Category: Worship

The founder of the Evangelical Church of Yahweh, Primate Theophilus Olabayo, spoke with Sunday Oguntola on his battle with stroke and sundry issues. Excerpts:

 

You went off the radar for some years, what really happened?

I have been talking. A prophet doesn’t just say things at random. It’s when God asks me to speak that I speak.

So you were not speaking because God did not ask you to?

Many at times, I warned our leaders but they don’t have listening ears. When Yar’ Adua was here, I was the only one who said YarAdua had a terminal disease. When the condition was serious, the wife called some of us to Abuja and she said we should say the husband would not die. I was the only one who said her husband would die and Jonathan will act and become president. I now told Jonathan, I said it’s better to allow northerners to come, if not there’ll be terrorism and bombing. People said it can’t happen. I told Jonathan they will make the country ungovernable for him. Is it not happening now? You see, something worse than Boko Haram is about to happen soonest.

You said you told Jonathan that they would make the country ungovernable for him, what was his response?

People that are backing him see me as a prophet of doom.

That is one challenge Nigerians have with you over the years. People say how many of your prophecies have come true. They throw that challenge openly…

What of MKO Abiola? I was the one who said he was going to win the election and not be made the president and he will die. There’s no prophecy that has not come to pass. What of East and West judgment, international community? I’ve been speaking the word of God, not only once or twice and the prophecies have been coming to pass. I’m not God and I cannot be 100 percent but I’m above men. Whenever I write, people now copy my prophecies. That’s why I don’t write prophecies any longer.

At a point you had some health challenges, which perhaps made you to lay off for some time. What is the current situation?

I did not lay off. Elijah was sick and in the process he was still doing God’s work. In the sickness, I had an attack

A spiritual attack?

Yes, a spiritual attack but I’m still hale and hearty

What’s the nature of the sickness?

Spirit cannot die. The spirit of God cannot die in you. The body may be weak but it doesn’t matter. But the spirit cannot die. God will continue to speak through you.

You have stroke?

It’s not a big thing that someone has stroke and I’m okay

You believe it was a spiritual attack?

Before I had that stroke, God revealed to me that I’ll be away for some time that I’m going to have stroke. So I looked for someone who knows about stroke, one of my pastors

God told you before?

Yes. Had it in Kaduna

So when it happened, it was not a shock to you?

No because I knew I’d have stroke

How did it happen and what was your first reaction?

I was going for a revival and God said I should go with somebody who knows about stroke. The man had to follow me to Kaduna. When I got to Kaduna, they told me one of my townsmen was sick. When I got there, God said that I should not do anything. I saw him suffering. I got a room for him. I told God let me help him out of this problem, that’s all. I paid the bills and left. When I was coming back, I was on fasting

Did you pray for the man?

I prayed for the man. When I was coming back, I had an attack. That’s how I had that attack

On your way back to Lagos?

No, it was on my way back to the church in Kaduna. God told me before that I’ll be away for some time. God told me I’ll have stroke. It’s not new.

So it’s nothing out of the ordinary because in this life, when ministers of God are sick, they tend to hide it like our political leaders. I’m not a political leader. I don’t hide my things. I had stroke.

And you’ve been going for medical treatment?

Definitely

And you’ve also been praying about it?

Yes

So what makes you believe it’s a spiritual attack?

I know because God told me about it

Did He tell you the source of the attack?

I knew it’d be exhaustion. I pray and fast a lot

But what really happened to Yahweh Evangelical Church? Several years ago, it was the happening church. Everybody was coming then but we are not hearing much of it lately

If you come, you’ll see what is happening. Come on Sunday and see. It’s still the same thing. This is another environment and God is using people.

Some people believe it appears the light has gone off the church or something

The light cannot go off. You cannot kill the light of God. Even when I had the attack, I didn’t have time to be ministering as before but God is still here.

 

When did you have this attack?

1996

That was a long time ago

Yes, long time. God told me I’d be away for some time. God did not tell me how many years.

So you were away for over 10 years?

