Former Anambra State Governor, Dr. Chiwonke Mbadinuju, has expressed serious concern over the worrisome state of insecurity in the country. In this interview with INNOCENT DURU, he speaks on the attitude of Northern leaders to Boko Haram and bares his mind on other burning national issues. Excerpts:
When President Goodluck Jonathan declared state of emergency in three northern states, the menace of Boko Haram died down for some time but later came up again after the President felt the country was winning the war against terrorism.
What in your opinion is actually the problem?
One hardly finds the President of a country who says it is easy job ruling his people.
President Jonathan may not be an exception, more so when he is not only saddled with problems of infrastructure, security and welfare and so many other needs then from nowhere he was suddenly confronted with the war of insurgency of a most vicious type as was never seen in Nigeria.
I believe Nigerians never bargained for what we are witnessing today in the form of a war of attrition imposed on us by Boko Haram insurgents without warning, and even took unawares our well trained army, navy, air force, police and other security agencies.
President Jonathan came into office from one crisis to another: from acting president to
a “doctrine of necessity” to become President.
I don’t know if Jonathan has in fact enjoyed the office of the President since his ascendancy.
But he can take solace in the saying that ‘uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’.
Having seen Nigeria gradually being overrun by insurgent Boko Haram and quickly took control of three states of Bornu, Yobe and Adamawa, Nigerians immediately knew that the game was up and that we must be able tomatch the invaders one on one and out run and out class them, at least so we thought. It easily became an internecine warfare and none could predict when and how the end would come. Nigerians were dying in their hundreds in churches, mosques; army and police headquarters not exempted. The die was cast.
Jonathan must have decided to take the bull by the horn and without further equivocation, he quickly declared state of emergency in the three states mentioned above.
Thereafter, there was a sigh of relief, Nigerians greeted Jonathan for the masterpiece steps he took as many foreign countries began sending him congratulatory messages while many thought the worst would soon be over. It was not.
The Northern Elders were bewildered and consistently called for amnesty. The President hesitated a bit but obliged them their request and immediately set up a committee headed by the Hon. Minister for Special Duties, Turaki, (SAN). Everyone thought that the solution had finally come but the euphoria was short-lived.
Not much came out of this. But even wives and children and relations of Boko Haram were released from detention in the hope that this would assuage the feelings of parties on both sides, still killings continued. The JTF did the best any trained security group could do to achieve good and lasting result, but with not much result in terms of the objectives of
government.
Even when the ‘Civilian JTF’ volunteered their services to complament the efforts of JTF, hundreds of the young people were massacred in the war front and in cold blood. It was a good gesture and good effort but not the type government had in mind for a lasting solution. That dream died faster than it was conceived.
In the final analys, is no one could sincerely blame Jonathan or his government for having not done enough. Even America, both at home and in the middle-East, Britain in Northern Ireland, Turkey, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, and other countries fought insurgents but failed even till today. This nevertheless is a passing stage all over the world. Nigeria did not deserve anything like this, more so whentrue Nigerians were never insurgents. Our problems were rather imported from abroad and they were meant to destabilise our country. The beginning of the solution to this big problem is to first of all trust our President and his administration that they are doing their best under the circumstance, knowing that this is a wide-world phenomenon. Do you think the problem is being fuelled by anything the northern elite and leaders ought to have done but have left undone?
It is good you mentioned Northern elite and leaders in respect of the problem of Boko Haram in Nigeria, particularly in the North East of the country. Why I seem to like the Northern elite and leaders is mainly because they seem to know their destination and how best to get there. They are not like men who are in a hurry but choose a longer route. They often try to hit the nail on the head.
But the only time they seem to have missed the mark is on the issue of this Boko Haram.
The gravine had it that some people actually encouraged Boko Haram in their bid to stop
President Jonathan’s second term bid.
Some of the Northern leaders have opposed almost every move Jonathan has made to carry out his programme of tranformation.
Thus, when President Jonathan declared state of emergency in the three North Eastern states, even foreign nations commended him but the Northern leaders rebuffed it and opposed him. The Northern leaders furthermore called for amnesty for Boko Haram as was done for the South-South militants. But surprisingly when President Jonathan bent backwards to appease them and granted Boko Haram the amnesty, they were the same people that turned round and rejected amnesty; even a faction of Boko Haram turned round and rejected amnesty, saying it was the government that needed it. This cat and mouse game did not show seriousness on the part of some of the Northern leaders.
It is this prevarication that delayed the full implementation of government’s programme for full eradication of the hideous Boko Haram sect. As it is now, only few people will believe that it is not the Northern leaders that are in a way fuelling the activities of the sect.
I recently read President Jonathan’s statement in the press that the Boko Haram is giving Nigeria bad name. So the question is, when will this be over? But for me, and majority of the good people in this country, I say that it shall surely be well with us. Indeed we will wait and see the magic wand the Northern leaders will use in driving out Boko Haram from Nigeria when it is the turn of the North to rule Nigeria.
