You were recently elected chairman of the human rights institutions in West Africa. How do you feel about this and what do we expect from you in this respect?
Well, the election of Nigeria and, invariably myself as the chairman of the Human Rights Institutions in West Africa, is a mark of the recognition of the role Nigeria is playing in the West African sub-region in relation to the protection of human rights. During this period, we will ensure that Nigeria champions the cause of human rights protection. Very soon, we are going to embark on a tour of all the countries within the sub-region and we are going to meet with governments at all levels to ensure that we adequately sensitise the governments about their obligations to the people within the sub-region. We are going to work closely with the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) to ensure that human rights are not only recognised within the Sub region, but that they are also observed and respected.
How do you feel about the human rights condition of the country now?
I am sure that you are aware of the current human rights situation in the country that whole international community is concerned about, beginning with the series of demolitions of residential buildings and forced evictions of the citizens by the various authorities or institutions of government to the killings that have recently taken place in the country.
Can you mention some of these incidents to be specific?
Well, you are aware of the present situation in the northeast where there have been reported cases of killings of people, you are also aware of what happened in Baga, where people have been alleged to have been killed by the security forces. You are also aware of what happened in Nasarawa State, where security agents were killed by unknown persons.
Now, the international community, like the nation and Nigerians are concerned.
There are cases and allegations of forced demolition of residential houses and forced eviction of Nigerians by different government authorities and institutions. What is your reaction to these developments?
With respect to demolition and planned evictions in the country, we first received complaints from the residents of Mpape people here in the Federal Capital Territory (FCT) in Abuja. We also received complaints from the residents of Rivers State, over the demolitions that took place in Water Front in Port Harcourt. We received complaints and petitions from the Makoko people in Lagos and, most recently, from the Badiah people there in Llagos.
So, what is your reaction to all these petitions and complaints?
We have been telling all the agents of governments and various authorities that the due processes of law must be followed before any demolitions are carried out or their planned eviction of Nigerians from their residence. First of all, government continues to justify these actions on the grounds that these people are either licensees or in occupation of these areas unlawfully. Our commission has taken a very giant step towards trying to put an end to these issues planned demolitions or forced eviction. I want to let you know that as a commission here on daily basis, we receive more than 200 petitions from all over the world, particularly from members of the Amnesty International with respect to these forced evictions and demolitions.
So, what have you done in this respect?
Well, I have led a team of investigators from the commission here and we went to Mpape, we went to Lagos, we went to Port Harcourt and to all these places where demolitions took place. We also engaged the governments and despite the various interventions by this office, most of which yielded fruitful results because we were able to prevail on various governments to stop such demolitions in Abuja here, Lagos and in Port Harcourt. Despite these efforts, there are still incidents of forced evictions in the country.
What is the commission doing to address these?
What the commission has been able to do in this respect will be to carry out a public inquiry, where all the various stakeholders will be invited, where the aggrieved persons will be invited, where the perpetrators, the government authorities will all be brought together and holistically, the issue will be looked into together and the commission will come up with very significant and fundamental recommendations. We are hoping that after the public inquiry, the commission will come out with policy guidelines which the government will adapt. We will recommend the same to the government to adapt, and this will become a working document for all government authorities to follow, in cases where they plan to remove people from where they are residing and then we will recommend the payment of compensation to all the aggrieved persons. We will come up with either policy issues and recommendations that we once and for all put the issue to rest
Why has the commission not taken definite steps following the investigations that were carried out in some of those places?
The reason that the commission has not taken definite steps following the investigations that were carried out was the fact that some of these complaints that were received, the complainants already decided to take them to courts, so, some of these matters are before the courts and as a result of that, he is very hesitant in coming out with final determinations. So, as not to interfere with the proceedings in the courts. For that reason, we are carrying out these public inquiries and we are hoping that these efforts by the commission will bring to an end, cases of forced demolition in our country.
Kidnapping of innocent citizens has become almost a daily occurrence in the country. Recently, the wife, daughter and driver of a Justice of the Supreme Court were kidnapped. How do we overcome this national challenge?