Yes

How did it make you feel? Didn’t you feel disappointed that God made you go through that process considering how much you have done for His kingdom?

I cannot be disappointed. There are people that are blind. There are people that have cancer; there are people that are dead.That was about the same case with Idahosa and he died. I am not more righteous than Idahosa but I have the grace of God and my work is not yet completed

People said one of the reasons the church went down was because you were caught in adultery with somebody else’s wife. Is it true?

God will forgive you. Where did that happen? It is rumourthat is killing you people. That is why Nigeria cannot move forward. How do you expect me who preach the word of God, I preach against adultery, then I’ll be caught in such an act?Impossible. Anybody can lie against you

If you want to categorise your church, is it a white garment church?

Not a white garment church, it’s aPentecostal church

But you are not a member of PFN

We are members

How come people go into trance here if it is not a white garment church?

That is where Pentecostal churches are missing it. They say they don’t believe in vision. It’s because they don’t have that gift, that’s why they run other people down. Apostle Paul was in trance. There are nine gifts of God, prophecy is one of it. There are other gifts we are using, we are doing deliverance and the word of God is great in our church

Are you not thinking of passing over the baton to someone else at your age?

I have a calling. I am a prophet and it is not hereditary. God can choose anybody. When it’s time for me, God will tell me to lay my hand on the person. God has not told me yet. I’m still a young man and I’m not old.

Are you grooming anybody to succeed you?

There are so many people that are coming up, not only one person. Among them, God will raise up leaders. We have young pastors coming up in the church who have the gift of the word of God. Not only vision alone, people believe that it’s when you just speak in tongues alone or see vision, no. there are different types of gifts.

Many churches do not survive the death of the founders. Are you sure that won’t happen with your church?

It can’t happen here because it’s God that called me. When it is time, God will raise up another leader among us

What is God saying about Nigeria now?

We are sitting on a keg of gunpowder. We are looking at total darkness in the nation. We need to pray very well because these political people are not doing the right things. Nothing is working; the worst corruption is in Nigeria. I know you’ll be scared to write all these down.

There has never been corruption as worse as this. The name of Nigeria is now corruption and some of the journalists are not helping matters. People are being bribed. But there’s going to be a revolution. The poor will trench the rich. You’ve not seen anything. You’ve not seen Boko Haram. Worse Boko Haram is about to happen and we have to pray against religious war that may last seven years.

Let Jonathan drop 2015 and work. Let him work, let the work speak for itself because it’s most of his leaders that are talking carelessly.

When are you buying a private jet?

I’m content with the gift God has given me to save souls. Some of these people are armed robbers. Some of these pastors have estates, oil blocks and their universities are more expensive. I know you are not going to write all these down because you are part of them. You are afraid of them.

If you are not careful, some of these churches will turn to financial organisations. It’s now trade by barter. They are no more saying the truth.

It’s amazing that you are still your old self. When are you ever going to get tired?

I can’t be tired. They have tried me. During Abacha’s tenure, I was the only one condemning Abacha. That day, my phone just stopped working. I knew it was their handiwork. When he came, God revealed to me and I told him you are going to land into problem, your oga will die. Before Abacha died, one Austin came to me. He said he has a friend, Abubakar. I said he’s going to be next president and Abacha will die and it happened. There’s nobody that God cannot catch, Jonathan, Anenih and others if hundred pastors and Mallams are praying for them, they can’t survive. God is about to move if they don’t change and repent because they have put us under bondage for long. These pastors, let them change.

Many instrumentalists and singers are on collision path with churches based on compensation package, triggering a controversy with great repercussions, reports Sunday Oguntola

It was supposed to be the most exciting moment of the service. Worshippers, ever eager and exultant, stood up prepared to dance. The regular praise leader took to the podium. For the next 10 minutes, he sang like always. But the congregation’s response was rather uncharacteristically dull.

