We have had some security challenges in the country for some time now, how do you feel about this, how can we use law to restore sanity in the country?
First and foremost, it is the responsibility of the government to provide security. We as individuals also have to contribute to the provision of security, that means the government cannot do it alone.
But when people start taking laws into their hands, when they start going into jungle justice, it is as a result of the failure of our criminal justice system, it is also as a result of the failure of the police to do what they are supposed to do.
Nigeria has experienced abnormal flood resulting to loss of lives and property, what is your view about this, and prevent further loss of lives, farmland and crops?
Well, it has again come down to the issue of government, up till now, we don’t know the reasons for those floods. Apart from Nimet coming out to say there will be flooding this year.
We have issues and such stories as the dam in Cameroun collapsing, was let loose and so on, but we are supposed to have our own dam to control flood. Up till now, there is no system of accountability. Why did this flooding happen, what was the preparation of the government for this flooding, we are never ready for emergency situations in this country.
Some parts of the country are flooded, the people are moving around, no food, no shelter, no farmland, no means of livelihood etc, there is no insurance, no political insurance, no commercial insurance, nobody is talking about them.
It is the issue of accountability of governance. As far as I am concerned, the government is not accountable because if most of those things happen in advanced countries like the United States, because of Hurricane Katrina, some people lost election in America. In this country, they don’t need our votes, they always rig themselves in office to come and rule us. That is only reason they don’t care about how you feel, about how they would respond positively to the yearnings and aspirations of the masses.
But President Goodluck Jonathan has been going around assuring the victims of government’s support, how do you see this?
It is not about going about telling them you are going to do something, or that something is going to be done, the government is going to set up a committee and so on, no that is not how to govern a country. People want to see practical things being done.
Look, these are people that depend largely on subsistence farming, their farms are flooded, you can talk from today till tomorrow, what they need is immediate assistance, they need financial assistance to enable them eat and possibly buy seedlings for their farms, they need accommodation to provide shelter over their heads, so, as far as I am concerned, the response of the government is not good enough.
But the government has raised a committee to mobilise funds and assistance for the flood victims, what is your reaction to this?
Well, I thank God for private individuals like Aliko Dangote and Olisa Agbakoba (SAN) that are coming up to assist, I feel also that we should not always be waiting for the international community to come to our aide, we should always be able to help ourselves. Then this also boils down to the issue of corruption.
How does corruption come in there?
It comes in because now that they are releasing money, how sure are you that the money is really going to reach those people who are in trauma, those who are traumatised by the flood, the real victims of this disaster. Is this money really going to reach them, and not going to be diverted, those are the challenges in Nigeria.
There is this problem of lack of confidence in the government and governance of this country. As I am talking to you now, I am from Kogi State, some of my Ibaji people have no place to sleep, they have no food to eat, some of them have fled to Anambra State and as you already know, there is a lot of flooding in Lokoja.
The governments have abandoned their responsibility and are not assisting it’s citizens who are affected by this flood disaster.
The government is not doing what it is supposed to do.
What is your advice now?
This is now an opportunity for the government to come out more forcefully, to move to aggressively restore the people to their normal source of livelihood so that they can continue to live their normal lives, that is the responsibility of government.
Then, as individuals, as family members, we are an African society, we have to take care of our brothers. So, I encourage others to come out to help our brothers and sisters who are victims of this disaster.
What is your advise for Olisa Agbakoba and Aliko Dangote Committee on this flood disaster?
Well, my advise for them is that they should avoid red tapism, they should move into action immediately because they should try to have several committees in all the affected areas, they should try o cut off the politicians, they should not use this as a platform for 2015. I have great confidence in Olisa Agbakoba (SAN), he is a man who has been fighting for the masses. He should try to have people who should go to the places that are really affected by the disaster. Because before you know it, the politicians will compile lists of their cronies and supporters for them to come and collect money, eventually this money will not reach the people whom it is intended for.
The committee should make sure this money reaches people who are really affected by the flood, we know them, we see them, their properties are there. There should be no politicization of the entire programme, they should ensure that everybody affected by the flood is reached and they should step up their speed.
As I am talking to you now, people are having babies in the camps, committing suicide, and dying there daily, nobody records them at all. They don’t have any opportunity for anybody to put them on the Internet.
What do you mean by this?
