Chief Bisi Ogunjobi, Ondo State-born septuagenarian meets the criteria of the typical Nigerian ‘Big Man’ considering the fact that he is a man of means who also has the right connections, carriage and charisma to go with it. But he is shorn of all the airs and haughtiness you naturally would expect from the typical bourgeois. Suave and gentlemanly, the elder statesman who boasts of over 30 years of meritorious service at the African Development Bank(AfDB) where he rose to the highest leadership cadre before his retirement in 2005, remains committed to the ideas and ideals of development both in the continent and Nigeria in particular. In this interview with Ibrahim Apekhade Yusuf, he attempts a prognosis of the sociopolitical and economic crisis assailing the continent, Nigeria and proffers workable solutions. Excerpts:
YOU are presenting two separate books to the public this week, A Journey in African Development, which is your autobiography and the other, is Transformative Paradigms in African Development. What informed the writing of these books?
Let me say that putting down my experiences through the years in the African Development Bank (AfDB), is informed by what I will say the need to get the new generation to appreciate what events have taken place in the course of my career in the African Development Bank. I’ll say that maybe close to half of my life, at least more than half of my adult life, were spent in the AfDB. When I look at the Bank and I see context in which we found ourselves, it’s basically about human development; how to improve the life of an ordinary man. And this is done through the main items of life: provision of shelter, infrastructure, food, health and development of the human capital. These are key areas in the development of any human being. And the level of development of such indices in the developing and in developed countries marks the differences between the social life of an African and that of the European. That is access to these facilities makes the difference. From an African, access to housing, good roads, electricity, and to general infrastructure like health, education much lower than we have in the developed countries. And that is the raison d’être for creating the African Development Bank and I was lucky at a relatively early age to have been involved with that. So my career path went through that. And I had the opportunity while in the Bank to work in all parts of Africa. I worked in the Southern Africa for many years where I was the Bank’s representative for the nine South African countries. I worked in North Africa including: Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, and Libya. I worked in West Africa, the whole of 16 ECOWAS countries. I was once the Bank’s Vice-President in charge of Central Africa. And that is the story of my journey in terms of geographical spread. But of course, I interacted with other international organisations like the World Bank and Islamic Development Bank, European Investment Bank that also work on African development. That is another strand of my journey. In terms of the nature, I worked with in the Central Bank of Nigeria, which is an institution not just in monetary policy but also in the development areas. I worked with Islamic Development Bank which very interestingly, although I’m a Christian and an elder in the church, is an Islamic Bank. And the reason why I could work there is simply because of my expertise. Because when Islamic Development Bank builds a road in Nigeria, the road is not going to be used by Muslims or Christians only. Unfortunately, this has been twisted in a way that people don’t see the development perspective of that institution in the continent.
Naturally, your career trajectory comes with a lot of experience. From your interactions with people in the world, what would you say is the distinguishing factor between the African and the rest of the world? I ask that question advisedly because you talk about indices of measuring development like access to health, education and all of that, which is still a big deal here but are a given elsewhere. So why has Africans failed to follow the path of success others take for granted? What do you think is missing?
I think this is a very important question and I will just sum it as governance. Governance is the way we manage human and material resources for the benefit of the people we govern. And the major difference in the two sets of countries that we are talking about is governance because in the process of that governance, you build institutions. In the process of that governance, you create human capital. That is you build people who have the education, knowledge and the capacity to move the economy forward. So in one of the chapters in my book, Transformative Paradigms in African Development, there is a key topic on governance, which is considered the key, the driver and virtually all in all to make a country or the economy progress in the direction that we are talking about. It was a paper I delivered sometimes ago. You see in the most developed countries, when you’re appointed to a position you want to see the contributions you can make to improve the place better than you met it. And of course, the system is in place that reduces or least checkmates the abuse of that office. And more importantly, if you abuse that office, there is in place structures, rules and regulations that will discipline such a person. All these are much weaker in the developing countries, so that the management of those resources is not in the same direction. It is not that our people are less intelligent, no. It’s not even education alone; it’s just your sense of responsibility towards the assignment which you are capable. And I feel that to a large extent, if you look at the history of all these countries, we have been talking of corruption everywhere, not in this regime alone. We have been talking about it in the previous administrations and all that. I think those are the stumbling blocks for this country to be where we should be, particularly when everybody knows that we have what it takes in terms of human and material resources. But in the management of these resources, governance is the key to our addressing the situation.
