Former Abia State Governor Orji Kalu spoke with reporters in Lagos on the Buhari administration, the anti-graft battle, terrorism, the Biafran agitation and other national issues. Correspondent KELVIN OSA-OKUBOR was there.
What is your take on plans by some governors to either sack or cut down on salaries of civil servants?
It is a truism that all is not well with the state of Nigeria’s financial economy. The current situation, if the truth must be told is that we are in dire straits. This time calls for deep reflection and serious financial reengineering by managers of the public sector.
This requires creative, strategic and visionary leadership by leaders at all levels because the reality is that the resources accruing from crude oil sales are dwindling by the day on account of falling oil prices in the international market .
Above all, leadership is about the ability to take the right decisions at the right time by putting the people first. Interestingly, governors should cut down on frivolous expenses to meet their financial obligation, especially workers salaries and payment to pensioners.
If it means converting a portion of the security vote to fix serious responsibilities, it is worth it.
This is because many governors allegedly siphon the so-called security vote. We must learn to live within our means as a way to sustain a decent life. Governors should leverage on other revenue sources to complement the federal allocation. The era of depending on a mono product economy is long over.
Are you not disturbed that, in the face of dire economic realities, President Muhammadu Buhari needs to hammer out serious economic interventions or measures to revive the economy?
I cannot agree with you any less on this matter. In fact, any casual observer of the Nigerian economic situation knows that things are not okay. As some observers have out put it, the economic house is falling. Unless urgent steps are taken, we may be heading for trouble economically. Put in a parable, we could situate the economic reality by seeing President Muhammadu Buhari as the manager of the economy as a distributor who has distributed goods to his customers, he came back to the market, all his customers closed the door, he didn’t see anybody to collect money from.
He called somebody and said break the door any door he broke, nothing was seen so he went back to all the shops, there was nothing again inside the shops, he didn’t see the goods he supplied them and he didn’t find any money that the shop owners were supposed to pay. That is the dilemma of the president if I can say. He didn’t tell me but this is what I feel.
I feel strongly that it will take the president the next two to three years to sort out this problem. Nigerians are always in a hurry and I am surprised, change don’t come easy. The situation is only comparable to somebody who supplied goods and could not get money back.
How do you think the president is feeling in this dismal scenario you have painted?
The president should be having hypertension now, but I am sure he is confused himself because the goods he supplied there are still there, even if he does not have his money. So, that is the position the president is right now. You know I am not a member of APC. So, I don’t speak for them. What I speak is the truth and people should not be expecting president Buhari to do miracles. I am not a member of his party, but he is a very close friend of mine and you should not be expecting President Buhari to do miracles. I don’t expect him to do miracle. There is no miracle in this business, he has to take his time.
The situation is made worse because oil prices have gone down and everybody is looking if there will be any slight change in the third quarter of 2016. Nigerians just elected their president for change and they want to see the change immediately. It is not possible. The president has to take his time, he has to take account of what he has seen and what he has not seen, from what I am hearing, they have not even started to ask questions about where is our money has gone to. So, many people said that many officials still need to answer some questions. My reading is that President Buhari as our leader is very unlucky. He came into the saddle of leadership for a change during a very difficult time.
What is your take on efforts by the Buhari administration to recover looted funds by the past regime through the anti – corruption measures?
I think President Buhari is on track in his efforts to revive looted funds by the past administration. The anti-corruption measure is not a drawback as some critics may want to see it. Given the malfeasance that took place in the last regime, the President is handling the situation very well. It is not a drawback at all. Buhari should know who he should call because there was massive looting, I am sure most people didn’t want to listen to some people like us, who were shouting about what happened in the last administration.
We said that there was corruption and the corruption that we saw in the last administration was very high. I told airport correspondents in one of my interview sessions when I landed at the Lagos Airport that there was corruption in the last regime. Though, I am a friend of the former president, but I spoke the truth. I told you people that I came from Emirates, Dubai and I have never seen the kind of corruption I am seeing. Then, in Nigeria, people are carrying the dollar by hand.
Journalists confronted me that why can’t I advise the former president and I remember telling them that, beyond friendship, the country comes first .