What is your take on the Nigerian Governors’ Forum crisis? Why has it degenerated to the point it is now?
Indeed, the ‘Nigerian Governors’ Forum’ (NGF) is a good thing and a good concept for Nigeria’s political and economic development as the governors activities complement those of the National Assembly (NASS), as well as the policies of the President. But as we know, absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is the sad aspect of the NGF today. In fact, I was in the first set of governors that started the NGF in 1999 smoothly without the hiccups we have noticed recently.
Still, we don’t throw away the baby with the bath water. If the present governors know ‘from where they had fallen, they should repent and do the first works’ as in the Book of Revelations 2:5.
In governance, the co-operation of the three arms of government is absolutely necessary. No one arm can govern alone under our constitution: not the Executive, neither the Legislature nor the Judiciary. The wheel of the nation’s administration cannot run smoothly without the three in motion. It seems, therefore, that while the Legislature has constitutional oversight function over the Executive, the Governors Forum does not have such function or powers.
The governors in their forum tend to keep penetrating into the activities of the Executive, tending to pry deeper and deeper beyond constitutional limits. Where this happens, the Executive is bound to kick and to complain, leading to frictions as each branch continues to guard its powers jealously. An example is the Sovereign Wealth Fund (SWF). The fund is an innovation that would benefit all Nigerians, but the governors politicised it. I often use the analogy of the children who were hungry and their father wanted the whole yam in the house cooked so that children would feed well for that day. But their mother objected and proceeded to cook only some and kept the rest for the rainy day. The mother here taught a good lesson that we should not consume all we have, and all at the same time.
Let us immediately look at the face-off between the President, Dr. Goodluck Jonathan, the First Lady,Dame Patience, and the Minister of State for Education, Nyesom Wike, on the one hand and Governor Rotimi Amaechi of Rivers State, on the other hand? What do you think is amiss?
It is, in fact, revolting to me and to all rightthinking persons to lump together President Jonathan, his wife, and a Minister of State (Education) and squared them up with Governor Amaechi of Rivers State. We must learn in this country to give honour to whom it is due. We as people must learn to respect our leaders and not use foul language against them. If we are not able to respect our President and leaders in this country, then we should not expect foreigners to respect them, or even respect Nigeria for that matter.
Finally, if I were Governor Amaechi, I will not wait for the Presidency to approach me for settlement of any rift. Rather I will seek audience to see the President and apologise and ask him what I would do to restore the former good relationship. What I am saying is not theory. It happened to me as governor when our great party leader ‘single-handedly’ stopped me from my second-term bid. Not only that, I was blackmailed and wrongly accused of a crime I never committed and the same party leader believed the accusation against me by my opponents; I was nearly killed for a crime I knew nothing about.
But after I was set free, I took time to visit Baba twice in his hill-top mansion, Abeokuta Ogun State, and slept in his room the two days I visited him and was well received with sumptuous meals. Furthermore, my said leader also allowed me to give ‘words of exhortation’ to worshipers in his Chapel at Abeokuta. At the end, he told the congregation that the problem was from my people and that he had forgiven me over all that was done to me. Everyone in the chapel rejoiced.
A friend I told of this encounter asked: Who should forgive whom? Should it be my leader who wronged me or me who was wronged?
We laughed over it, as I told him that I could not be greater than my leader and master.
That was how we reconciled. Things like that should be examples in similar situations. At least, I am alive today, healthy and still being politically relevant. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?
The PDP has been enmeshed in series of crises in recent times. Why is the house divided against itself?
For PDP, the house has not quite divided.
Don’t forget that PDP has built and maintained a very large empire for all and sundry to take shelter under the umbrella. When it is said that PDP is the biggest party in Africa, it makes sense. The bigger the party the bigger the trouble. But the PDP’s trouble does not affect winning in election. The party knows how to close ranks when the chips and down.
The PDP house may have divided but not against itself as your question seems to suggest.
As for the party and its electoral gain, I say that the taste of the pudding shall be in the eating.
Even from the so-called ‘noise’ emanating from the camp of the Nigerian Governors
Forum (NGF), it should not worry anyone.
The ‘noise’ represents activities like in a factory, if there is no noise as you approach a factory, it means there is no production going on, and the factory is dormant. But if there is noise, it shows factory is at work and producing.
In fact, for a factory, the louder the noise the better for it and so it is with the NGF.
Noise- making is not always a bad thing.
From all we are seeing, the polity appears to have been heated up ahead of the 2015 elections, what does this portend for the country and our democracy?
They are the politicians that try to over-heat the polity by their actions and utterances. If politicians play according to rules of the game, it will be seen that politics can be an interesting game, but shifting the goal post in the middle of a match is nothing but stealing.
