Tag: internal democracy

Akwa Ibom State Resident Electoral Commissioner Mike Igini spoke with reporters in Uyo, the state capital, on restructuring, the sanctity of the ballot box and internal democracy in political parties. Excerpts:

WHAT is your reaction to the agitation for restructuring?

I think that, from the outset, we should be clear that restructuring is not about the break-up of  Nigeria as some have tried to insinuate to obstruct or make a win-win sane development conversation a difficult one. Look, if after over a hundred years of almagation and 57 years of independence we are still shamefully grappling with the intricies of even how to live together and have completely undermined our progress, common sense dictates that we should tell ourselves inconvenient truths, no matter how far we have gone on the wrong route, as well as,  why we fared better in development terms in the First Republic before the military intervention derailed us from the path of steady growth and development under a political arrangement that our key liberating fathers bequeated to us. There is urgent need to get ourselves out of the structural gridlock that the military put Nigeria, by restructuring our political economy in order to unlock the potentials that abound in this country, in a way that would make the 36 states centers of production, generation of wealth and job creation instead of being idle and unproductive centers of monthly collection of rents from Abuja that is itself the chief rent collector that  took over the wealth of the states and dwells only in collecting rent from only one out of the 68 items in the Exclusive list. This is unlike the United States where the central government controls only 18 items and all other activities that generate wealth from which taxes are paid to the centre left for the 50 states, which is why it is the foremost of the great nations today. The current debate on restructuring should be seen mainly from a development point of view and the consequent benefits to Nigeria. Looking back at the history of development, it was the practice to measure the development of countries from how much economic growth a country generated hence for those who are familiar with economic literature, you will recall people like Adam Smith, David Ricardo and others talked about nations generating wealth and concerned principally with trade balances and levels of gross production. But over time it became clear that this big picture did not fully tell the whole story of the wellbeing of everyone in the nation, hence a nation can earn so much, like Nigeria, from oil rent collection yet be filled with people who are struggling daily to eke a living, whereas a few or several people in that nation are accumulating humungous wealth as is the case with Nigeria tragically. This reality caused others to take a closer look at the object of development, first some re-classified the wealth of the nation on the basis of the  spread of the wealth, then the notion of disparities, inequalities or unequal gradients in wealth of societies, others looked at what enhanced or reduced these inequalities. Among those who were prominent in the latter endeavor is Armyta Sen, who propounded that when society treats some of its people in such a way as to deny or diminish their abilities to fully function in society as we have done to the states of  federation totally emasculated from wealth creation and denial of  these states across Nigeria, this reduction in capabilities promote poverty and diminished the wealth of the nation as a whole and consequently its development. Sen therefore pointed out that the object of development must include not only the gross economic  growth or trade advantages, but also the capabilities of citizens and states to fully function in economic activities. So development became clearer as not just the earnings of the nation or its economic trade balances as Ricardo and Smith conceptualized but also how it is spread and how it enhances the wellbeing of every level or stratum of the people of the nation.

So, restructuring is about development and not a break-up ?

Precisely, its essentially about development and how to stimulate economic activities to improve the wellbeing of Nigerians. it is about making every part of the country involved in productive economic activities and generate wealth that would enhance the welfare of our people and that is why scholars like  Mahbub Ul Haq used the premise of capabilities of the citizens initiated by Sen to develop a composite measurement that can access human development using several key factors like Human Development Index which is a  composite index that uses life expectancy, education, and per capita income to measure the development of nations. Now how do all these issues link with restructuring, they are linked because first it reminds us that we are not  a country called Nigeria just to conduct elections, elect people, sell petroleum  and collect Value Added Tax  so that we can move from year to year boasting about a few billionaires.

You have said that the proposed amendments to the Electoral Act would impact on the 2019 and future electoral outcomes. Could you give insight to these provisions?