This commission has continued to engage the Nigeria Police and other security agencies with regard to the need to protect the lives and properties of Nigerians. Recently, the commission called upon the Federal Government to take steps that will ensure the safety of Nigerians and to provide security for Nigerians. Security is very vital to human rights protection and it is the responsibility of the government to ensure the protection of the human rights of all citizens and all persons living here in Nigeria. To this end, we do consider it as a principal obligation that the government owes, it is a duty that the government must undertake for the interest of the populace. So, we are a national human rights institute that is charged with the responsibility of protecting the rights of people have continued to ensure that the government lives up to its obligations. Despite that, most of these incidents that have occurred, we have called on the Police that they must ensure that not only that the perpetrators are found, but that the rights of the victims are protected in a way that the perpetrators are found, the victims are released. So, it is one major challenge that we have in this country but apart from the fact that we ask the government to take prompt steps to have these kidnapped victims to be released and to ensure the protection of Nigerians, we also engage the government to ensure that the root causes for some of these activities are addressed. You may find that these activities can also be linked to the general insecurity and the general factors that today are responsible for what is happening in the country. Most of them stem from the high rate of unemployment in the country, the high rate of poverty in the country, of cause poverty cannot be used as an excuse for people to engage in criminality. You do find that when people are unemployed, when people are so poor, they have no food on their table and all that, they can engage in engage in all manner of activities. So, it is the responsibility of the government to take all these factors into consideration and look at the whole situation holistically and then adopt the strategies that will bring to an end all such incidents. But again, as a commission, we call upon all Nigerians to work and to support the government in this area. It is the responsibility of every Nigerian to rise and then support the Nigerian government because this situation is such that we cannot fold our arms and allow the government alone to take actions. We owe the responsibility to every Nigerian to report such incidents to the appropriate authorities and law enforcement agents. Most of these criminals who are responsible for these activities are living among Nigerian and some Nigerians do know them. So, Nigerians must cooperate with security agencies and support the government
In which ways can we co-operate with the government to tackle these menace?
One way of co-operating with the government is by reporting the activities of such people, people that we know that do these acts must be reported and people must take steps to co operate with the security agencies so that the perpetrators of this evil act will be apprehended and punished, accordingly, when they are punished, then this will serve as a deterrent to future occurrences
The President recently declared state of emergency in three states, namely, Borno, Yobe and Adamawa states. How do we ensure the protection of the rights of civilians in those states?
Yes, we have for a long time been advising the security agencies to adapt and to comply with the rules of engagement, particularly when dealing with insurgents. There are two issues here, first, the security agencies must accept, as stated by the President, when he said, in those areas, the activities of those unknown persons constitute a war being declared against the sovereignty of Nigeria. If we do agree today that there is a war being declared then we must comply with the rules of the law of armed conflicts.
What does the law on armed conflicts say?
The law of armed conflicts states that where a person is not participating in an armed conflict, such a person must be spared and must not be attacked. So, in this regard, we have called upon the security agencies to ensure that humanitarian law is made applicable in this kind of situation, that is to say, innocent people must be spared by all means and then if engagement is made, it must be directed only at the combatants that is the people who have taken up arms against Nigerians and against the security agencies. It is only in this way that you will ensure the protection of the rights of the people in that place. In a situation where members of the so called armed groups lay down their arms, then it becomes obligatory for the security agencies not to attack them. But to arrest them and have them properly prosecuted in the manner accepted by law. And again, if we take it that there is no armed conflict in that place, it then means that we must comply with human rights law and human rights law dictates that people should only be treated in accordance with the provisions of the law. Now that we have a state of emergency and the rule of law temporarily seemed to be modified, the modification of the rule of law in this area should not extend to a point whereby the rights of the people are completely ignored. The rule of law must be looked upon and the combatants must comply with the rules of engagement.
Some Nigerians, civil society groups and rights institutions have consistently called for the provisions of Chapter Two of the constitution to made justice able to enhance better life for the people. What is your position on this?
We have said it before, as an institution that is responsible for the protection of the rights of Nigerians, there are ample provisions in the constitution that makes Chapter Two of the constitution justiceable because if you look at Section 13 of the same Chapter two that we are talking about, it states clearly that all organs of government must ensure the implementation of the provisions of that Chapter which then means that for the Courts, they are under a constitutional obligation to bring into meaning and effect the provisions of Chapter two. So, the fact that there is another Section in the constitution that says yes, the provisions of Chapter two are not justiceable, another provision in the constitution still says that the organs of state are under an obligation to ensure that Chapter is implemented. But apart from that, Nigeria as a country that has acceded to international instruments for the protection of rights of the people and for the fact that we are bound to apply customary international law, some of the provisions of the said Chapter two today constitute law in terms that they have become part of the customary international law which our Courts are bound to apply. So for us as an institution that has the obligation and a mandate to enforce these rights, we will at any given point in time, when we receive a complaint in this direction, we shall proceed to enforce such rights that are contained in Chapter of the constitution by virtue of the fact that this do constitute part of the customary international law, but again, much of this provisions of Chapter two are contained in some of these international instruments like the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights (ACHPR), which Nigeria acceded to and which Nigeria has ratified and of which, Nigeria is under an international obligation to ensure the implementation and enforcement.
