Former Yobe State first lady and ex-Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Hajia Khadijah Bukar Abba, believes that the emergence of the leadership of the 9th Assembly should be based on fairness and justice, with every geo-political zone represented in it. But more importantly, the fourth –time Rep-elect believes that President Muhammadu Buhari should intervene in the emergence of the leadership of the forthcoming parliament to ensure orderliness. The daughter of the late elder statesman, Alhaji Waziri Ibrahim, and granddaughter of the first governor of Northern Region, Kashim Ibrahim, bares her mind, in this interview with VINCENT IKUOMOLA and DELE ANOFI. Excerpts:
GOING to the 9th National Assembly, what are your expectations?
Well, going to the 9th Assembly, I think my expectations will be that the executive and the legislature should work hand in hand in order to make our country progress. What we saw basically in the 8th Assembly was a lot of misunderstanding between the executive and the legislature. Today, we have the ruling party (APC) in the majority in both houses. So, we are expecting to see a better understanding of things between the executive and the legislature.
Of course, we all have to think that we are not there as individuals in ourselves; we are there to serve a certain sector or segment of our society. We are there to serve the constituents who voted us into office. We must not let them down by bringing selfish attitude to the 9th Assembly. We should be able to remember them in all our undertakings and consider the fact that it is not just an individual but the whole constituency that voted us in. These are the things I am expecting in the 9th Assembly.
I also take into consideration the current issues that are troubling the country, that is, lack of security, which I must admit, coming from the executive, I have seen has improved tremendously compared to when we came in four years ago, especially from the part of the country that I come from, which is the North East, Yobe State. One could not even wander through the streets after 6 o’ clock because there was a 6pm to 6am curfew. But now, it has been extended to 10 o’ clock; it is now 10pm to 6am. So, you can imagine the improvement of security there. But then, we still need to put hands on the deck. Both the executive and the legislature need to cooperate in order to see how the issue of security can be improved on.
So, what I am basically saying is that during the last dispensation, there were a lot of towns and villages occupied by insurgents. Now, the villages have been reclaimed and the insurgents have been beaten back to the forest, except for one or two bombing incidents here and there, which the military and other security agencies are working very hard to contain. So, what I am expecting to see is not mini scruples between the executive and the legislature. I think we should put selfish interests aside and work together to see that our nation progresses.
Secondly, we should not consider religion as a factor. We should disregard any sense of belonging to any religious group. We should consider our country first because our country is hugely diverse in culture, religion and any aspect of society you are thinking about. It is a very complex country, and we must not or should not be seen any different. We should not allow people to take advantage of the crack in the wall. We must ensure there is no crack so that lizards and other reptiles can enter and spoil our relationship between the different factions, religions, parties, cultures and so on.
Thirdly, we must understand that everybody has the right to belong to any party of their choice. That is the beauty of democracy. Democracy is not supposed to be seen as one enemy versus another enemy; it should be seen as healthy criticism coming from one another. It should be seen as two or more groups coming and working together to sustain our country in order to make the country progress. During the time of our forefathers, the people that formed the nation and the people that consolidated after the independence came out to show to us that they were indeed together, and there were no cultural, religious and tribal differences. We were one Nigeria then.
Do you fear that the mistake made by your party in the emergence of the outgoing leadership of the National Assembly could be repeated in the 9th Assembly despite the fact that you are in a comfortable majority in both chambers?
I know zoning will be a factor. If you look at it from the number one citizen of this country, President Muhammadu Buhari, who is from the Northwest, and then you take his deputy, Prof. Yemi Osinajo, from the Southwest, the third and fourth have to come from the other zones. Now, what would be the difference between the 8th Assembly and the 9th Assembly is that there was a coalition in the 8th Senate where the PDP held the Deputy Senate President, while the Senate President was held by APC. Now, that made it difficult for consensus at any given opportunity. Anytime there was a bill or a motion, it was highly debated because of the division in the seniority setup of the Senate and also because, I’m sorry to say, we (APC) were not really consolidated.
APC had more members, but it was a bit divided within itself because of the fact that we had PDP in the minority come in and was also part of the leadership as the Deputy Senate President. So, any time, maybe a bill came from the executive, the minority would stop it going further because the Deputy Senate President was from the opposition party. This time around, two-thirds of the members are from the APC; so we are ready. And obviously, whatever mistakes were made in the past, we will now have to correct them. Mistakes have been made and I’m sure these same mistakes will not happen again, because we need the legislature to make the nation move. The legislature needs the executive like they need the judiciary, because it’s the three arms of government that make up the democracy in our nation. So these three arms of government need to work together to ensure that there is a smooth running of our nation.
In what way do you think the party can intervene in the election of the leadership of the National Assembly, considering the fact that such intervention did not really turn out well in 2015?
Well, in any election of leadership, I think the members should have the right to vote who they want as their leaders. Of course, the party can give ideas. They can suggest that we feel that so and so should be zoned to this area or that area. The party can make up, but they cannot choose the individual that will run the parliament, because it is a choice that should be made by members within the chambers, and this has been the tradition. The likely candidates emerge, but the voting is done by the members. So, if the party has ideas, they can give ideas as to zoning, just to be fair. Since we are a hugely diverse country, the number one, two, three and four people should not be from the same zone; they should come from different zones so as to satisfy the other zones, and obviously, there are other appointments that will come and that will fill whatever gap there is for the others, since we have six geopolitical zones. And if the leadership takes four zones, then other sectors of government have zones to be filled, spaces to be filled for other zones to be satisfied. So I think the stakeholders will have to sit down, have a big decision making process so as to satisfy and appease the general populace and also the constituents, the members of parliament and all the stakeholders concerned.
