Former Information Minister and erstwhile Chairman, National Sports Commission (NSC), Chief Alex Akinyele in this interview with Assistant Editor, Investigations, JOKE KUJENYA, reflects on the Nigerian state in the last decade, democracy, politics, problems of insecurity, the abducted Chibok girls and other issues. Excerpts:
FOR some years, you’ve not really been in the limelight. But I’m aware you are in the know of happenings in Nigeria. How do you often feel with recent happenings on the nation’s landscape in the last decade given that they may not be as bad when you were in the government?
This is deep. In the last 10 years in this same country, I would say we have enjoyed democracy. However, Nigerians do not really understand the meaning of democracy. So, they feel that whatever they do and however they do it is democratic. Some of them even believe that when they disobey the law, it is democratic. When they turn the world upside down, it is democratic. So, the difference between now and ten10 years ago, is the democratic system which we are employing to rule ourselves. Some people take democracy to do as they like, say what they like, gallivant all around, which put together, is very unfortunate. And that is democracy for them. So, the difference between the last decade and now is democracy and nothing more. Now, to paint the picture more clearly, within the last 10 years, we have had a democratic dispensation in this country and many people, especially the politicians say, now, democracy has come and it is their turn to hold the sway in the country. And you know that democracy is every comer’s affair which gives them the liberty to do their best. I think what I have observed is that the current crop of politicians misunderstands what is the meaning of democracy and so, they have no clue what is expected of them and they do what they please. That is the way I see it.
And if you also look at Nigerians in recent times, it isn’t that corruption is strange to us; but it seems to have become so heightened that we can almost assume there is shame about it no longer and you begin to wonder what has happened to us as a nation?
It is seriously a sad turnout because this is obviously not the Nigeria we are all expecting. Each time this terrible word corruption is mentioned, I feel so sad. Corruption has never been and was never the order of the day in the Nigeria of old, especially in the 1980s. Those who have the privilege to be corrupt are grey politicians who perpetuate everything called corruption with impunity. And that is it, impunity is the word. If you go to the courts, there are so many important cases that affect big politicians, big men or sons of great men in the country. And it is not because the courts did not want to attend to these cases; but there is a big problem of pressures on those relevant to these cases not to prosecute as they would have loved to. Let me not say more than that on corruption. But it is actually very painful things could get this bad.
Having being born and nurtured in Nigeria for the last 76 years, you’ve once been in power and now, when you reflect, what are those things you often wish you could change for the better given that you still have the verve?
I would have loved to see Federal Government give appointments to those who truly deserve them and not because one politician has to be favoured. I would have loved to see the government take on the big politicians being handed over to the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC), and step back and allow them to do their jobs. You see, the EFCC is saving grace to this country whether it is headed by Nuhu Ribadu, Farida Waziri or now, Lamorde. Whatever the lull we see in that agency is never the fault of any of those appointed to run it. Even with Lamorde there now, he is doing his best on any case before him. Then, someone from up there could call and say don’t you know this is our friend, paddy-man or woman? And then, they give the direct instructions “Lamorde, please soft pedal”. He has no choice but to obey, but however, grudgingly. So, if those at the top really want Nigeria to be cleansed and clean, they would allow people like Lamorde to do his job according to its dictates. And I know that is what Lamorde wants to do, a good job. But the question is, will the political hawks allow him? And he cannot complain because in their own way, the rule is, obey the last order. So, you, I and the people at the top should allow agencies like the EFCC to do the jobs they are set up to do for this country. It is then and only then, we can begin to see Nigeria triumph in every area of our lives.
Another problem bugging Nigeria is the issue of insecurity, the abduction of the Chibok Girls, insurgency killings here and there and it’s so hydra-headed. What do you think our leader should do?
