In spite of recent defections by some political gladiators from the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) to the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), the Minister of Transportation, Rt. Hon. Rotimi Amaechi, in an interview with newsmen during a test-run ride on the Itakpe-Ajaokuta-Warri rail line, was optimistic that President Muhammadu Buhari will make it back to the Presidential Villa in 2019. He also spoke on the actvities of his ministry, the insecurity in parts of the country and the fight against corruption. FAITH YAHAYA was there.
You must be under pressure to deliver on rail projects because of the 2019 elections…
No, let’s stop that. Basically, if you want to address that, you just have to acknowledge the fact that most of these projects have been there. When Nigerians ask if we are under pressure, I ask a question: what were their reactions when nobody was doing these? If you see the files of uncompleted projects that started from ex-Presidents Olusegun Obasanjo, Umaru Yar’Adua to Goodluck Jonathan, which the President has been pushing to us to complete, then you will understand.
If it was other governments, they won’t do that. They will start their own (projects) so that they will be named after them. This project, Itakpe-Ajaokuta-Warri line, which we are completing, has been there for 34 years. Imagine those of you who were born 30 years ago. The project is older than you. So, we should not be attaching politics to everything.
What is the volume of credit facility placed on railway by the Federal Government?
The noise about us borrowing is too much. What we have actually borrowed is $1.6 billion, which is for railways, and it is for Lagos-Ibadan. But if you add what we met from the previous government, then I think they borrowed $500 million under aviation for the four airports—Abuja, Port Harcourt, Lagos and Kano. They also borrowed $500 million to do the Abuja-Kaduna. The total figure then for that place was about $800 million. So, in addition to the extra work, we brought it down to a billion dollars. Not much has been taken, but most people think we have taken much. We are proposing to take, but it has not come.
There is a difference between what you propose and what you eventually get. The last fund taken was taken by Goodluck Jonathan, which is $500 million for Kaduna to Abuja. And then the Federal Government contributed $500 million. The next is $1.6 billion for Lagos-Ibadan. When people hear that we are borrowing, they don’t understand. But the President has no apologies if we have to borrow for infrastructure. And I am sure people will be happy to go through Warri without going through Lagos. This will save time to connect to the north and the south, and that means those people taking food to the South can get to Lokoja and put the food to Warri and continue from there. When it is completed, it will run about 120 to 150 kilometres per hour, and it is the longest line with 302km.
How many projects is the federal government funding at the moment?
We are funding Itakpe-Ajaokuta-Warri. We are funding Abuja-Kaduna by paying the contractor who we are still owing. So from every budget released, we pay him. And the National Assembly cut out N67 billion from my budget. We are also funding Itakpe-Warri.
Why is the fencing for the Abuja-Kaduna rail line not completed?
I just said our budget was cut down by N67 billion but we are looking for money to pay the contractor.
What is your maintenance plan for the Itakpe-Ajaokuta-Warri line?
We had an agreement with CCECC to maintain it for three years and we have introduced two programmes. We are taking Nigerians to China for five years to go and study different engineering in railways, and we are also compelling the CCECC to build a transport university in Katsina. The reason for that is to train engineers that can get used to railways activities and do maintenance.
Why Katsina?
I chose that.
Is it not political?
Whether you put any project in Katsina or not, the President will always win Katsina. So, ordinarily, I should be putting it in Enugu or any other place, because it does not make any difference.
What is the counterpart funding on the Lagos-Ibadan rail line?
15 per cent. We paid N72 billion.
APC is witnessing defection of party members to political parties…
That is according to you. You are not a politician, so don’t comment on what you don’t know. Unfortunately, I didn’t want to comment on this but you have put me under pressure. No matter what you do, the governor of Sokoto will leave naturally because he has ambition to be president. If you take a chicken to him he will still go, right? The same with Kwara. These are people you expect that they will leave. Okay, they left with some members of House of Reps and Senate, where did they come from? They come from areas the President is comfortable. Do you honestly believe that the President will lose election in Sokoto? Well, nobody is God, but that is one of his comfort zones. The next person that left, left from Bauchi, if you bring president on a sick bed in Bauchi, he will win. He has never lost election in Bauchi. If you bring President on a sick bed in Kano, he will win. But that is being arrogant on our side because we can’t underestimate them.
It happened in your time too right?
No, in our time, we saw our candidate one year plus ahead of time. Six months to election, it was clear who was going to be APC candidate.
We are surprised you are defending APC because rumour has it that you are on the other side?
Thank you very much. One thing about me in the political history of Nigeria is that nobody has been in doubt of where I stand. I thought one quality I have is that Nigerians believe I am honest. I never hide my feelings.
There are speculations that they have taken the position of Campaign DG from you and given it to Rochas Okorocha. Is it true?
The answer is God bless him. Anybody can be DG. It is not a difficult assignment. DG is somebody who plans campaign.