I recalled that in the past, Nigeria has had a smooth sail in terms of accessing funding from many Development Finance Institutions (DFIs). We just got some monies from some DFIs and still hoping for more. But just few weeks ago, the European Union said Nigeria and a few other countries was going to be blacklisted from further enjoying foreign interventions because of mismanagement of past resources. Given this donor-apathy by these institutions, some schools of thoughts have even argued that Nigeria should not be among countries seeking donor-funds in the first place. Do you share such sentiments and what do you think the country can do to be self-reliant?
Well, I think that no country can develop with donor resources because donor resources are supposed to be to complement your own resources. So the management of your resources either the one you got naturally or the one you mobilise from the international community must be done the same way. If you don’t properly manage your own resources, you will not be able to do the same even when it comes from external donors. So the issue is management and it’s going to be even worse because you have to pay back those loans. Today everybody is talking about debt sustainability in this country. If you look at the simple fact that in 2005 or 2004, when we had to get out of the debt trap when we had about $30 billion and today we have $60billion external debt. You want to ask question, what have we used those resources for? You want to ask yourself, what impacts had the projects which we borrowed those funds for had made on Nigerians? I think it’s a legitimate question today. When people ask me the question, why have we gotten where we are? You see one of the major problems facing this country is implementation of projects and the consistency of government policies, irrespective of the government that is on board, irrespective of the permanent secretaries and irrespective of the ministers in government. So when you have consistent policies and the management of those policies which strangles the implementation of those policies will have difficulties in moving in one direction.
Two key points from your response is that the country is battling the problem of inconsistent policies and mismanagement of resources. Would you want to expatiate?
I think the issue here goes beyond giving advice because the decision makers are the ones who know exactly where they are taking us to, so is not the advice. I can have a situation to say, irrespective of the advice, what we are saying is that the government should have the clear direction of where they want to move the country. And that is where, when we now have this three-year programme, they will now have the economy framework which the government want to know, its economy recovery from the recession we are now and of course, growth. And of course when you look at the title of the programme combined recovery and roadmap. So the key element in that show is what we are familiar with and they expect that this will enable us to move in that direction. Of course, this is also now going to be bedevilled by politics, and whether you like it or not because 2019 is when another president would be installed and 2018 is the period when the electioneering would be kicked off and to a large extent politics might compromise the economics. And that is the fear which we have.
Are these fears founded or unfounded?
I think it’s a natural development. If you are a government and you want to come back, then in implementing the programmes there is the possibility of not devoting the entire resources and time to those issues because you have an election at hand and don’t forget the opposition party will be working to ensure that they cannot demonstrate whether they have better alternative. So in a time of electioneering, priorities will change and priority will be given, may be perhaps to politics rather to economics. And I think that it’s a natural tendency everywhere not peculiar to this country alone.
We’re in a recession which has lingered for over one year and government and its spin doctors have made several assurances that this will be a thing of the past before the third quarter, judging by what the top echelons of the CBN said recently. But there are no visible signs anywhere?
Let’s look at it this way, if you see from the time the new administration came in, they started with a number of policies particularly in the area of agriculture. You see those policies and now the results of those policies are coming out particularly with respect to food production. We are now in the fourth or fifth raining season, therefore the policies in agriculture are now taking root and we’re seeing positive impact of the government policies in that area because if you look at the growth rate in the agricultural sector, it’s much higher than any other sector. To a large extent also, you find that the Central Bank of Nigeria has been able to tamper the volatility of the naira exchange rate. There was a time when it was over N500 to the dollar. Now I think it’s N360 to a dollar. So you can see the impact of those policies gradually sipping in. I think there is a better synergy now between monetary policy and fiscal policy between the Ministry of Finance and the CBN. There is a lot of enlightenment on why people should pay their taxes because that is a major area of revenue generation. You see that even the price of diesel has come down partly because the refinery has increased the production in the country both in Kaduna and Port Harcourt. So we are gradually seeing the impact of the various policies that have been put in place. But the problem which I raised is how can you make sure that this is not compromised by the elections in 2018 leading to 2019? I think that is the key. If the government stays on track we will be able to achieve some level of success.