The only way Nigeria can tackle that is that those who ought to be on the side of the federal government are not. Rather than being on the side of the government, they are on the side of the insurgents. It has been mentioned severally that there are so many very eminent Nigerians who are reportedly sponsoring Boko Haram. The insurgents didn’t just wake up one day to become what they are now. No. The sad fact is that there are some influential Nigerians who have pledge their own allegiance to Boko Haram for one reason or the other. And it is rather unfortunate. And then, for politicians, this is a very terrible situation for them in that I expect all of them to join hands together, enmasse and en-block to fight the militancy battle. But rather than fight Boko Haram, they are fighting one another, calling names and all of that. Is that how to end the insurgency? A proverb in Yoruba says that “the arrow that a boy throws up and reaches the acumen of the Iroko tree must have been given to him by an old man”. So, this goes to show you that some very strong people must have been behind Boko Haram. At one time or the other, we have heard our President say they know those who are involved or backing them. But till date we are yet to see them or hear their names being reeled out. There is nothing like that. There have been speculations with no confirmation even though the statement was made by our own president. Nigeria has waited for so long for that and this is where the failure to nip them in the bud comes from. If the president himself could say I know those sponsoring Boko Haram in my government, for instance, on a Monday, we expect that before the end of such a week, the list is released. But this is something he has not been able to do. And there are also others who claimed to know them, but alas, we are still on the waiting game. So, the question is why are they all so afraid to mention the names? Yet, it is the sole responsibility of the government to let us know those who are killing Nigeria and Nigerians. These are the real people killing our women, our children, our aspiration and entire Nigerian system without any kind of punishment, not only the Boko Haram itself. The President knows them. And you all, the Nigerian media, did not at any time, come together to hold Mr. President up on his word that at so and so time, you said you know the Boko Haram backers, now, give us their names. I know that the media has such powers, so the question is, why are you not using it? So, it is a very complex and complicated challenge we all have on our hands.
You haven’t answered my question of the plight of the Chibok Girls still in captivity and even the escapees. Popular opinion is that they may have felt betrayed by their own country. What do you think sir?
Out rightly, I believe like other Nigerians that the Chibok Girls have been betrayed by us all the leaders such as Mr. President and his cabinet, by their religious leaders, their teachers and indeed, by all of us. I expect that all religious leaders to come out and lead the campaign, agitation and even the strong voice to call for the world to bring out these girls. Without these religious leaders, with their followership championing this cause, all of them waging this war for Boko Haram to run, I don’t know where we would be. But has that happened? So, won’t you admit that the girls have been betrayed by us all?
And what would you say about Malala, the young UN Ambassador, having to come to Nigeria just for our own president to respond to her calls despite appeals by fathers, mothers and all concerned in the country?
Let me tell you this, when the young girl came and showed us the way, I cried. You see, we don’t have bad leaders in this country, we only have bad advisers. Aren’t there enough men and women around the president to caution him that the girl has come to disgrace us by telling us what to do and how to do it? And then, you see all the shenanigans in receiving her and given her access to whatever she wanted? I think something is basically wrong with us in this nation. I have sympathy for the president because he is just only one man. But by the time you decide to become the president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, you ought to have known very well that uneasy indeed lies the head that wears the crown. So, I am asking what he is doing. From April 14 till date, you know how many days that is. The girls must have been so dehumanised.
As for the few of them that had escaped or gained their freedom, in addition to what all the NGOs could do for them, should meet with them and their parents, assess their state of health, and ask them questions on what happened to them while in confinement. The world needs to know this vital information. And then, ask them what they need currently. And if you can’t ask them what they need, I am sure that by the time they see them, they would obviously know what they need.
Is it that the United Nations (UN) cannot also wade in and help these girls as they helped Malala?
In the circumstance that we find these girls, it should be so. But I don’t know what to say other than that the Malala girl is an eye-opener of what we ought to do but not doing. If our own President can receive the girl in such a dignified manner, why not give such importance to our own daughters who faced her similar fate, including all our NGOs and champions of the ‘BringBackOurGirls’ campaigns who are out there in the cold, asking for their release. You now see the case of double standards by our own President. May be it is because the girl is white skinned, I don’t know. And on her having the backing of the UN, I want to say she got it because she deserves it. And we can also have similar backing because we are the wronged and afflicted people. America said they were coming to help us with all their armies and armory, then, we saw nothing. This is the first time in the history of America to boast that they were going to secure the release of some captured kids and fail to do so. It has never happened. So, you want to ask what went wrong. We need to ask where is the help America promised these girls? Why is it that America failed? Is it because they feel that we ourselves can do it and why don’t we do it? Why did America promise at all? What did America see in Nigeria that made them to keep mute thereafter? What did the soldiers that America sent do or not do? The girls are still there and our leaders continue to live as if that is the normal thing to do in this circumstance. You see, we can blame politicians when there is a national calamity of high magnitude, all the politicians, irrespective of their parties are supposed to come together in one block and fight this to resolve the logjam to a standstill. Rather than do that, they are passing the buck. But this is a national problem, not a party’s problem which must be faced on the basis of patriotism, not giving any kind of cognisance to party affiliation. At this point, the party is not important; it is the nation that is important. And for the fact that our Nigerian politicians don’t do that means that they do not appreciate the meaning of patriotism.