I have no doubt that some of these proposed new amendments would impact profoundly on the electoral outcomes if fully implemented by us. For example, in the proposed new amendments, there are now sections that allow  all Political Party Agents to verify all documents to be used for an election in writing and if necessary by video recording, the amendment further invalidates any election conducted without following this provision and further prescribes imprisonment of one year or a million naira (N1,000,000.00) fine for any electoral official who fails to comply with it. This amendment like several others to my mind shows that the Legislators have taken into account some of the observed challenges of 2015 elections when there were reports of absence of original copies of form EC8A at polling units and now the law is aimed at ensuring accountability of such critical electoral documents thus making future elections more transparent but as we have always known, the devil is in the implementation and enforcement.

The Card Reader has not been given legal recognition by the courts. What is the legal status of the card reader now as 2019 gets closer?

Again, that is another important and commendable lesson learned with improvement by the legislators. They have not only gone ahead to legitimize the card reader, but have empowered INEC as the Election mangers to also be able to  freely adapt to newer technologies by indicating that a presiding officer may use “a Smart Card Reader or any other technological device that may be prescribed by the commission from time to time for the accreditation of voters, to verify, confirm or authenticate.” This is brilliant and elegant policy drafting. It conforms to the reality of the hierarchy of policies, Political policy gives the vision, namely acceptable elections, Executive policy prescribes the enabling process and rules-the Electoral Act, they both should leave technical details such as technology which can change with speed beyond the decision-making adaptability of legislatures or other such minutiae of operational details to departmental policies which is what an INEC board is meant to do through its ICT and operation departments that should be accorded legal validity by virtue of sections 73, 153  of the Act and 160 of the Constitution but unfortunately the courts failed to do so with respect to matters of the 2015 elections. Now the Card Readers’ usage has been fully secured in the proposed Act.

Apart from accreditation process and polling units result that appear to be secured, there have been persistent allegation of alteration of results, either on the way to or at collation centers. Does the proposed amendment address this very important aspect?

Legitimacy is key to exercise of power because the basis of every system of authority and correspondingly of every kind of willingness to obey by the governed is based on the belief that those exercising authority derive it from the consent of the people and it is on that basis that they are lent prestige. So, anything that will enhance the legitimacy of the election process is good for those declared as winners through a better electoral process, hence some of these issues have been taken into consideration in the new amendments that provide multiple points for verification, that requires the Presiding officers to not only count and announce the result at the polling unit before the stakeholders, including journalist and observers, who are now allowed to record this entire process possibly electronically, the result must also be recorded in the prescribed INEC documents before these stakeholders, and the results transmitted electronically not only to the collation center for the election but also to a central INEC database for the particular election. Any breach of any of the above will attract a jail term of not less than five years without option of fine.

Are there provisions to deal with problems of party primary arising from absence of internal party democracy?

This is another area where amendments were also made to try to intervene in the chaos that often characterises Political Party nominations due to arbitrariness by Party bigwigs and Party officials. Now, a time frame of about 120 days or about 4months to an election has been given to provide certainty of delegates to a primaries except where over 50 percent of such a list are no longer party members or there is proof of death of these delegates, then a 10 day window prior to the election is the maximum allowable, but only for the latter reasons as contained in S.87 subsections 11, 12 and 14(5). Where Election Managers collude with parties to falsify such nominations as prescribed by law, they may be jailed for at least five years without option of fine. I personally applaud these amendents given the sad electoral history of Party Primaries outcomes that have proven to be one of the weakest links in our elections, I believe much more attention needs to be paid to the issue of internal party demoncracy that usually triggers crisis in these parties before election and drag on in courts after election. We have suggested at different platforms that the matter of selecting party delegates  for an election, although it should be left to the parties, must however be subjected to two legal requirements. The party rule regarding nominations must be submitted in several copies to INEC with sworn court affidavits signed by the Chairman and Secretary, any amendments to it must not be made 6 months before any election, such amendments made before that time to the copies at INEC must have the Party Resolution where such amendment was made submitted with a court affidavit. where a party selects candidates, the minutes of the meeting, convention or delegates conference must be provided with a sworn court affidavit supported by an attendance list and signature of officers that  formed a quorum. Providing such legal teeth around the selection of party delegates will not eliminate all problems, but it will empower party members in making their choice of preferred candidates, and whatever parties do will at least conform to some rules that are not very opaque.