You talked about borrowing from the international community. From the double talk from the minister, she is saying yes, we want to borrow, and no we’re not going to borrow. I think those are the sort of things that give you the impression that people are not getting their handle on the economy. But I think that should not be attributed to individuals. But you know this is the first time that the budget is taking out of the Ministry of Finance. In many countries, Finance and Budget are together. But in a few other countries, they are separated just like we have here. So I believe the experience of this new structure definitely is having an impact in the way the economy is being managed. Hopefully, by the next round when we’re now fully familiar with this, things might improve.
As you acknowledged, there are a few positives by this government including the Single Treasury Account (TSA) which has stemmed leakages in the MDAs substantially among other things. However, a lot of people share the view and very strongly too that these are really not something to cheer about, especially the war on corruption which remains largely a circus show because not any big fish has been brought to book. Do you think the government is on the right track as far as the war on corruption is concerned?
I think first of all, we should know that the war on corruption is the most important war we need to fight in this country. How it is done, how effective it is, and the impact will be judged more effectively when all of us are parts and parcel of that war. Not just the government, the private sector, the individual, the institutions must all support the government policy on anti-corruption because if we look at the negative impact of corruption, it affects everybody. And therefore, the way to look at it is in its multifaceted dimensions. The judiciary, the legislative and the executive must be on the same wave length; where you don’t have that happening, that’s when we now talk of the government being selective and all that. The government is looking at only those who are not in government, which is the opposition. There is a Yoruba adage which says: ‘Eni je gbi, lon ku gbi… (If you eat mysterious food, you die mysteriously). If you’re not infringed on whether you’re in opposition or in government, you will not be affected. Besides, everybody is focusing on the federal government, why are we not focusing at the state level? Why are we not focusing at the local government? Until we have this fight or war on corruption not just at the centre but also at the state and local government levels, we will not be able to succeed as a nation. Until the legislative, the judiciary and the executive arm of government can combine in looking at it together it will be very difficult to succeed. And the question should be the moment somebody is caught the law should take its course. I think everybody will today accept that the current administration has done a lot in bringing it to the fore. How effective it has been, that’s a different interpretation. But one thing one can say is that if people are hiding the money in the closet and burial ground, it shows that they cannot put it in the banks anymore, which means the banks which used to be source of money laundering are also been very careful. I think the fight should go on but it should go a little beyond those specific individuals. We should look at the institutions. How can we make EFCC more effective, how can we give it more teeth to bite, how can we reorient the ordinary man on the streets that look don’t compromise and be able to say no to corruption. Look at the corruption people are saying, but even the ordinary man on the streets is guilty as charged. You want to get things from a ministry, the obstacles are there and unless you play balls with them, then it becomes much more difficult. It’s a form of corruption. It is rampant in schools, in the universities, offices, churches, mosques, everywhere and nobody is talking about it. I think the war on corruption has to be a holistic approach, not just leaving it in the hands of the government. I think the government has given the framework and let us all join together.
As an insider could you tell us what the modus operandi of AfDB’s operations?
Well, the bank when of course, it started was based on contributions from African countries. We gathered at the time $250million, which the Bank started with. But today, the capital of the Bank is over $10billion. Not only that we get money from or shares by African countries. The Bank has been opened to non African countries. So as of today, we have about 54 African countries and about 27 non African countries who are shareholders. So they have contributions to the Bank. But more importantly, the Bank by its balance sheet goes to the capital market to borrow and borrows at extremely fine rates. So that’s why it’s able to lend to the various countries. So it is more of the strength of the Bank’s balance sheet that allows them to borrow at the international capital market. And of course, the subscription of the member countries they use as guarantees. The Bank is solid, the shares are owned by America, Britain, and Nigeria is the largest African shareholder.
What is the size of Nigeria’s equity currently?
It’s about 10 per cent.
In terms of getting intervention is it based on the level of shares owned by countries?