Something was missing in the praise worship session. The drummer and keyboardist were nowhere to be found. Their absence stalled what normally would have been an enjoyable praise session. Even the praise leader knew he could not move the congregation like before. The general overseer, a vivacious, observant preacher, realised the session marred the entire service.

The congregation could not wait for him to end his sermon. Many of the worshippers headed home thoroughly disappointed, with what they described as the dullest Sunday service in the history of the Lagos-based Pentecostal church.

The drummer and keyboardists stayed away in protest against the church’s failure to “appreciate their gifts”. The church, they argued, was always lively because of their talented performances. “We give our best but get nothing in return. Everyone returns home blessed while we are yet drained and broke,” the keyboardist explained.

The drummer, on his part, said he was moving to a nearby Pentecostal church that has agreed to place him on a fat monthly salary. The appreciation, he said, will not only make up for his troubles but also motivate him to perform better. Sad as his exit was from his former church, he said he was left with no option.

This scenario reopens the debate on whether or not it is proper for churches to pay singers and instrumentalists. Observations revealed that many Pentecostal churches have imbibed the culture of paying instrumentalists and musicians. This, it was gathered, is to prevent them from being poached and to secure good worship experiences.

The general overseer of Jesus Liberation Squad, New Oko Oba Lagos, Apostle Dele Johnson, said instrumentalists and musicians should ordinarily not be drawing pay from churches. Johnson, a former instrumentalist with Foursquare Gospel Church and The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM), however, stated present-day instrumentalists are not mature to the point of playing for free in churches.

According to him: “It depends on how mature they are but I realised many of them are not. The Bible says God gives us gifts to profit, so they want money. And you really have no choice if you want to retain their services.”

Johnson admits his church pays, stating that it is not totally wrong because “we must also learn to appreciate the gift of God in their lives.” Many pastors, he said, “do not value instrumentalists and treat them shabbily.”

If the general overseer of House Favour Church Egbeda Lagos, Rev. Bayode Olubo, has his way, he would not pay. In fact, he said he was not paying until recently when he came across a full-time, professional drummer. “My grouse with them is that they equate themselves with men of God. They feel they also make things happen in churches and should be treated as kings,” he began.

He said many instrumentalists were hopping in and out when he was not paying, a situation that bore negatively on services. Though he now pays, he warned instrumentalists and musicians to humble themselves and depend on God for sustenance.

The senior pastor of The Stone Church Ibadan, Pastor Alex Adegboye, said churches really have no choice but to pay instrumentalists to get the best out of them. “We pay because we want the best. If you don’t, they just leave for another church and that will be it,” he stated.

Admitting that the development amounts to monetisation of talents, Adegboye said instrumentalists should be left to their consciences to deal with the issue. “If they are really mature, they should do it free but since they prefer money, you just leave them to sort it out with God.”

He, however, said instrumentalists have personal needs and rehearsals to attend, which he said makes paying them a necessity.

The associate pastor of Sure Word Assembly Okota, Lagos, Pastor Aity Dennis-Inyang, gave a yes -and- no answer to the question. According to her, “If they(musicians and instrumentalists) are working full time, they should be paid since that is the only thing they do.

“But if they work elsewhere, they should not be paid. That should be their contribution to the church and the ministry.” The award-winning singer said choosing not to pay exposes the musical talents to secular enticements. “If we don’t take care of them, the secular world is waiting for their talents and gifts.”

Bishop Taiwo Akinola is the General Overseer of Rhema Christian Church & Tower International in Otta, Ogun State. He spoke with Sunday Oguntola on national issues. Excerpts:

14 years after democracy, are we there yet?

Of course, we all know we are far from being there. You know becoming a man is not a day’s job. So the task of nationhood is not a child’s play. We have come a lot way, no doubt, in the sense that we have been able to have uninterrupted democracy, but I also know there is still a lot to be done. We are a growing democratic culture but we still need to cover a lot of grounds.

Some people have said preachers like you only tell people to pray while the nation is slipping away. Is prayer enough to save Nigeria?