Prof. Taoheed Adedoja is a former Minister of Sports and Special Duties and a Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) chairmanship aspirant. In this interview with reporters in Abuja, the Federal Capital Territory (FCT), he speaks on his aspiration, the prospects of the party in the next general elections and other partisan issues. Assistant Editor GBADE OGUNWALE was there.

As the race for the position of the National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) gathers momentum, one of the aspirants in the race, Prof Taoheed Adedoja, has kicked against calls by some stakeholders for a consensus candidate. Adedoja said the PDP ought to have learnt enough lessons from the instability often associated with past party chairmen that emerged through consensus.

He said: “A chairman that emerges through a process that is not credible will continue the process of lack of credibility. All stakeholders in the party must be allowed to determine who their chairman will be”. The former minister added that starting from 1998, almost all past PDP chairmen that emerged through consensus arrangements or that were handpicked to occupy the position had their tenures truncated by the same forces that installed them.

The 66-year-old aspirant said he decided to join the race because he believed the PDP needed someone of his pedigree to rebrand the party ahead of the 2019 general elections. Describing himself as the most acceptable among the aspirants for the position, Adedoja said he had so far covered more than 31 out of the 36 states in the federation and that he was well received by stakeholders everywhere he went.

Adedoja added that the PDP required a National Chairman with a thorough understanding of the political thinking of the Nigerian people. He stressed that modern day party administration is too dynamic to be left for fixated individuals.

The aspirant lamented the failure of majority of party men and women to pay annual dues, saying the trend has put a heavy financial burden on governors on the party’s platform. He said: “The PDP governors should be commended for their roles. It has been a big financial burden for them to keep bailing out the party, because members are not paying their dues. But rather than saying the governors are not doing the right thing with their considerable influence in the affairs of the PDP, I must commend them for coming to the aid of the party whenever the need arises.”

He observed that the upcoming national convention would certainly put the party to another test and that the lessons learnt during the recent 14-month leadership crisis that engulfed the party should guide the present leadership against the culture of impunity and imposition of candidates.

Prof Adedoja is of the view that equity demands that the new National Chairman should emerge from the Southwest geopolitical zone, because the zone is the only one that is yet to produce a chairman since the party was formed in 1998.

He added: “However, the choice of Southwest should not be dictated. Let the other zones agree by delegates that the Southwest has not occupied that seat. The position of PDP today is beyond anointment.”

The PDP chieftain promised that if elected national chairman, he would work tirelessly to help the PDP to produce the next President in 2019. He said under his able leadership, the party will witness the enthronement of discipline and internal democracy. His words: “The PDP of today will bring us two things: the PDP of tomorrow and the new platform that will produce the President of Nigeria in 2019. This is because the party is desirous of doing the right thing and giving Nigerians and PDP members fresh ideas to make amends for what it had done in its 16 years in government. I believe I owe Nigeria and the PDP the opportunity of making myself available for the leadership of the party. I have offered myself to lead the party to that promised manifesto; to lead the party to that promised reinvigoration of the aspirations of Nigerians, in terms of their high expectations.”

Prof Adedoja expressed the confidence that the PDP would unseat the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) in the 2019 presidential election, saying Nigerians are already yearning for the return of the party. He noted that it is just a little over two years that the APC assumed power at the centre, but that the people are already craving for the PDP to return to power.

He added: “There is a reason for it. Sometimes, a party will rule for many years, the people in that country may not even want that party to come back again. Sometimes, and depending on the country, they would let an opposition party to rule for another 16 years, so that they can compare the two. But Nigerians are now in a hurry for PDP to come back only after two years. What Nigerians expect now is to give the PDP another opportunity to come back in 2019. If, therefore, Nigerians expect the PDP to rule and rule better, the party platform in which the President of Nigeria will emerge must therefore be better, the process must be better and will involve a spectrum of members of the PDP.”