Let’s look at the current militiralisation of politicking in Nigeria? How do you see that sir?
It is not bringing the military into politics; it is bringing discipline, law and order into politicking in Nigeria. If our politicians, with the way they think they understand politickings are left to themselves, they will maim, they will kill and destroy things. But when the military is around, each of them will behave as normalcy demands. So, that is the way I see it and I am not against it at all. It is not wrong at all. A desperate need demands a desperate remedy. Look at it this way, there is a superb traffic gridlock on a major road, and then, a military man comes out, you will see how quickly he will restore normalcy to the traffic situation. That is how far our people respect soldiers. So, it is for the purpose of respect for one another, order and good conduct of civilians during the elections. And if the president did not do that, we are the same people that will cry out, why didn’t he bring soldiers to come and enforce order for everything to go well. Nigerians will still blame him.
On the just concluded National Conference, you have been a part of the one in the past and there had been others. Do you think it was needful again for Nigeria to waste resources on such?
Yes, the National Conference is and was a welcome development. But there are some single individuals they had there that were not supposed to be. Such people don’t have to be there. A Confab is not a gathering you put together based on favouritism. Such thing as governors assigning their cronies putting just about anybody there makes it all unfortunate. We see them and I shudder. It took my mind back to 1998 when I was in the Constituent Assembly; there was no ‘baby assembly man or woman’ there. They had no young people who had no experience to fall back on or learn from there. The younger ones needed to listen attentively to the older ones. And if the argument that there was need for trans-generational involvement because the older ones seemed to have failed the expectation of the younger generation, then, there must be some basic requirements for anybody that must be there to set a standard. And this set standard, some of them don’t have except that they are friends or brothers of the governor or so. And that is the Nigerian factor. I saw them and I challenged them one after the other. And by the time they all said let us have 19 more states, you would know that some of them are sick. We haven’t been able to manage 36 states well, you are asking for more. But say what you like, the Confab was a fine development. Now, the question is, will the government keep their recommendations? Will the government ever have a second look at all that they put together and did during the period? And will they adopt any of the good things there? It is not a question of merely dumping the whole document in the archives. Yes, they came, they saw and they wrote. It has happened before and it is likely going to happen again. And I sincerely hope that this time around, that does not happen. Just like you said, there have been quite a number of Confabs in the country; and then, what comes out of Confabs, nothing. Yet, billions are expended as we went round almost all the states of the federation doing national reconciliation and we wrote fantastic reports, but what comes out of it. Ours was under the late Abacha and then, to Abubakar. We did a lot of hard work. And even if they didn’t touch anything, let the Confab reports become points of reference in our National Libraries for the future generation and indeed, anyone should be able to consult. Where is the report of the Oputa Panel which sat and sat for months on end? All that we read was the hullabaloo of the late Chief Gani Fawehinmi and nothing more. That kind of tradition should die. Send anybody to the archives today to ask for any draft on the Oputa Panel and you won’t get anything. Ask anybody to go to the archives what the Akinyele group said when they got to Ogoni land about seven times? Ogoni land was then really a terrible place. But by the time we were leaving Ogoni land, three Ogoni sons and daughters were made commissioners which never happened till that time. It never happened before then and they were very happy and titled me “Miniwura of Ogoniland” meaning the ‘Peacemaker of Ogoniland’. Now, where in Nigeria today can you get a copy of that Ogoni report? Our librarians and those who keep the archives have gone to sit down tight. But they need to ask for these documents because all the young ones would grow up and will need to ask what happened so they can trail the history of their fatherland. It is from what happened they would know what they should do. In fact, our librarians and archivers should be in the Confab to take notes and as soon as the meetings are over they have their own copies. But I don’t know if they are ever included in the Confabs because if they do; it would then not be impossible or difficult to get these reports well documented and archived. And that is the only way Nigeria can grow because we would be able to learn from history. And the government should even have included a few of the older ones who had attended past conferences to share experiences with them as a sort of reference point.
And we had Confab on one hand, Centerinary celebration on the other, what is your take?