When you talk about the Aluu killings, these are things that happen every day in this country, it was because this one was put on the Internet for people to see, that is why you see people responding. But this is what happens every day, jungle justice, it is because of the failure of the system, it is because of the failure of compensating people that are victims of crime. It is high time that we put these into consideration.
Justice Dahiru Musdapher (CJN) (rtd) initiated some reforms within the justice system before he left, what are your expectations from the incumbent CJN with respect to those reforms?
Well, it is unfortunate that Justice Musdapher, a man of vision and high integrity had only six months as the CJN. He came up with a lot of reforms and I am very happy because those reforms are to touch the very foundation of our justice delivery system. I am also happy that the incumbent, Justice Aloma Mukhtar, is very efficient, this is the very first woman Chief Justice of Nigeria that we have, and with her performance so far, as a member of the inner Bar I know what is happening, there is a lot of hope and in the next two and half years which she would spend as the CJN, there is going to be a lot of changes. She has done it before; is a person of her words, all we need to do is to have patience. Because when you talk about change, it is something that is very painful for people that are already seated. So, there is great hope and expectation that the justice system is going to change in the next two and half years that she will seat as the CJN.
What is your advise for young, upcoming lawyers who see you as a model in the legal profession?
My advise to them is that there is no short cut to greatness in the legal profession. You have to pay your dues, you have to work day and night. You have to make sure you maintain the integrity of the profession and when you talk of being a senior advocate of Nigeria, there are so many things that go with it.
What are the challenges of being a SAN and a chief?
Well, I am an Igala chief, I am the Agenyi Attah of Igala Kingdom, meaning “Attah of Igala’s confident “This carries a lot of responsibilities with it. For instance, a few days ago I had to settle some matters in my chambers out of court. Those are the responsibilities of being a chief, when I was conferred with this title, I had to tell some people that it is not a political appointment.
There is a responsibility for higher calling to serve. So, first and foremost, I have a responsibility to the judiciary as a member of the Inner Bar, I am a minister in the temple of justice. As an Igala person, I have a responsibility to them and a citizen of Nigeria, I have a responsibility to uphold the constitution, to see that justice is not only done, but is manifestly seen to be done in every situation in which I am involved.
The welfare of junior lawyers has been on the front burner, what is your view about this?
I have been talking about the welfare of lawyers,even recently when I hosted the NBA Unity branch, I discussed the welfare of Junior lawyers, especially and I told them that a situation where some of us pay our drivers more than our lawyers is not good.
But at the same time we need to look at it from the other side too. What are the values that you get from junior lawyers in the chambers? Because in everything we talk about values. If you receive more values from your driver than your lawyers, then you have the tendency to pay your driver more than your lawyers because we are talking of values, so what is your contributions, your input to the chambers.
That is why it is both ways, it is paramount that lawyers should be well paid because these are professionals, they are people that are part and parcel of the justice delivery system, their soundness, their wellbeing is very important. So, when a lawyer is well paid, he is expected to give his best in everything he is doing whether in or outside the court.
But we have a situation these days that some lawyers who are out of law school cannot write simple letter, this is a big problem and one begins to wonder, what values they are putting in the chambers. Then you begin to place value on them based on what they are making as input.
What is your advise to them?
I used to tell younger lawyers, I keep on telling my Junior lawyers in chambers that if you make yourself indispensable to my practice, you’ll earn more. But if you are among those who come to the office by 8.00 a.m, look at your wrist watch and immediately it is 5.00 p.m you go away, you’ll only receive what I agreed with you to receive.
It also means the juniors that are working in the chambers need to make meaningful contributions to practice, but that is not the situation now. You have juniors who are more or less nothing but liabilities to the chambers, who used one connection or the other to work with you and at the end of the day, they cannot deliver, so what do you do.
Do you expect a senior to start paying that lawyer N100,000 when he is not able to make something to cater for his salary. So, the welfare of lawyers is very very important, we now talk of lawyers who were in serious practice. We have been talking about insurance policy for legal practitioners, we have a situation in Abuja where some lawyers’ chambers caught fire or they were involved in an accident. There is no proper way of compensating them, there is no proper way of taking care of the widows and children who were left behind by such lawyers.
It is this part of the welfare that the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) should straighten by incorporating insurance into it so that lawyers should not look like paupers. We are supposed to give confidence to our clients.