Our country comes first, So, I am still standing here. If Buhari is doing a bad thing tomorrow, I will caution him. I have written letters to President Obasanjo. I have written to Jonathan, although the one of Jonathan is not in the public and I have written letter to Yar’ Adua when he was president. I am sure Nigerians should be patient with President Buhari.
He might not do much in terms of infrastructure, but he will clean up the cobweb. There is a lot of cobweb in the system, we have lost process totally, the process I used to see when I was governor of Abia State, I no longer see the process, people should follow processes in doing soothing so you know business men like are in a hurry to make money, I am losing money, paying 10,000 workers is not easy so it is a problem, we need to be patient.
How do you think the government could fix the system?
This calls for serious reengineering in policies to rework the economy. We need to move away from dependence on crude oil receipts. I have been shouting for eight years that there is need to diversify the economy. At a point in time, I met my governor. I said that we must go back to manufacturing, farming production. There is a large market in West Africa and nobody is talking about that market, nobody is talking that we can produce, nobody is talking that we can go to farm, look at Nigeria is still importing maize, palm oil, can you imagine in this world.
What is your take on the approach to fighting corruption by the current administration?
I am convinced that the president is sending the right signal on how to fix the country by coming all out to fight corruption . Though his approach may need some modifications . I think Buhari should adopt the process methodology, not the personality or hate model .
So, I think the President should not do what Wole Soyinka proposed when he warned former EFCC chairman, Malam Nuhu Ribadu about his approach of going for alleged suspects and their family members. Remember, Soyinka advised Nuhu Ribadu then, if he cannot catch a governor, he could catch his mother. This was what Wole Soyinka said in a public fora. I am confident that the approach should be radically different. Buhari should not do adopt that approach of, if you cannot this governor, catch his, mother, a mother that didn’t do anything. This was the practice in the past and people kept quiet. So, I think Buhari should be just in his judgment. They should be thorough. Nobody is locking anybody up, I was kept by EFCC for two weeks. Are we following the right processes round?
The methodology adopted by EFCC now has changed. Now, suspects are questioned and told to go home. Any day they want to charge them to court they will charge them to court, which is a civilise way of doing it.
But, it is not everybody that they will tell that because there are some who have to be detained to be able to get more information and money looted from them. I am not saying that Buhari is totally not getting it right as to what they are doing, but the right process must be adopted .
Are you comfortable with the strategies adopted by government in fighting insurgency in the North?
I think president Buhari is on track because he has adopted the right strategy by engaging sub-regional efforts to tackle challenge of insurgency. As part of the trans national strategy, he adopted on assumption of office , he visited heads of state of neighboring countries, including Chad, Togo, Benin Republic Niger and Cameroon to secure the commitment of leaders of those countries on how to cooperate to stamp out insurgency. The former president Jonathan did not engage this strategy. But, Buhari has secured the friendship of these nations to enable him get their support to fight insurgency. This is the way to go in tackling this problem.
This strategy explains the successes so far recorded. Recall a few days ago that Cameroon said they have caught some insurgents. The strategy is paying off .
What is your reactions to the lingering agitation for self determination by the Movement for the Sovereign State of Biafra ( MASSOB)?
First, I think the signals we are getting from the agitation are quite intriguing in many respects. But, the government should not disregard the agitation The strategy of going violent by the agitators is not to be supported because violence in any form has never been the way to resolve issues of agitation for self determination. As a patriotic Nigerian, I believe in the unity and the indivisibility of this country. As an Igbere man from Abia State, I love this country and will continue to push for its togetherness. To be honest with you, those boys are right in their quest to agitate for self-determination. They have a right to demonstrate for what they consider may be their right as recognised by the United Nations Charter for Human Rights. But, what I do not agree with is the violence associated with the demonstrations, and the alleged killing of soldiers by the agitators .
No commander-in-chief of any country should tolerate such act by any group, no matter the issue involved. It is an affront on the state. If I were the commander-in-chief, I will never tolerate such brazen act of lawlessness and violence. Any group that kills one of my soldiers, I will invoke the law to handle such people. Nobody, no matter how disenchanted over their agitation should think of killing any soldier or police in the name of agitating for their own republic.
