The senior pastor of the Foundation of Truth Assembly (FOTA), Surulere, Lagos, Rev. Yomi Kasali, is a radical with a good cause. He spoke with Sunday Oguntola on the sorry state of the church and why abuses persist, among others. Excerpts:
What will be different with this year’s Giant Killer’s conference?
Giant killer Conference is when we come together as a church to review the purpose of our existence. We thank God for His mercies over us as families and a church. Then, we declare prophetically whatever God has put into our mind for us. Every year, we pick a particular giant that God wants us to deal with. This year, we are talking about the fall of the mighty. God has spoken to me and the church that some of us want to be great and mighty in life but we should look out for what kills mighty men.
Talking about mighty men falling, how come many big ministers are getting enmeshed in adultery and other scandals these days?
I guess it is the way we structure our churches these days. There are too many preachers without fathers. They do not submit to any leadership or authority. They have become ‘alpha’ and ‘omega’ of not just their ministries but also of their lives. When we are not accountable to our members, our peers and fathers, it makes us become immune to rebukes and questioning. That is a direct path to destruction. Every man should know that even though God is using them, they are not infallible. Many have become gods of men and no more men of God.
Our moral values have gone down. I believe that the church, by DNA, should be a moral institution, not an educational institution or business institution. Since we have lost our moral values, it is easy to see our desperation. We have shifted attention from the pulpits to profits, businesses and politics. Some churches run like clubs and business schools. We teach people more about how to make money and not how to make heaven.
Is it wrong for churches to be involved in business ventures?
Yes, it is. I am absolutely and strongly against it. The church was not created for business but soul-winning. The original template was given to us by Jesus Himself. He never had business but soul-winning in mind. We can teach business like I do but the church as an entity or institution should never establish business organisations.
Individuals and church members can run businesses but churches must never get involved. The money we realise from tithes and offering, in my opinion, should never be diverted to business ventures.
So, your church cannot start a bookshop or school?
We would never my brother. Even if we do, it will be to alleviate poverty and help the downtrodden. A business enterprise, by definition in commerce and economics, is set up solely for profit. A church is to serve and invest into lives. If I have a $100million extra in the church purse, I would rather support institutions and assist those offering educational services than set up one.
But how about churches floating private universities?
It is equally wrong my brother. I understand every church wants to have at least one these days to have their share of the cake and keep members. But isn’t that why the ASUU strike will go on? Our fathers in the Lord should have been able to speak to government officials to open our public schools but they won’t do that because their schools benefit more from the strikes. The more public schools strike, the more enrolment they get. They will even be praying that the strikes do not end. That way, it is now about sectional and not national interests. We should have been mediating between ASUU and government officials but we can’t because we have vested interests.
It is painful because how many people can attend our private universities. There are thousands of students out of schools and we have them in our churches too.
But these universities are considered mission schools
It will be wrong to call them mission universities. They are not. Let’s be very clear about that. Mission is never profit-oriented. These private universities are set up for profits. What we always do is to look at the churches behind them and conclude they are mission-minded. Churches can truly be behind them but they are profit organisations.
But they say they make the profits to plow them back to mission projects
I don’t believe that because it just doesn’t make sense. I will say to myself why do I need to invest N10billion into a private university to make N1billion and then take that to missions? If I am really after missions, why not invest the N10billion at a go into missions since that is my intention from the word go?
The missionary schools that we had in the 60s and 70s were purely mission-oriented. They spent monies to educate the critical mass. But how many attend the private universities we set up today? They are for the upper middle class and not for the critical mass.
You have been talking about the terrible state of the church for years. Do you sometimes feel like you are talking to the air?
I feel like that absolutely many times. Like Elijah, I feel I am the odd one out there and feel that I should quit. But you can’t, that is what you are called to do. God told Obadiah to tell Elijah that He has 70 other prophets hiding in caves that have not bowed to Baal. So sometimes, I know there are other disenchanted prophets, intimidated and hiding in caves like me. We need to come together and form progressive, conservative prophets that can speak louder on an alliance.
We need new leaders that have not joined the bandwagon and the recklessness in the ministry. I am trusting God He will bring us together to challenge the status quo and return the church to her rightful places.
The image of the church keeps plummeting. How can we reverse this trend?
I believe that leadership is the answer. We need courageous leadership within the church. I pray that politicians will not come and correct us. At the rate we are going, we might have a Pharaoh who will not know Joseph within the next decade. We keep thinking it can’t happen but it will happen in fulfillment of the scriptures. If we don’t judge ourselves, then unbelievers will judge us. Our image keeps plummeting on a daily basis and people do not believe in us anymore. We are planning for our convention now and spending some good money to buy equipment and beautify our auditorium. We asked sellers to get us the equipment to the church and then we pay immediately but they have been refusing. They say they don’t trust churches any more. They want us to pay first before they supply. It is as bad as that.
So, we need courageous church leadership to stem the tide. Then, our members must become aware and demand accountability. Our members are too naïve and just want churches where they will be pampered. It’s time for people to start protesting and walking out of churches where justice and righteousness are not preached and demonstrated. We have church leaders but no moral leaders. That is why we do not speak to political leadership. We cover up our own shortcomings and just look away.
Is it possible to hold church leaders to accountability in a culture where any scrutiny or questioning is condemned as an act of rebellion?
That is the question I cannot really answer because each church has bye-laws. In our church, we have a deaconate board that can ask me any questions. I grow up in the Foursquare that has serious accountability culture. So, I give financial reports and everything to the board here.
I feel and know I am accountable to them. Any member that goes to any church where he cannot ask questions should walk away. Accountability is a right they must insist on.
We also get to hear a lot of ‘Touch not my anointed and do my prophet no harm’ these days. What’s your position on this?
That is a very dangerous scripture. Every Christian is anointed as long as there is a covenant relationship. Pragmatically, I agree we should not speak ill of any man, including men of God. As a church member, I have the right to talk to my pastor. If he cannot answer you, then take a leave.
I believe that scripture should not be used to justify abuses and reckless living among church leaders. I believe the anointed should also not touch God’s people. It should also work the other way round.
Don’t you think the fact that we cannot question church leadership further makes it impossible to do the same with political leaders?
I think so. I think that there is an alliance of the princes and priests in Nigeria. Our religious and political leaders are collaborating against the masses. The way God works is to have them checkmate themselves. But when they align, it can be tough for the people. In our nation, politicians approach religious leaders and ask them to help shut the masses for a gain. The masses are being abused on both sides.
If people demand accountability from church leaders, they in turn can check politicians. And trust politicians they can say ‘since you are doing this, we’d also bring out your dossiers. You once built churches without approvals; you got waivers; you got free lands and C of O’. That is what will make a healthy nation. Our people don’t know the power they have. If they choose to blacklist some churches by leaving, the leaders will sit up.
You talked about churches helping the poor. How much of that have you done?
We have done some. Every year, we spend millions to grade Dauda Imam Street. We run a hospital where we offer free treatment and medications to anybody. We pay the doctors and nurses without charging patients a dime. We have over 4,400 patients as at the last time I checked.
We still do the cloth-the-naked programme that we do every year. We feed the poor and do other projects without running any business venture.