The aspirant insisted that the PDP made a lot of positive changes in the lives of Nigerians in the 16 years that the party held political power at the centre. In his own estimation, past PDP administrations made significant changes in sectors like the economy, education, health, infrastructure, agriculture, rural development, railway and other transportation sub sectors.

Urging the party leadership to be transparent in the conduct of the elective convention, Adedoja recalled that lack of transparency in the internal selection process was partly responsible for the heavy losses the party suffered in the 2015 general elections. His words: “There are two issues in governance: Implementation of programmes for the good of the people and the nation. The second one is the mode of your emergence as leaders. The major reason the PDP lost elections two years ago was not because it did not provide the dividends of democracy for Nigerians. The issue was the process involved in providing the kind of democracy that is accepted by Nigerians, especially the PDP members.”

Adedoja vowed to put an end to impunity and imposition of candidates during elections, stressing that he would ensure a clean break from the past. He said: “That’s how to demonstrate enough commitment toward bringing the party back to the people and upholding the party’s constitution and manifesto.”

Asked to rate his chances of winning the seat against other political heavyweights in the race for the party’s chairmanship, he said he remained the man to beat. Notable among those in the race are: a former Deputy National Chairman, Chief Olabode George; a former Education Minister, Prof Tunde Adeniran; and former Governor Gbenga Daniel of Ogun State.

Lagos State All Progressives Congress (APC) governorship aspirant Senator Ganiyu Solomon spoke with reporters in Lagos on his ambition, zoning, the agitation for a Christian governor and the fate of the party in the next general elections. EMMANUEL OLADESU was there.

What are your expectations about the next governorship poll in Lagos State?

Democracy translates to participatory governance, which means everybody gets involved; you participate. And that differentiates it from a dictatorial government. Dictatorial government is just about a few people, and that was what we had during the military era. There was the accusation that, ‘all these parties, you’re not allowing internal democracy.’ And they kept saying, ‘yes, we’re guaranteeing internal democracy.’

I remember when Chief Akande spoke on this, because he was the first person to give something close to a manifesto, of sorts, before the official launch of the party. And part of what he said, apart from fighting corruption, is that in this our party, we are going to make sure we imbibe the culture of internal democracy. So, anything that will make the party look at another direction, instead of a particular direction, will make it short on internal democracy. So, to me, it’s about perception. Some people may say the body language of the leadership is tilting towards this person; at the end of the day, it’s about perception. I say this because I relate with the leadership; none of the leaders have said, ‘I don’t think you can go,’ or ‘you’re not going,’ or has sent somebody to me to say ‘you’re going back to the senate.’ As far as  I am concerned, any way, the issue of the Senate is closed; I am not going back to the Senate. Maybe, we should start with that:  I am not going back to the Senate; that is settled.

What is your reaction to the endorsement of Mr. Akin Ambode for the governorship election by the Olowo-Eko, Oba Rilwan Akiolu?

Let me say that, in making the pronouncement, Kabiyesi was expressing his preference. He has also expressed his personal opinion. We’re talking of a party now; I don’t know which part or provision of the constitution of the party says a traditional ruler endorses or can endorse. Whatever he says is his personal wish, which is not the same thing as the wish of the generality of the people.

At the end of the day, we have a party structure. Let me also tell you that he made the pronouncement at a time when we had not even concluded putting party structures in place. So, it couldn’t have been in consultation, with who? Is it with the political leadership? Is it with the traditional leadership? We’ve had different opinions since then. We deliberately did not come out to say anything about it because we felt it was a political statement. And what do you do with political statements?