It is argued in some quarters that the legislature being a separate arm of government, why should the emergence of the President and his deputy be a yardstick for determining who gets what in the legislature?
Everybody has their own right to think the way they want to think. But in my view, I think to be fair, as a nation, the formula that I suggested might be a more effective way out. It might be fairer than not taking the Presidency into consideration. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion though, and in my opinion, this is what I think would engender fairness. But that is just the way I am thinking. I don’t know if it could be the solution. But if I was to be given an opportunity to give my own word of advice, I’d say this is how it should be.
President Buhari said he is for everybody that was why he didn’t actually intervene in what happened in 2015, and that led to the issues we have had in the National Assembly since then. What do you think the President should do this time around?
Well, like I said, the President, this time around, I think he should consult the stakeholders and the party. Since we are in the majority, we have the right to decide on who we want as our leaders, and he can suggest to the members of parliament on those we think are the right people for those seats. So it is a decision that the President will take with the people he chooses to take the decision with, and come to a conclusion whereby the mistake of the 8th Assembly will not be repeated. So this is entirely above me. I would only just say that if I am called upon to give my word of advice, I’ll do so. But I think that in order to have orderliness in the parliament, the President needs to intervene in decision making.
Are you looking at the possibility of a female Speaker this time around? Remember that the last female Speaker’s time was turbulent…
Well, basically, I am not saying that a female Speaker should not be chosen. But the fact remains that it is the duty of the parliamentarians to choose a male or a female to represent them as Speaker. It is not an easy job. It is a herculean task which needs a wealth of experience, cognate knowledge and also a detribalised person who people believe in to deliver. It must be someone who people believe will work effectively with their colleagues, who is not arrogant, who is forthright and welcoming and people feel very comfortable with. I mean a Speaker should not be someone up there who the other colleagues cannot relate with. It should be somebody that colleagues can relate with. Such a person must also be ready to work with the executive and intervene where he feels that there is some kind of division within the parliament and try to keep sanity and stabilize issues. I think that is the kind of person we need as a Speaker whether it is a woman or a man.
Talking of experience, this is your fourth return to the House, with huge experience from the executive arm as well. If your people should say they want you as the next Speaker, what would be your response?
First of all, I was Commissioner for Transport and Energy. And then I was a wife of a governor. And then I was a member of the House of Representatives. And during my third tenure, I was appointed the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs. So now, I’ve been re-elected for the fourth time by my people. And this is a calling from my people. I did not impose myself on them; they wanted me to come and represent them over again. So this is my fourth coming, not because I imposed myself, but because the people wanted me to come and represent them.
Now, obviously, having had experience with the executive, I would definitely know how to relate with the legislature. Having had experience with the executive and being part of the legislature, I’d have the experience of dealing with the two arms of government and know where and how to handle issues relating to those two arms. So we must not see them as enemies but friends in progress, in order to see that they work together, and, of course, with the third arm of government, which is the judiciary. We operate a government of separation of powers, which means the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. So, for there to be progress in this country, those three arms of government need to work together effectively. On the aspect of wanting to become the Speaker of the House of Representatives, like I mentioned earlier, it is entirely up to the members of the House to choose the leaders first. Secondly, gender factor needs to come in, because as a woman, I feel that we are not fairly or squarely represented in any aspect of governance. In the elective positions, we only have barely 10 or 11 or 12 members that are female out of 360 members. And when it comes to voting, youths and women, especially women, are the highest voters in this country. So, I mean having a representation of a woman at a high position would be seen in the outside world as positive; that Nigeria has moved ahead in the advancement of its society and not any other sentimental issue attached to it, like ‘okay, since they’re all men, let’s include women.’ No.
A woman’s position is now associated with development. Giving a woman a major position in any country, like you can see Nancy Pelosi is in the US, Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain, Angela Merkel in Germany, these are all powerful nations in the world with their key institutions headed by women. So, we must be given a chance to also participate. We must not be seen as enemies of progress, we must be seen as friends of progress, we must be seen as a gender that wants to see the advancement not only of women, but women and men. After all, we look after our husbands. We look after our sons, our grandfathers, our uncles, our cousins, nephews, all male, you know. So women should not be seen as if they come in, they’ll just protect the interests of gender. That is a wrong conception. It is just that the woman should be given a chance also to participate in leadership. That is basically what I am saying. It could be the Speaker. It could be any other form of leadership. But then women should be given a chance to participate in the leadership of the Parliament.
How do you hope to reign in your colleagues in the male-dominated House should you become the Speaker of the 9th House?
In the first instance, if we can take male chauvinism out of our minds, I think a lot of things will work out positively for women in this country, because I feel that women are always seen as second to men. I think we must not be taken as enemies of progress, like I said. We should be taken as friends of progress. And if there was once a female Speaker and she was impeached, it doesn’t mean that the buck should stop there; it should also mean that women must continue to strive for leadership positions. I mean just sitting back and saying, ‘Okay, since there was once a Female Speaker, namely Madame Patricia Ete, then no woman should attempt anymore,’ that is a wrong conception. So, whatever the situation, we must be seen to also have the guts and willpower to see to it that we actually try and contest in such leadership elections, if there’s going to be one, in order to see how far we’ll get. It will make our women folk proud that indeed a woman tried and there was also a woman who participated in the process of choosing the leaders of both houses.