For me, the Centerinary celebration was quite uncalled for. We have nothing to show for it. One hundred years of what? And we spent so much money and time? Let me ask this, do Nigerian leaders just appreciate when they are being flattered or what? If someone is flattering me, I’ll know he’s flattering me and tell him or her stop it there because I know myself. But for our leaders, the more they are driven off their feet by deceit when someone is flattering them to the marrows and that’s the more they dance nakedly in the public. It is a very unfortunate turnout of events in this country. The whole thing about Centerinary was borne out of flattery by sycophants as well as illiteracy and lack of a sense of patriotism. And what happens, today, all the government need to do was: ‘Nigeria is a 100 years old and everybody, gather in your respective churches and pray to God for the country and then tomorrow, return to your work. And that’s enough. But don’t just blame the leaders, blame more, the followers who only look for opportunities to get handouts from everything that has to do with Nigeria. Sadly, the leadership itself follows on gullibly because it can’t discern. Every leader should know who is he as far as I am concerned so no one could swindle him with sweet tongues.
Moving on, come 2015, President Jonathan is seeking re-election. What do you think about this move?
May the Almighty Father keep us all Nigerians till 2015. And I say, Amen. If President Jonathan stubbornly engages himself in running for the presidency in 2015, then, calamity will enter the Nigerian political territory. Recently, I was talking with some people and I told them we destroyed Nigeria’s political system when we abandoned the zoning system. Do you know why I believe in it? It is because each of us will be able to vie for the presidency of this country in the year 2015 due to the fact that it is coming to my area. Your hope is not caged because you know that everybody has reasons to hope that someday, it will get to their turn. And you keep hoping for that great day. But now, that hope can been caged. And will it ever revive again? And if it is not going to revive again, their plan is, let us destroy it. The zoning system was a great concept and many of us were happy when former President Olusegun Obasanjo went to town about it. We are all Nigerians and so, what is good for the goose, is also good for the gander. So, they must allow everybody to have a shot at it when it is their turn. But when they never allow this to happen and only some set of people keep recycling themselves all over; the people get fed up and disinterested in the so-called Federal Republic of Nigeria. If I were in power, I will advocate for the zooming system because it will make all of us equal and so section of the country will seem above the other. And no other section will seem inferior to the rest. Now, let me tell you this. When you look at America, you will think they are prophets of doom. They postulated that come 2015, Nigeria as a nation, will disintegrate. And if this would happen, America will play very prominent role to ensure that their terrible dream comes true.
Sir, let’s look at us, Nigerians; what do you think we really want?
I can say that Nigerians simply want the right man in the right place. Let’s take the Osun elections for an instance. The Osun people are begrudging Omisore for three reasons, while they begrudge Ogbeni Aregbesola over one vital point. But I am not the big mouth who will tell you what their grievances were hinged on. So, I will be surprised if Omisore then emerges the winner. However, Aregbesola is sure to win because there are no better opponents in that state. On TV, Omisore’s uncle declared that nobody will vote for his cousin.
On hindsight, in what aspects have you felt hopeful or disappointed in Nigeria?
I have felt and remained absolutely disappointed in the supply of electricity in Nigeria, for as long as I have live, in the area of insecurity, in the way we manage our oil wealth, in the way we manage the oil itself as a resource, and in the ways the FG gives appointment to undeserving people at the detriment of the Nigerian nation. These are enough disappointment to send anyone to an early grave and I am not ready to die yet.
So, where do we go from here?
Let us strive to give our youth the good future they deserve. We sent them to schools, polytechnics, universities, the National Youth Service Corps(NYSC) one year programme, and after all these, you are not able to give them jobs. That is so sad. So, where is the hope or future for the younger ones and how can you as a leader expect them to trust you? You can’t get their trust because you have not earned it. And it should not continue like this. So, the basic steps we must take is to sit down and have a programme with a set of activities to engage the young ones in skills developing jobs such as farming to boost agricultural production, carpentry, fashion designing with budgets to support their start-up. Leaders are not to wait till when they are through with colleges and start roaming the streets. Make them owners of businesses with monetary support and other wherewithal the moment they finish their tertiary education and all will be well. But if you send a youth to the agricultural institution and he finishes with no money to purchase seeds to plant or land to put what he has learned into practice, it is just as if the youth has never been equipped. That is the way I see it. If not, for people like me that is close to being called over by God, by the time our eyes go dim and about to shut for ever, may we be able to say ‘thank You God for this bad dream’. This kind of a thing can only be so because we have come, we have seen and we are now going back to God seeing that our leaders keep showing us there is no hope for Nigeria.