You either respond or you leave it. In this case, we decided to leave it. It has happened a number of times when a traditional ruler in one state would say, ‘this is the person we want.’  At the end of the day, the man would not go anywhere. It has happened several times. I don’t want to cite instances. Even in Lagos, it has happened. In our own case, such statements would not deter us. It will not deter the party man.  What is the weight of a vote? Every vote carries the same weight, regardless of the status of the individual. So, what anybody can do is to go behind his chosen, preferred, aspirant, mobilise people behind him, and provide a level playing field. It is not even for them to do that, that is the provision of the constitution; that is the tenet of democracy – provide a level playing field. And there must be transparency. Whoever wins becomes the party’s candidate, every other person queues behind him. It is not by pronouncement it is not by proclamation;, yes, they were using proclamation years ago to annex, to cede, land , to cede society, to cede country, but not now. That is now out of vogue; this is democracy, you can’t do that. So, we’ll just leave it at that – it is political and we, politicians, take as political, and consign to its proper place.

Consensus or primaries, which would you recommend to your party?

Now, we have a much more bigger party; that means it has also increased our stakeholders. And let me also remind you recently, we had a very aggressive membership mobilisation drive which brought a lot of people into this political party. These people now are interested; how do you do consensus? Do you do consultation down to the grassroots level? Do you do consultation up to various sectors of the political parties? Because you need to do that. Then, how do you now aggregate their opinions? If you meet a particular group, they would have somebody. If you meet another group, they would have a different person. So, you have to meet various groups at different levels, up to the lowest rung of the ladder, from the top to the bottom. How do you now aggregate their preferences? You have to do it; it has to be very scientific. Whatever you do, you must make sure it can stand the test of time. What is that test of time? The election.  What I will recommend is to have primaries. It will put everybody’s mind at rest.

We believe you’ve been consulting with political leaders in the state. Have you consulted with Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, and what did he tell you?

Yes, I’ve consulted with him. There’s no way you’d want to run for governorship, or any serious political office and you don’t meet your leaders. I met him and he said, ‘well, you can go ahead with your ambition; at the right time we’ll roll out the party programmes and so on, but right now we are busy putting up the party structures.’ We agreed that putting up party structures will not stop me from meeting people, going ahead with my plans. That is it.

There are some issues that may shape the primaries-zoning and religion. We want your opinion on these issues, zoning and religion.

I always try not to go into discussing religion, because people can be very emotional about religion and, given what is also going on round the country, it is a very sensitive issue. In this particular part of the country, we don’t discuss religion when it comes to governance. This is the very first time some people are bringing it up. And I can tell you that they are bringing it up because of their own selfish interests. I don’t want to go further, but look at the average family here, you have them muslims, you have them Christians. I have a cousin who is a reverend; my sister is a deaconess; go to Methodist Church, Palm Avenue, that is the church our grandparents attended. That is where they had their burial. So, how will I do anything against a Christian community, for instance? It has never been an issue. Some people have come out to say governance is not about religion. Religion will not put food on your table. You’d have to look at people you believe have integrity, who have what it takes to govern. And I will not also want to go into comparison, as some people would want to do. The moment they succeed in bringing this, and somebody comes on board, and the only credential he’s waving is ‘I am a Christian,’ or ‘I am a muslim,’ his royalty, whether we like it or not, will go to that group, first and foremost. And it will now exert a big influence on his policies, on his roles, on anything he does, because he would now think he’s obliged to that community. That is about religion – like I said, it is very very sensitive, people can be very emotional about it. Now, about zoning. Again, in the history of Lagos – I challenge anybody to prove me wrong – this would be the first time that anybody would sit down and say ‘we’re zoning to this particular person’, and they made a mistake of it. Those people that were doing it made a mistake of saying they were zoning to a particular town. You can only zone to a senatorial district, because that particular town does not constitute the whole district. And when eventually they said, ‘Ok, Epe.’ Its part of the East. We have some other towns, some other divisions, as part of the East. The other divisions rose up and said, ‘no, it’s our turn, because Epe has done it before.’ These are things that are avoidable, if we ourselves had not inadvertently brought it up.

However, in my own case, if they think that would be a deterrent, no. I also have a roof in the East. And also because they’ve made it possible to move from one senatorial district to another, or ven move across – move from a senatorial district, jump over to another senatorial district. So, it’s all well and good. Whatever I am saying is not new to Lagos politics; there are precedents. It is accepted, it has become a norm, so we do it.