Yes, I believe developed nations did more than praying. I believe that prayer is effective in talking with God but you also have to talk to leaders. I am of the opinion church leaders must speak out and call political office holders to caution. Yes, we must pray, but we must always engage our leaders. I don’t believe we should fold our arms but we must speak out and take a stand.

A prominent church leader joined the call for convocation of National Sovereign Conference recently. Will you support such move?

No, I don’t. I believe those making these calls are ethnic champions with different agendas. If such conference holds, they will tear this country apart. Besides, we have elected officers representing various corners of this country. They should be able to discuss whatever challenges we have in Nigeria. Why should we duplicate that body again? All the ethnic lords will have their ways pursuing agendas that will not favour us. So, we don’t need national conference; let our lawmakers discuss all that should be discussed.

There are fears and projections that Nigeria will not survive beyond 2015. Going by the tension in the political atmosphere don’t you see this coming to pass?

I do not believe in that prediction or suggestion at all. That country has said its own. I don’t believe any nation can determine the fate of others. I know the country can begin to orchestrate events that will prove that prediction right. So, it is up to Nigeria to work against it. The glory of Nigeria is in our size. Everyone wants to come here to do business because of our population. So, it is in everyone’s interest that we remain one.

Besides, the Bible says the boundary of nations is determined by God. God is the one that carved out Nigeria and we must not allow that suggestion to come to pass. We must work against it. Let us speak with one voice and our leaders should shun ethnic agenda. Nigeria is a solid nation and we will not disintegrate in Jesus name.

How do you want to react to the monumental corruption in this nation?

Corruption is a fallout of our moral decadence and cultural disorientation. When someone comes from the village and returns in six months with money, we celebrate him. We don’t bother how he came about the money. We then taunt his contemporaries who return with nothing. So, we are all involved in this. Traditional rulers, church leaders and religious institutions must work to change this. Let’s allow people to know that ill-gotten wealth is of no value. When that starts, it spreads to all sectors. The government gets the signal and act accordingly. We should even include anti-corruption subjects in our curriculum so that we can catch Nigerians from young.

We have no country but Nigeria. No matter where you go, your skin marks you out. You can never be a first class citizen outside here. This is the only country we have and we have to change our people’s perception. Why should you pocket what belongs to others? Why should you plan to cheat me or anybody for that matter?

Supposing pastors and church leaders decide to organise protest marches against government policies and actions, will you be willing to participate?

I would not.

Why?

Thank you. You see there is no value for human life in this country. So many people can hijack the protest march and begin to destroy property. They can take over and derail the protests. When they do that, the government can send security men after the protesters, leading to loss of lives.

But the church employed that method in the US to great success. Why not give it a try here too? Won’t it be cowardice to chicken out?

Thank you, but you see we don’t all have to think alike. We have different perspectives to issues. If you regard it as an act of cowardice, I will ask you to go ahead. You are still my brother but I will not join you in any protest.

In advanced countries, the police have regards for people. But here, they are quick to use fire arms to disperse protesters. I watch on CNN some days ago and saw how policemen were even protecting protesters elsewhere. I know how many people would have died if we try it here. I don’t want anybody to puff teargas into my system for nothing.

Everything in this country has failed. How does that make you feel?

No, every system here has not collapsed. We still have many things running. But having said that, we know things are deteriorating here. But we have ourselves to blame for it. If we all elect the best with our consciences, we won’t be where we are again. You find most of the protesters that you mentioned are only interested in dislodging the persons there so that they can take over and do worse things.

We must all come together to fix this country. Pastors, journalists, doctors and traditional rulers must team up to save Nigeria. Things are bad because we are ready to change our lives. It takes Nigerians to change Nigeria. It takes Nigerians to move Nigeria forward.

What will people find in Rhema Chapel that might be difficult to find elsewhere?

Every living church believes in Christ and eternity but there is always peculiarity. Here, we were asked to raise a glorious army of champions. Here, nobody is allowed to suffer. We rally round one another and refuse to discriminate on any basis. We love one another and raise champions. The totality of the gospel is what we preach here.