Senior pastor of Rock Foundation Church, Abeokuta Ogun State, Rev Tunde Amosun, is an unusual preacher with radical dispositions. He spoke with Sunday Oguntola on his passion, ministry and the body of Christ. Excerpts:
It’s been almost a decade since we spoke last. What have you been up to lately?
I have been busy working on how we can raise a crop of real Christians.
Is that to say there are unreal Christians?
Yes, it is quite easy to be hypocritical. We see an invisible Jesus and so we have to be sure we have a bunch of people really following up on that invisible God.
You could have a crowd of people in the church but how many are really following Christ? At the end of the day, what matters is the content of their lives because people only stay for only a few hours in church.
So, my passion has been to help people grow in Christ; to see Him formed in them every day.
But it is not an attractive call, is it?
It is attractive especially at the individual level. People are suffering from not following Christ. If I am not balanced financially and emotionally, I will suffer for it.
How well are you succeeding doing that?
I can’t score myself but I am learning how to take the word of God to change lives. You see the changes in people and you are delighted. Christianity is all about faith hope and love. These are the three indices that help define a Christian.
You see people growing in these and you feel grateful to God. People are changing and their lives are moving forward.
But it is not a crowd-pulling endeavour, is it?
I don’t believe that is our job. We are not called to pull crowd but to change lives. We are in the business of changing lives and pleasing Jesus. The drive is to be able to confidently give account before Him one day and hear ‘well done’.
A pastor went to Charles Spurgeon one day to complain his church was not growing and that he only had 25 members. Spurgeon looked at him and said, “25 people are a lot. You have many accounts to render for.”
That’s the problem with us in Nigeria. We are too bothered about quantity whereas everyone is an eternity. What we do with an individual goes far. God does not see crowds but individuals. God knows us by names.
When I come to the pulpit, I am more concerned about each soul, not the crowd. When they disperse, they go out as individuals. Why should I see people as crowd? Why should I see them as one of the masses? Everyone counts because Jesus did not die for the crowd but for individuals. When you see Jesus, you see only yourself in His eyes.
Are you saying crowd is not important?
Yes because God deals with individuals, not crowd.After people disperse, they return home to deal with their issues as individuals.
But some church leaders feel the more people they have, the better for viability?
I remember a story I once heard that I will never forget. One man was fishing and a rich man passed by. The rich man said get back to fishing and the guy said for what? The rich man said to get a bigger boat and then the guy said for what? The rich man said to enjoy yourself and the guy said, ‘what do you think I am doing now? I’m enjoying myself.’
I think it is blasphemous for a man of God to focus on money and think money is in the crowd. Jesus said we cannot serve God and Mammon. In politics, you can do that as well as economy. But in the things of God, money is nothing.
What do you want to use the money for? To buy tickets and travel?To buy private jets?To buy cars and houses? No, you will get all of these and then die. Jesus looked at the crowd and had compassion on them, not the offering in their pockets.
You cannot be popular with these views?
Why should I be popular? Popularity has nothing to do with purpose. The man who wins Man of the Year in 2015 will not win it in 2016. Messi has won the world footballer for four years but he won’t always win.
So, nothing is really so big or much in this world. You will eventually leave one day and nothing will count again.
Do you agree with those who say the problem with Nigeria is the church?
I agree with them partially because we don’t have the whole of Nigeria under our constituency. But the few we have in churches, what are we doing with them? The world will always go crazy but the church should be the finest part of the society.
We must show the way to the immoral, devilish people. People should have a loftier view of life, which is where we are missing it.
Why are you not into branches?
Someone is in Lagos and another is in Kaduna, why should I come and dominate you? Why don’t I strengthen you to do a better job? Jesus said we are the branches and He is the vine. He used that word for individuals, not the church.
When people are doing well in an area, you let them do a better job. Why should you go there and get them out? It is not a jungle. Why should I reinvent the wheel? I tell people that one church in one city doing well is not as good as all churches doing well.
Have you been tempted to consider opening branches?
Even if I do that, someone else will be there and I won’t control him. Paul established churches and never stayed with them. He handed them over to those on grounds.
You see the problem with us in Nigeria is we have too many churches without quality leadership. That gives room for mediocrity. We just have the desire to open branches without mature people to handle them. The pastors get there and reproduce their mediocrity and immaturity at a higher level.
You cannot mass produce maturity. It has to be one-by-one and one-on-one.
Have people told you the church is crawling with just one centre in 20 years?
I am not here to impress or please anybody. I am a Shepherd under Jesus. I am just one of the many; I don’t have this messianic complex. The whole world is not my mission field. I have my own small portion to look after.
To think I must affect the whole world means I am crazy. I am not Jesus Christ. I will only do the bit I can do and get out. I am not too bothered about legacies. I am called to follow Jesus. Legacy is a language of the world. I don’t need monuments after I am gone.
Heaven is keeping records. Our rewards are in heaven. Whatever we do here do not disappear. Whether we are acknowledged or not does not matter. God will open a record one day in heaven.
People have been bothered about transparency and accountability in church. What is the system in place here?
This is because people are scared. I believe people should check what they do in churches before they put their heads there. For example, in this church, we don’t raise money. When we were building, we never had a building fund or envelope. People just gave as they saw the work going on. We believe God for everything and just pray for provisions.
Do you open the books to members?
That is never a problem. We do once in a while but people are free to demand to see the books anytime. But I also don’t believe to put everything in the open where you go around you should be telling what you have and what you are doing.
If you look at Jesus, there was complete confidence in Him. His disciples never questioned His lifestyles with money because He was open. I have never asked any member for money since we started.
I don’t raise money in this church at all. You begin to question people when you don’t trust the leadership. The more people are mature, the better for the church. Your wife will not question you if the family finance is doing well. It is only when things are bad that they ask questions.
We don’t push for money and so it is difficult for people to question us. I am not saying we don’t make mistakes or we are perfect but even in our mistakes, people see our sincerity.