When once politicians discard the rule of law, equity and due process and begin to carry ballot boxes and writing results and heaping cash at the door steps of voters to entice them, it means the voters have deviated from the norms of democracy. The 2015 elections may be different, even if better than the earlier 2011 election adjudged to be the fairest as was promised by President Jonathan himself.
However, we hope is not lost.
Some sections of the North have demanded for the return of the presidency to the region in 2015. Do you share their sentiment?
You talk of the presidency ‘returning’ to the North when the South East has indeed not tasted the office at all. I am not saying the North won’t take their turn but it will be at a due time. I believe in one thing at a time. Let Jonathan complete his second tenure first; then the South-South will know they have taken their due share. The next issue will be between the North that has had three civilian heads of state and several military heads of state, and the South-East which has not tasted the office for the first time. Between the North and South-East, where will equity and fairness lie?
Will equity be in favour of those who have produced the President and several Heads of State, or will equity be in favour of the South-East that has not had even one President?
There is no need assuming that immediately the South-South finishes, it will rotate to the North. To such an assumption, Zebrudaya would say emphatically, ‘Fa-fa-fa-fa-foul o’!
When the time comes to decide, all the six zones shall come together and discuss the merits and demerits of which zone shall get the slot. Let it not be said that it is a forgone conclusion that the rotation will go to the North.
Suppose it goes to South-East? So what? Do you think the choice of Dr. Umaru Dikko as the chairman of the Disciplinary Committee of the PDP is a welcome idea?
Umaru Dikko is one of the best politicians and administrators produced by this country and nurtured by former President Alhaji Shehu Shagari of the Second Republic. I worked as and Assistant to the then Vice-President, Dr. Alex I. Ekwueme in Shagari’s Administration and I had occasions to interact with Umaru Dikko who was the Minister of Transport and who ably handled the distribution of rice and other scarce commodities made available through his office to all the needy in all parts of the country.
For the PDP to appoint Dikko to head the disciplinary committee and for him to accept to chair the committee is a plus for the party. I only pray that his health is good enough to handle the tedious assignment.
I know Dikko to be fair-minded and dedicated to whatever assignment was given to him, he discharged them creditably. So he is indeed a ‘fit and proper’ person to do the job and do it well without fear or favour.
Recently, Senator Arthur Nzeribe said the South East has nothing to show for the support it gave to President Jonathan. Do you feel the same way?
My good friend, the distinguished Senator Arthur Nzeribe is an enigma. Even out of government, he is still quite in touch with everything happening around him. Like Zik of Africa, Arthur maintains a library of files of ‘who is who’ in many spheres of endeavour. If you mention a person, or bring up a topic, Arthur will give you a rundown of the person or of the event and its chronology. At a time his health was somehow, but now he is rejuvenated. One can understand when I described him as an enigma.Recently, he gave an interview in which he advised the Igbo to forget the 2015 presidential election. Arthur says his mind not minding whose ox is gored. A debate between Arthur and my other good friend, Orji Uzor Kalu, also another enigma, will be interesting.
A debate of these two accomplished politicians on the plight of Igbo and how they can come into the main stream of Nigerian politics will be in order. But Orji Uzor Kalu believes that Igbo deserves to be given the chance in 2015, while Arthur felt that Igbo deserve the presidency but not in 2015. The debate shall go on as it has been every four years. One of these days, it must be the time of the Igbo to take their turn, and when that time comes, no human being can stop the move.
As for whether President Jonathan deserves further support by the Igbo and whether he has done enough for the South East to vote for him again in 2015, that will be a matter for further debate. But for me, it is fate that brought Jonathan in as President of this country. When he was Deputy Governor in Bayelsa State, little did he know that he would be governor, and from being governor, he became Vice-President, and then Acting President; and finally President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, whoever assisted him to succeed must have been used of God, and should not boast.
Would it be in the interest of the region to support him again if he wants to go for a second term and what would that mean for the chances of the region to have one of his own to occupy the nation’s number one seat?
Actually, President Jonathan has not declared that he would run for second term, though he kept saying that he will reveal his plans in the year 2014. So, we need to respect his decision and wait; 2014 is just around the corner and he will tell Nigerians why he wants second term, whether it is by the constitution or by virtue of his accomplishments in office in the first term of four years. The time is at hand. He already presented his mid-term accomplishments. To me, it will not be fair for the Igbo to abandon Jonathan if he decides to run for second term, but we’ll wait and see what happens or develops.
What is your take on the forthcoming governorship election in Anambra State?
There are major political parties competing for the office of Governor of Anambra State.
APGA is the present ruling party. It is followed by the PDP, the Labour, and APC (not in a particular order). As a PDP stalwart, I will do all I can to make sure the PDP candidate wins back Anambra State, which I first ‘captured in 1999, and it got lost through political intrigues and inordinate ambition. This is the much I can say now, but I sincerely believe that the bones shall rise again. It is well.