You said you’re also from the East, where?

How?

My dad was from Ipakodo. You go to the palace, they will tell you. They will tell you also his role in upgrading the Obaship. My mum is from Ituwolo, and my maternal grand mum is from Ibeshe. So, whatever way you want to push it, I am there. They can’t talk of zoning as a way of stopping anybody. It is also not a provision of the party, which means anybody, even from the Central, can run. It is the party members that would say, ‘no, we prefer this person.’

It depends on who the individual is. You go ahead, just leave party members to their thing, that again would promote democracy. It would make the candidates to talk to people, to talk to people across the other senatorial districts. You just don’t fold your arms and say because somebody has zoned it to your area, that is the end. You also need the other districts. At the end of the day, you’re not going to be governor of Lagos East only; you’re supposed to be the governor of Lagos State.

What are your chances of getting the party ticket, given the possibility that you’re believed to be independent-minded, which is probably one of your undoing?

I’d gone through this root before, and I know what it requires, I know what it takes. And I have also said that it would be foolhardy of anybody to join a political race without doing self-assessment. In Lagos State, anybody from our party throwing his heart in the ring in 2011 would have been foolish, because there was no way he would have defeated the incumbent. In the same way, I think I have done my own assessment, and, with respect to members of my own party, I know their thinking, I know where they are leaning towards. And I know that they are agitating very strongly that this time around, they should be allowed to indicate their preference. With that in place, I stand more than a good chance of clinching the ticket, and finally by the grace of God.

Have you also talked to Governor Fashola?

I said any serious contender will do a far and wide consultation with the leadership of the party, and when you’re talking of the leadership of this political party – I don’t know how you read – by the time you mention a few names, and you’ve not mentioned the governor, you still don’t know where you’re going, you’re joking. He’s a leader of the party, both at the national and state levels. Definitely, he’s one of those I’ve consulted.

What would you do if there is a free and fair primary election and you did not win?

A free and fair primary election? Oh, I’ll queue behind whoever wins. If there was none – we ‘ll leave that to that time. We will act accordingly.

What happens, if you lose in a flawed primary election? There are speculations that you would move out of the APC.

We still need to sell our party; we still need to sell our party to the general populace, which is much more important, and that is why I will not engage in a bitter fight, because at the end of the day we still need to come together to fighter a greater ‘devil’. The second option, where there’s a close margin, where there is free, fair transparent primary election, the people would have spoken and there is nothing you can do; it becomes our party issue. You rally round whoever emerges, and try to work out things together. As for the last scenario, where some people think they can outsmart the others, we’ll act accordingly.

Lagos State All Progressives Congress (APC) governorship aspirant Senator Ganiyu Solomon spoke with reporters in Lagos on his ambition, zoning, the agitation for a Christian governor and the fate of the party in the next general elections. Group Political Editor EMMANUEL OLADESU was there.

What are your expectations about the next governorship poll in Lagos State?

Democracy translates to participatory governance, which means everybody gets involved; you participate. And that differentiates it from a dictatorial government. Dictatorial government is just about a few people, and that was what we had during the military era. There was the accusation that, ‘all these parties, you’re not allowing internal democracy.’ And they kept saying, ‘yes, we’re guaranteeing internal democracy.’

I remember when Chief Akande spoke on this, because he was the first person to give something close to a manifesto, of sorts, before the official launch of the party. And part of what he said, apart from fighting corruption, is that in this our party, we are going to make sure we imbibe the culture of internal democracy. So, anything that will make the party look at another direction, instead of a particular direction, will make it short on internal democracy. So, to me, it’s about perception. Some people may say the body language of the leadership is tilting towards this person; at the end of the day, it’s about perception. I say this because I relate with the leadership; none of the leaders have said, ‘I don’t think you can go,’ or ‘you’re not going,’ or has sent somebody to me to say ‘you’re going back to the senate.’ As far as  I am concerned, any way, the issue of the Senate is closed; I am not going back to the Senate. Maybe, we should start with that:  I am not going back to the Senate; that is settled.

