getting testimonies, I must confess. People are becoming enlightened and changing things in their churches. God is moving really, though they can appear like small drops in an ocean.

    What is your opinion on how headquarters treat local branches? It is appalling, to say the least. Many of the headquarters treat local assemblies like supermarkets where they pick whatever they need anytime. You know most headquarters collect 100 % of total realisable incomes from local branches. They don’t pay the pastors well while local assemblies are denied initiatives to run things the way that suit their localities.

    The issue of pastoral transfers is also contentious. Do you think pastors should stay in local assemblies as long as is necessary or they should be moved frequently?

    You see churches have different policies and minds on this issue. My take is that when pastors stay long in local churches, things are more stable. In Baptist churches, for example, the assemblies are more stable and the pastors more relaxed to operate because he knows he is there, provided the church is growing and he stays out of money and women problems. The only thing that can take him out of the church is when he has quarrels with the executive council or God asks him to move elsewhere.

    But in indigenous Pentecostal churches, the issue is tough. You see the transfer policy creating bad blood and ill-feelings. I believe you don’t need to transfer a pastor once the church is growing and God is at work. As long as the members are not complaining and they love him, as long as he does not have moral and financial issues, then you don’t need to transfer him for God’s sake…

    …But the argument is such a functional pastor should go to a new ground and replicate the same feat…

    … No, no, no. Such transfer kills the local assemblies and hurts people. You see sheep follow shepherds. When a pastor has been around for years, he has people willing to follow him wherever he goes. It kills the spiritual lives of members when there is high turnover of pastors. You can only justify transfer when the pastor is living in sins or he has run out of resources and messages. When the membership keeps going down, you can move him. But if not, leave the man for God’s sake.

    You find out that in most cases we transfer pastors with 5,000 members to churches with 100 or 200 members. You have limited that pastor for God’s sake. You have demoted him. You have reduced his resources and capacity. You should have transferred upcoming pastors to such small assemblies, not the other way round.

    The signing of the anti-gay bill into law has generated a lot of criticisms. How do you respond to them?

    You will notice most of the criticisms are coming from western nations. Many of them have even threatened to stop grants and aids to us. My attitude is that they can stop their aids. Who benefits from them anyway? Do these grants get to common Nigerians?

    So, the law is a step in the right direction. It is not the only moral issue in the world. So, why are western interests so interested in it if there is nothing behind it? We saw how God rained fire and brimstones on Sodom and Gomorrah; the people that really started it. If God dealt with them that way, why do we want to go that way too?

    But can government legislate on morality and hasn’t the law violated fundamental human rights?

    On morality, government is responsible to fight immoralities in any society. When people are going haywire, government can clean up. It doesn’t mean people won’t still do it but the law instills fear into those who do it. Stealing is also a moral issue. So, why are we not worried there are laws against it?

    On human rights, I believe it is a good argument but we can’t allow people to live freely without restraints. There will always be infringement on human rights, especially when they help society. You see homosexuals breed sexual predators that we cannot afford around here. The government should create fear in people’s hearts that when they are caught, they will be in trouble. It is the duty of government to correct morals and even check people when they are behaving like animals and going out of line.

    What would be the ideal policy on remittances to headquarter churches?

    The ideal policy would be self-autonomy for local churches. I wish every church leader can practise this. The church in Jerusalem did not put any financial burden on the church in Antioch despite being the mother-church. When there was famine, the Antioch brethren, on their own, supported the Jerusalem church. This practice of having local churches as supermarkets that send their total incomes to the headquarters is wrong. It kills local churches and that is why many are opening branches.

    God wants the local assemblies to be vibrant. Denominational leaders should practise the maxim: let go and let God. The ideal is for local assemblies to send at least 20 percent to the headquarters after three or four years so that they would have stabilised. If a new company comes to town, even government gives them tax holiday. Why can’t we do the same in churches? Why is it that when a branch starts from today, they send all they generate to the headquarters?

    When our church leaders complain about Nigeria, I laugh a lot. Most of the problems in this country are spill-over of what people learnt from churches. The problem of over-centralisation was what the church handed over to the political structure. That is why in most headquarters churches, there is so much stealing because they don’t do anything with the money. Rather, they keep making more and spending nothing.

  • Salamatu Lafiaji quits matrimonial home

    Salamatu Lafiaji quits matrimonial home

    SALAMATU Lafiaji, the daughter of former Kwara State governor, Senator Shaaba Lafiaji, has quit her matrimonial home. Informed sources disclosed that Salamatu started having problems in her marriage to Nollywood actor, Ibrahim Chatta, few weeks after their wedding in April last year. Salamatu, who comes from a wealthy home, we gathered, was not too comfortable with the living conditions in Chatta’s home, and this put a strain on the relationship. When hope of improved condition was not visible, she moved out a few weeks ago.

    Shortly after their wedding, there have been insinuations that the actor may have dumped his wife for Salamatu because of her background.

  • Latter-Day Saints preaches peace, family values

    The Church of Latter-Day Saints has admonished Nigerians to embrace peace and promote the core values of family.