You cannot kill any soldier or police and get away with it. This is wrong, not because you are calling for your own republic. The United Nations charter gave them the big right to ask for self determination, it depends on the people to conduct a plebiscite, it is not a right of determination to go and destroy peoples’ properties, to go and destroy Nigeria Armed Forces, whether is Nigerian Army, Nigerian Navy or Nigerian Police. The quest for self-determination should not be used as an avenue to commit serious criminality.
Agreed it is a right. But, how do you go about it?
From the point of view of an international business man , the agitators could express how they feel about self determination. But, the question is: are those rights really worth it? If I were the President of Nigeria, I will like to annex Benin Republic and other countries to become what I will call the United States of Nigeria including some West Africa countries. So, why should any government allow any part of the country at this material time to clamour for being allowed to separate itself . So, why do you want to remove some parts now. Those boys also have a right to opt for what they want.
This remains largely conditional, if only the people in the affected areas are left to conduct a plebiscite, to say whether or not it is something the United Nations has properly defined as a precondition for such agitation. This is what you should do the people should do if they are no longer comfortable with their inclusion in the current political arrangement that constitute the the Federal Republic of Nigeria.
President Buhari should be very familiar with this development, because the agitation by MASSOB has been there from time immemorial. It is not something new. If I were the president I will consult and engage some high profile traditional rulers and some political leaders to go and ask the boys what do you really want, what is really their problem, what can we do to stop them from asking for this. What is the reason for this agitation? If we take our minds back, that was how the insurgency by Boko Haram started. When the insurgents first started the killings, it occurred in a Catholic Church. And as an adherent of that denomination, I vehemently condemned it. I told you airport correspondents that when Boko Haram finished killing the Catholics, they would go and kill everybody. This was how kidnapping started when I was governor, they were kidnapping white people and I spoke out, people in Federal Government abused me.
I said when they finish kidnapping white people and there is no more white man to kidnap, they will kidnap us and that is what is happening in the country today.
So, I will advise the Federal Government that as a federation, it must by properly managed to resolve agitations by some people, who are seeking to opt out as a republic .
Government cannot stop people from such agitation, what is critical is how the issue concerning such agitation is handled .
It is the management of the people that matters.
President Buhari as a matter of fact should set out to engage traditional rulers and leaders of thoughts with security and intelligence agencies on how to resolve this potential trouble .
Resolving the agitation for self determination needs an all inclusive strategy ,not use of force , or carrying guns .
Government needs to engage the agitators and make them realize that it is ready to resolve whatever issues they have raised .
I must advise security agencies that using force to quell the agitation for self determination at this time is not the best strategy .
It is a wrong strategy hearing people saying that we will quench it by force, we cannot quench anything by force because it is their right to ask for self determination.
Recall what happened in Eastern Europe , they used engagement strategy not force .
My advise is that it is only a president that does not know what he wants that will want a section of his country to go. I think negotiation is part of democracy.
What do you think about the parlous state of roads in the South East that the MASSOB agitators have alluded to as evidence of neglect of the region by successive administrations ?
Reasonably, this is a serious matter. Honestly, the state of the roads in this region is not good at all. Consider for instance,the Enugu-Port Harcourt, Aba- Umuahia Express Road that has not been constructed .
If I were the president I will fix this road in the next two years to quell this recurring agitation .
What about the Oka – Onitsha Expressway , it is not yet constructed , what about the Umuahia – Ohafia – Arochukwu Road leading to Cross River , government should fix these roads within a short time as part of measures to resolve the agitations .
What about Arondizuogu – Okigwe Expressway , the road has not been fixed .
The government should also consider fixing Enugu – Makurdi Road , it is not good that people are dying on these roads everyday .
It is for these roads that I quarreled with the Obasanjo administration since 2001.
I consistently drew attention to the fact that roads in the South East, in particular federal roads were very bad and government has taken this for granted .
Look back at what I said over ten years ago about the state of our roads , they are still recurring today and government is still playing politics with it.
To sustain the unity of this country, which is foremost , government should look at these issues and resolve them . That is the truth and it must be said .
Could you clear the air on insinuations that you are planning to defect to the All Progressive Congress ( APC) as a friend and supporter of Buhari to galvanize support for him if he wants to run for a second term in 2019?
There is no doubt that I am a friend of Buhari .