What is your reaction to the endorsement of Mr. Akin Ambode for the governorship election by the Olowo-Eko, Oba Rilwan Akiolu?

Let me say that, in making the pronouncement, Kabiyesi was expressing his preference. He has also expressed his personal opinion. We’re talking of a party now; I don’t know which part or provision of the constitution of the party says a traditional ruler endorses or can endorse. Whatever he says is his personal wish, which is not the same thing as the wish of the generality of the people.

At the end of the day, we have a party structure. Let me also tell you that he made the pronouncement at a time when we had not even concluded putting party structures in place. So, it couldn’t have been in consultation, with who? Is it with the political leadership? Is it with the traditional leadership? We’ve had different opinions since then. We deliberately did not come out to say anything about it because we felt it was a political statement. And what do you do with political statements?

You either respond or you leave it. In this case, we decided to leave it. It has happened a number of times when a traditional ruler in one state would say, ‘this is the person we want.’  At the end of the day, the man would not go anywhere. It has happened several times. I don’t want to cite instances. Even in Lagos, it has happened. In our own case, such statements would not deter us. It will not deter the party man.  What is the weight of a vote? Every vote carries the same weight, regardless of the status of the individual. So, what anybody can do is to go behind his chosen, preferred, aspirant, mobilise people behind him, and provide a level playing field. It is not even for them to do that, that is the provision of the constitution; that is the tenet of democracy – provide a level playing field. And there must be transparency. Whoever wins becomes the party’s candidate, every other person queues behind him. It is not by pronouncement it is not by proclamation;, yes, they were using proclamation years ago to annex, to cede, land , to cede society, to cede country, but not now. That is now out of vogue; this is democracy, you can’t do that. So, we’ll just leave it at that – it is political and we, politicians, take as political, and consign to its proper place.

Consensus or primaries, which would you recommend to your party?

Now, we have a much more bigger party; that means it has also increased our stakeholders. And let me also remind you recently, we had a very aggressive membership mobilisation drive which brought a lot of people into this political party. These people now are interested; how do you do consensus? Do you do consultation down to the grassroots level? Do you do consultation up to various sectors of the political parties? Because you need to do that. Then, how do you now aggregate their opinions? If you meet a particular group, they would have somebody. If you meet another group, they would have a different person. So, you have to meet various groups at different levels, up to the lowest rung of the ladder, from the top to the bottom. How do you now aggregate their preferences? You have to do it; it has to be very scientific. Whatever you do, you must make sure it can stand the test of time. What is that test of time? The election.  What I will recommend is to have primaries. It will put everybody’s mind at rest.

We believe you’ve been consulting with political leaders in the state. Have you consulted with Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, and what did he tell you?

Yes, I’ve consulted with him. There’s no way you’d want to run for governorship, or any serious political office and you don’t meet your leaders. I met him and he said, ‘well, you can go ahead with your ambition; at the right time we’ll roll out the party programmes and so on, but right now we are busy putting up the party structures.’ We agreed that putting up party structures will not stop me from meeting people, going ahead with my plans. That is it.

There are some issues that may shape the primaries-zoning and religion. We want your opinion on these issues, zoning and religion.