Are you saying you are still in charge?
Whoever is in charge, you will know.
What is the future of APC in 2019?
I am not God and only God can say APC will win or not but what is clear is that if you remove God element, I think we are prepared for victory because Nigerians will certainly reject a second looting. They cannot survive a second looting. Sixty per cent of most rich men in Nigeria depend on government. Only three years that they removed their mouth from the breast milk, everybody is complaining. I always say Nigerians are part of the problem. For instance, you meet me and I steal $100,000 from my ministry and give to you, you will start saying Amaechi is the most generous minister without asking me where I got the money from. Then you go home and give your wife $50,000. Then she takes $20,000 and gives to her mother. Her mother goes to the market to buy egusi (melon). The woman she buys egusi from pays school fees. The person you pay school fees for fixes his door. The carpenter that fixed the door takes money to buy uniform for his child. The tailor that sews the uniform pays for burial. Do you see how the economy runs? That is the economy of Nigeria, and we are saying it just cannot continue. The economy has to be productive, because if you want to have access to the national treasury, then everybody should have that access. It should not just be few that would have access to it.
The argument is that you have not been a beneficiary, but when you were there during PDP, you benefitted. What is your stand on this?
You know what I usually tell people. And I can quote one or two persons in their camp who would say Amaechi will not collect the money. Even those who criticise me in Rivers State will tell you that I have good reputation. Honestly, what do I need money for? I don’t smoke, I don’t drink and I am not one with luxury cars or house. I said this when I became governor. Nigerian politicians commit what they call manslaughter. Manslaughter means killing by accident; when you don’t have intention to kill but you kill.
How do they kill by accident? The money that is meant to build hospitals is used for private purpose and the hospitals are not built. Nigerians go to the hospitals where there are no drugs and they die. Without knowing it, for me, you have committed manslaughter, and the problem is Nigerians. You don’t hold us accountable. I have also told this story before. For instance, a councillor gets elected and six months later, he comes to church that he wants to do a thanksgiving, and the pastor is so happy and then the pastor stands and sings: ‘It shall be permanent…’ And I ask the pastor what will be permanent? Do you want stealing to be permanent? Nigerians don’t even ask, Amaechi, how did you get your wealth?
Insecurity seems to be rampant right now. What is the government doing about it?
We forget easily. In Plateau, we lost a senator and member of House of Assembly. The crisis has been there and there are all manner of theories about insecurity in Nigeria. Until Nigerians can feed themselves, insecurity will continue. We must work towards making Nigerians have money in their pocket. No matter what you do, and I was governor of Rivers state, I told the state that physical policing does not solve social policing. So let us work towards giving Nigerians food. And how do we do that? By creating employment. Those people who criticise us should just look back. Somebody told me that people will forget how it was three to four years ago and they will assess us on how it is now.
We made a budget of $35 per barrel but oil fell to $28. People have forgotten that Buhari only comes when prices of oil comes down. Remember in Shagari’s government, it was when the price collapsed that Buhari came into power and started battling with it. You know he does not like borrowing, but he was forced to borrow.
What about the issue of herdsmen, why has the President not addressed it?
Let me ask you the questions I ask people. Do you honestly think Buhari is supporting them to lose election? Because security is key to our electoral victory. So you think Buhari will support them and lose election?
Nigerians are saying the fight against corruption is one-sided…
I have an answer to that. We are new in the government. So how can you be accusing us of corruption? It is the next government that should be accusing us of corruption.
But corruption seems to be worse now?
Stop that. How much are we borrowing to do all the things that we are doing? Forget the loan we took on railway. What about the roads everywhere? It is fiscal discipline. This is the first time you have a government that is paying 100 per cent of its capital budget. The President said he met an empty treasury and they also said Jonathan did not save for the rainy day.
How true is it that you and other governors insisted that the money be shared?
They have forgotten that it was me that approved the $1 billion of the Sovereign Wealth Fund. Why did we ask them to share the money? Every time we went for NEC meeting, which was once every month, and they said we had $8 billion, the next month they said $7 billion. When we asked what happened to $1 billion, they told us President approved that we should spend it. It is not his money; it is our money. The next meeting we would come again and they would tell us the money is now $6 billion. And when we asked, they said President approved that they should spend it. That was why we just decided that the money be shared.
I have heard ex-Minister Ngozi Okonjo- Iweala, but I am ready for a public debate with her. Oshiomhole has told her to come for a public debate but she did not oblige. We were ready to save because it is important that we save. But instead of saving, they were telling us every month that President said, President said. That was what happened. By the way, initially, they shared about $1 to $2 billion and the rest disappeared. How did it disappear? They stopped calling for NEC meeting. For one year, there was no NEC meeting. And when they were handing over, it was $2.5 billion that was left in Excess Crude Account. Let Mrs. Okonjo-Iweala come for debate. She has written her book. I am writing one. I will say that clearly.