    A visiting laity of the church, Whitney Clayton, made the call last Sunday at the Lagos Nigeria West Stake Convention.

    Clayton, who is the president of the Seventy, a top hierarchy in the church, said running a godly family is the responsibility of every Christian.

    He also called on the participants to be involved in charities and social actions.

    “Be socially involved in people’s lives. It is only people you get involved in their lives that will become involved in your life,” he said.

    Host of the Stake conference, and President of the Lagos Nigeria West Stake, Christian Chigbundu, said the Lagos Nigeria West Stake, which is like a Diocese is made up of 11 congregations.

    Chigbundu stated that the church completed approximately 140 different projects in Nigeria, representing about 50,000 hours of volunteer service.

    He said the church is not relenting in its humanitarian services as well as missionary works that will benefit people.

    The African West Area President, Elder LeGrand Curtis, who also attended the convention in company of his wife, said he was pleased with the attitude of the Church in Nigeria.

    This, he said, is why the church is experiencing immense growth in the nation.

  • Okonkwo, Bismark: We’d resist pressure on same-sex

    The western campaign against the same-sex law recently signed by President Goodluck Jonathan will amount to nothing.

    This was the consensus last week at the council of African Apostles, an interdenominational ministerial body that met in Lagos.

    The council, which boasts of leading preachers like Dr Mike Okonkwo (Nigeria), Bishop Tudor Bismark (Zimbabwe), Dr Mensa Otabil (Ghana) and Bishop Joe Imakando (Zambia), among others, converged at the headquarters of The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM) for an apostolic impartation.

    The meeting coincided with the conclusion of the 21-day fasting and prayer by TREM for the redemption of Nigeria.

    Speaking with reporters, the chairman of the council, Bishop Tudor Bismark, said Africans are united in their resolve to stop the importation of the same-sex culture to the continent by western forces.

    Bismark said regardless of the pressure, Africa will never succumb to supporting same-sex or encouraging the practice, saying the Bible is very clear on the issue.

    He said church leaders on the continent will mobilise their members and lobby government officials to resist the pressure to bow.

    According to him: “African Christians are united in their responses and attitudes. We know that this is an agenda that is packaged as a human right issue. We are aware of where this is coming from and prepared to resist them.”

    Okonkwo added that those into homosexuality and lesbianism cannot be allowed to live anyhow and destroy the nation.

    He dismissed talks about the law infringing on fundamental human rights, saying no one can be allowed to engage in acts capable of destroying the nation.

    Okonkwo said: “The Bible is very clear on gay issue. He made them male and female. We do not support homosexuality and there are no two ways around it.

    “They can’t live the way they like because there are things that destroy a nation. If you are talking about laws that have been signed that also infringed on fundamental human rights, there are many.

    “This is not just about that but a fundamental, moral issue that can destroy a nation. I am standing with the president on the position he has taken.”

    On the proposed national conference, the presiding Bishop of TREM said talking is important to a peaceful coexistence, saying Nigerians have bottled up too much and deserve to be heard.

    He acknowledged the conference might be hijacked but said it should be given a chance.

    Okonkwo explained: “Yes, somehow it will be the usual way they do things in Nigeria. They might try to hijack certain things but I don’t think it will be totally out of place for people to talk. No matter what, there will be still some things that will be discussed that can still be helpful.”

  • Nigeria will end well, says cleric

    The general overseer of Christ Miracle Church Mission (CMCM) Lagos, Prophet Peter Adebisi, has stated that the current volatile socio-political situations will not consume the nation.

    He spoke at a thanksgiving ceremony to mark his 51st birthday at the church’s headquarters recently.

    According to him: “I’ve said it times without number that God has told me Nigeria will be the number one nation in Africa. Every potential destiny we have, no matter what we are going through, is not predicting our end.

    “The fact that you are in one trouble or one problem or the other does not mean that the end has come. I’ve prayed and God told me that Nigeria is going to end well no matter the difficulty and crisis we are going through at the moment.”

    On his rickety childhood, Adebisi said: “If God created you to be a great person the devil will want a way to truncate your success.

    “I was born a thug from my town in Ila Orangun. I smoked Indian hemp and did all manner of things. I was a real thug. The devil knew what God had in store for me and tried to destroy it. But thank God He set me free.

    “Every destiny is like that. I went through a lot of things to the extent that my mother said to me: ‘I am tired of you. If I had known that this is what you would become I would have terminated your pregnancy or got you killed while you were young.’

    “But thank God; today I am not only a prophet to my town alone but a prophet to the nation. When God created you to be great, the devil will work against it; that is exactly what is happening to our nation.

    “Jesus went through storms and was not consumed by it. He went over it and Nigeria will cross over these entire crises. We are crossing over it.”

    He advised politicians not to allow their ambitions to override the interest of the country, insisting that only God gives power.

    “What will be will be. It is high time our politicians knew that God is the distributor; he is the giver of power. When we come to the level of this understanding we won’t be killing ourselves because of our selfish ambitions.

    “What has not been destined for you to achieve, no matter how you try to force yourself to get it, you will be forced out. So, my advice for everyone is to wait on God and allow God to take them to where he planned for them.”