Well I will tell you the truth, my mother is in APC, you know Buhari is a family friend , he is a chieftaincy holder in Igbere in our village, he was awarded a
Doctorate degree when I was governor in Abia State.
This happened at a time the former president gave me a call that nobody should be given doctorate that day, we went ahead to honour Buhari With the doctorate degree .
The former president was opposed to this because Buhari was contesting against Obasanjo in 2003.
For me, all these things are minor, which party you belong to does not make any meaning, what is important is that the president is a friend of the family and if he handles Nigerians well, he is a young man as far as I am concern comparing him to Mugabe.
If Buhari handles the country very well , he will be running for a second term in 2019, I will support him but, that is not a condition to join the APC.
Membership of any political party is immaterial at this time . All that is critical is that I have access to the President anytime .
There is no time I told Buhari I want to see him that he has declined .
He is not the type of president that to businessmen , who are going around the corridors of power looking for business .
Any businessman going to Buhari with the hope of getting business has missed it .
The president has a lot of job in his hands .
If I were in Buhari’s position, I will run for second term, that is the truth, there is no Nigeria president who didn’t ask for second term but it also behooves on Buhari to treat Nigerian people very well so that he can gain their endorsement for a second tern bid.
What is your take on the issue of removal of fuel subsidy , what is affecting the oil and gas sector ?
The president needs to be convinced to remove fuel subsidy , because it does not favour the poor .
The fuel subsidy thing is only the benefit of the rich .
But, Buhari is yet to be convinced .
In my opinion , removal of fuel subsidy will favour the poor, who constitute the thinking of the president .
The president thinks more about the poor, that is the truth, we need to continue telling the president that this subsidy is not for the poor, it is for the rich and I don’t blame him because the man who wants the poor people to get something.
He is a man who thinks more about the poor, he is a man who could have bargain everything for himself, this is a man I know him very well he has no attachment to say this is my business, I am going to give Orji Kalu business, some business people who are going to him thinking that he will give them business, they are wasting their time.
He is thinking about majority of those boys carrying Biafra flag, he is thinking about them, he is thinking about all those people who are carrying guns for Boko Haram and how they can stop .
I discussed subsidy with him, his answer was, what happen to the poor and it behooves on his economy team to look him in the face and tell him that honestly Mr. president we must remove subsidy and it depend on Nigerians to also get on him and say that we must remove subsidy .
You don’t blame a man who is not a business man like me, he never traded in oil he is minister of petroleum yes, am not sure he knows basically that this subsidy is just for rich people who are trading on the oil.
It behooves on his economy team between now and the next few months or few years to convince him and say no, we will continue losing money if you don’t remove subsidy .
Could you tell us what happened to your bid to become president of FIFA ?
The truth is that I never aspired to be one president of FIFA .
But, some people know that I have the capacity to handle the body .
Blatter endorsed me , with many heads of state in Africa.
Even, Great Pele of Brazil endorsed me , with many powerful countries in Africa who wanted me to run .
They wanted Nigeria to run for that exotic position But as a country we took it for granted .
Pele could not have saying Nigeria should run without narrowing it down to somebody . I will speak on FIFA more elaborately in the future . I will speak on why I did not run for FIFA in the future .
What plans do have in place to bring back Slok Air ?
Slok Airline is going to come back, well you know the case
of Slok Airline is before a Federal High court judge and I cannot really go deep on it.
We have taken the Federal
Government to court and we sued them to pay us N35billion, if two people are fighting it is only the court that will
separate you .
The Ministry of Aviation planned to ask us to take back our operating license and shut up.
And we have said no to such plans. Remember we had 14 aircraft kept on the ground for over one year .
That is a huge loss .
The reason we are suing the ministry is to get our money back .
For over one year , we did not fly , we need our money back .
We invested over forty billion Naira , and we are only asking for N35 billion .
We will stand by the decision of the court.
We will pursue our case to the Suprehe a Court to enforce our rights and the damages done to our business .
We will exhaust all legal avenues to enforce our rights .
People just think that the judiciary is weak , that is not true, the judiciary had saved us many times .
I know that some judges are corrupt , there is no segment of Nigeria that is not corrupt .
Slok airlines will return to correct some deficiencies in the aviation industry , because you know we are very efficient .