Not at all. Your access to the funding by the Bank is not related to your shares. If you have good projects, you benefit if you don’t have, you don’t. It’s as simple as that. But we also have the Concessional Fund, which is the African Development Fund, which is resources provided by the non African countries to the Bank to support African countries, at least on concessional terms. The interest rate is almost zero but with a commitment fee of about one per cent. That is the resources provided by these countries on a three-year basis, we call it the Replenishment Fund. It is a combination of these that constitute resources of the Bank.
At the same time, Nigeria way back in 1976 set up the Nigerian Trust Fund in the Bank with an endowment of about $80million to support other African countries and this has been exclusively managed by the AfDB to support other African countries. The resources are well managed and today we will be looking at about $500million, in terms of the Nigerian Trust Fund resources in the Bank.
Looking back at 70, what are the fond memories of growing up, your source of inspiration and all that?
Definitely, I have every reason to thank God for what He has done in my life. I come from a relatively well-off family because my father was a businessman. He was an illiterate because he never went to school and my mother too. But both of them had passion for education and therefore insisted that all of us had to go to school. That then gave you the advantage of standing on the higher pedestal in life. And that I thank my parents for, for giving me that opportunity to start at the higher level than a lot of contemporaries. I was very much impressed at a very young age by the school uniform. The school in my town, Ikare, Ondo State, that is Victory College, from time to time, you see the pupils in their uniforms, donning white shirt and navy-blue shorts. As a little boy that had a big impression on me that I wanted to be like those students. Then in 1958, the late Ambassador Ayodele, he is from my place. He was not an ambassador at that time, was coming from Fourah Bay University, in Sierra Leone after his graduation and all the pupils were supposed to line up to welcome him when he was coming from the university. And everybody said, oh, he is coming from Ilu oyinbo (white man’s land). Nobody knew the difference. Of course, it’s overseas. And we all went to meet and I said to myself, ‘look, I want to be welcomed the way that man was welcomed.’ So my ambition at that time was to say I want to be a graduate. But at the end of the day, I had my first degree at the University of Ibadan and nobody lined up to welcome me. (Laughs)… I think those are the two things that I remember very clearly that inspired me. But I was also lucky to have a wonderful principal in my first year in school, at Ado Ekiti Grammar School. And that is Oba J. F Alabi. By August 10 this year, he will be 101. He was my mentor. He took special interest in me from day one when my father brought me to the school and I’m very grateful to him. When he celebrated his 100 years, I was with him, and by God’s grace, I’ll be with him on his 101 years celebration.
What are you doing in retirement now?
Well, I think my passion nowadays is for my Foundation. I have the Bisi Ogunjobi Foundation (BOF), which I started in 1991. We had our 25th anniversary last year. It’s all to support youth’s empowerment and community development. We have given out scholarships, we have been organising lecture series and we have diversified into supporting paediatrics, that is young children in hospitals.
Why specifically, did you set up the BOF?
You see, one of the reasons why we created the BOF was that when I was in the primary school, I had one of my classmates, very brilliant chap and he had a fantastic handwriting. When he writes, you think it has been typewritten. And my handwriting is not very good. At times, I cannot even read what I have written. But he never had the opportunity to go to secondary school. In those days, my father would buy books for me and I will take my books to him to write my name in my books. That shows the quality of his handwriting which I admired. By the time, we left primary school; I went straight to a secondary school. You know those days some people go to modern school before they go to secondary school. But I was lucky to go directly to secondary school. From there, I went for my A-levels in Ibadan Grammar School before I went to the university. So by the time I graduated, I was still relatively young, I was 23 years and within one year of graduation I had a car. And I was driving and I stopped at a petrol station somewhere in Ekiti, Ikere and the person who came to attend to me was this fellow from my primary school days and that made an impact on me. And then I asked myself, ‘how much more I’m brilliant than this fellow? If he had had the opportunities which my parents gave me may be he will not be where he is. He could have been a better person. So that is the motivation that made me say , yes, if there is anything I can do to support indigent students , I will do that. And that is why we created the BOF. That has been my passion and I enjoy doing that. We thank God for what he has been able to use us for because what I have been praying for is Oluwa lo mi fun ise re ati ogo re. (Lord, use me as your vessel) and that has been my philosophy in life.