I always try not to go into discussing religion, because people can be very emotional about religion and, given what is also going on round the country, it is a very sensitive issue. In this particular part of the country, we don’t discuss religion when it comes to governance. This is the very first time some people are bringing it up. And I can tell you that they are bringing it up because of their own selfish interests. I don’t want to go further, but look at the average family here, you have them muslims, you have them Christians. I have a cousin who is a reverend; my sister is a deaconess; go to Methodist Church, Palm Avenue, that is the church our grandparents attended. That is where they had their burial. So, how will I do anything against a Christian community, for instance? It has never been an issue. Some people have come out to say governance is not about religion. Religion will not put food on your table. You’d have to look at people you believe have integrity, who have what it takes to govern. And I will not also want to go into comparison, as some people would want to do. The moment they succeed in bringing this, and somebody comes on board, and the only credential he’s waving is ‘I am a Christian,’ or ‘I am a muslim,’ his royalty, whether we like it or not, will go to that group, first and foremost. And it will now exert a big influence on his policies, on his roles, on anything he does, because he would now think he’s obliged to that community. That is about religion – like I said, it is very very sensitive, people can be very emotional about it. Now, about zoning. Again, in the history of Lagos – I challenge anybody to prove me wrong – this would be the first time that anybody would sit down and say ‘we’re zoning to this particular person’, and they made a mistake of it. Those people that were doing it made a mistake of saying they were zoning to a particular town. You can only zone to a senatorial district, because that particular town does not constitute the whole district. And when eventually they said, ‘Ok, Epe.’ Its part of the East. We have some other towns, some other divisions, as part of the East. The other divisions rose up and said, ‘no, it’s our turn, because Epe has done it before.’ These are things that are avoidable, if we ourselves had not inadvertently brought it up.

However, in my own case, if they think that would be a deterrent, no. I also have a roof in the East. And also because they’ve made it possible to move from one senatorial district to another, or ven move across – move from a senatorial district, jump over to another senatorial district. So, it’s all well and good. Whatever I am saying is not new to Lagos politics; there are precedents. It is accepted, it has become a norm, so we do it.

You said you’re also from the East, where?

How?

My dad was from Ipakodo. You go to the palace, they will tell you. They will tell you also his role in upgrading the Obaship. My mum is from Ituwolo, and my maternal grand mum is from Ibeshe. So, whatever way you want to push it, I am there. They can’t talk of zoning as a way of stopping anybody. It is also not a provision of the party, which means anybody, even from the Central, can run. It is the party members that would say, ‘no, we prefer this person.’

It depends on who the individual is. You go ahead, just leave party members to their thing, that again would promote democracy. It would make the candidates to talk to people, to talk to people across the other senatorial districts. You just don’t fold your arms and say because somebody has zoned it to your area, that is the end. You also need the other districts. At the end of the day, you’re not going to be governor of Lagos East only; you’re supposed to be the governor of Lagos State.

What are your chances of getting the party ticket, given the possibility that you’re believed to be independent-minded, which is probably one of your undoing?

I’d gone through this root before, and I know what it requires, I know what it takes. And I have also said that it would be foolhardy of anybody to join a political race without doing self-assessment. In Lagos State, anybody from our party throwing his heart in the ring in 2011 would have been foolish, because there was no way he would have defeated the incumbent. In the same way, I think I have done my own assessment, and, with respect to members of my own party, I know their thinking, I know where they are leaning towards. And I know that they are agitating very strongly that this time around, they should be allowed to indicate their preference. With that in place, I stand more than a good chance of clinching the ticket, and finally by the grace of God.

Have you also talked to Governor Fashola?

I said any serious contender will do a far and wide consultation with the leadership of the party, and when you’re talking of the leadership of this political party – I don’t know how you read – by the time you mention a few names, and you’ve not mentioned the governor, you still don’t know where you’re going, you’re joking. He’s a leader of the party, both at the national and state levels. Definitely, he’s one of those I’ve consulted.

What would you do if there is a free and fair primary election and you did not win?

A free and fair primary election? Oh, I’ll queue behind whoever wins. If there was none – we ‘ll leave that to that time. We will act accordingly.

What happens, if you lose in a flawed primary election? There are speculations that you would move out of the APC.

We still need to sell our party; we still need to sell our party to the general populace, which is much more important, and that is why I will not engage in a bitter fight, because at the end of the day we still need to come together to fighter a greater ‘devil’. The second option, where there’s a close margin, where there is free, fair transparent primary election, the people would have spoken and there is nothing you can do; it becomes our party issue. You rally round whoever emerges, and try to work out things together. As for the last scenario, where some people think they can outsmart the others, we’ll act accordingly.