Senior Pastor of The Stone Church Ibadan, Rev Alex Adegboye, is a chartered architect. He spoke with Sunday Oguntola on the raging tithing debate and sundry issues ahead of the 25th anniversary of the church. Excerpts:
How has it been running the church for over 25 years?
It has been very exciting and of course challenging at the same time because the devil will not allow you to have a free ride. So we have had many challenges here and there but it’s been exciting.
Did you envisage the church will come this far when you were starting off?
To be honest with you, I wasn’t thinking much when we started. I didn’t know the full extent of the assignment and challenges involved. Maybe if I knew, I wouldn’t start because to start a church or ministry from the scratch is not a boy’s play.
It challenged everything within me. My spirit, soul, body and everything was challenged but I didn’t consider anything then to be honest. I just plunged on because it was ground-breaking. Criticisms came, people had views of why we were doing what we were doing especially for me since I said I will never run a church.
You did?
Yes, as a businessman and professional, I was involved in Full Gospel Businessmen Fellowship. People didn’t trust that the Full Gospel fellowship will not turn into a church. But it is an international organisation with a cast mandate. Subsequently, whatever was going to come out of it will have to follow what has been set.
So, we used to tell them it would never be a church. I also thought I will never start a fellowship. But when I had to start, I thought it was the devil that was speaking to me. I was comfortable in the practice and the Baptist Church where I was a deacon. I knew I would have to leave my practice one day once I started.
What has been the toughest challenge in the church so far?
The toughest challenge, I think, came in 2003 when we were 10. I was attacked by armed robbers and I had to go abroad for treatment, leaving the church behind. I am sure if I had died at that time, it would have been the end of the church.
The church I met when I came back two years after was a caricature of what I left behind. Apart from the fact that many people had left, including the leaders I left behind, I realised the fact that I met something on the ground was even a miracle.
The church would have disappeared literally. I think that was the biggest challenge we ever had. Apart from that, we have had normal challenges of finances, people leaving, people trying to change what we do to popular fads and all that. These are normal with every church and organisation.
Some people will claim God sent them to be part of the church but they will begin to suggest things that they know you will not do.
Two years after you came back, people still left. Did that leave you with heartbreaks?
The people who left said God told them to leave. I can of kind believe them because most of them were young men who grew up in my hands and had become successful. Then, they had been here for about 14 hours and felt their works had ended here and they needed to go somewhere else to continue serving God.
Of course, I felt betrayed. I still talk about it till date. When God had used you to raise people and they leave, you felt betrayed. But I tell people today I am glad they left. All the things we have done since they left proved God kind of double up our operations and impact.
Most of the things we have now, we didn’t when they were here. So a lot more has happened than the past 15 years. So, it was good that they left. Maybe I should let you know that the entire leadership team left…
… All of them left?
One of them left before I came back. Then, the remaining waited for me to return before they left.
In fact, all of them left except one young man. Each time I came to church then, I would be told somebody had left. I believe it was designed to break my spirit. I had just suffered a physical attack that I just recovered from. Then, they started leaving too but I was so strong.
Before I came back from England, I had settled on whether I should stay back there or come back because my wife and children are all Britons by birth. I am the only Nigerian among them. So, I settled it in my mind that I have to come back. I was very strong when I came. I just continued to preach and teach. I didn’t go anywhere else to preach. Nobody wanted me to preach for them anyway because when you suffer misfortunes, people just want to avoid you…
… There was even rumour in the city of Ibadan that you probably had something to do with the robbers.
I heard all kinds of rumour myself. I felt betrayed not only by my church people but also some ministers in town. I remember one pastor I had preached for many times. He announced on his pulpit I had been attacked by robbers. Immediately, the service closed the members rushed to my hospital ward in University College Hospital (UCH) to offer me comfort.
But the man didn’t show up. I was in UCH for three months. He never for once showed up. After I came back, some doctors in the church had their Nigerian Medical Association (NMA) anniversary in the church.
Then he asked for their churches and one said he was from Stone Church. Then he asked, ‘how is Pastor Alex? I heard he can never walk away’. Those kinds of things can break one but I was strong. We got out of it and God increased us greatly.
What’s the major concern for your church and the body of Christ?
For the church, it would be being sure that people are really grounded in the word, which is our main emphasis. When I travelled, I was very surprised by the kind of people they were inviting to preach. For me, I only invite those who are word-based ministers. The emphasis might be different but operations and manifestations must be word-based. But they were inviting people who will preach without opening the scriptures. So, I was worried they were listening well to my preaching and sermons.
I also found out that people can easily be swayed by money when we they are not sure of the source. It’s a Nigerian problem that is also very strong in the church. So, I try to teach the word of God must be our compass.
When I came back, I remember they invited an old friend, a Bishop. He had this chain around his neck and sat with me. We were drinking water and took the bottle of water I gave him that God told him whoever he poured the water to and gives N200, 000 will never be poor again.
I was right there on the altar. My people started falling on themselves. They ran out to give money. The same people I had been begging to give us money for convention but wouldn’t budge. They were falling over themselves and I was amazed. He reduced it to N100, 000 and they still came.
He raised millions that day. I was just there, simply dazed. I thought nobody will respond to that antic. So, I have always been bothered on people staying on the word to produce everything. Through the word, favour, miracles, breakthrough and others will come.
Is the body of Christ doing enough to pass on the torch?
If we are passing on anything at all, it is the wrong thing. I hear testimonies like ‘Daddy prayed for me and I got my miracles.’ Those testimonies upset some of us. What if daddy is not here again? Can’t you access God on your own? Daddy will not always be here. The only one that will be there is Jesus. I tell my people this everything.
But they still come to say ‘Daddy did this and this happened’. I tell them to know God on their own. That is the basic of our faith. They must access God on their own, pray to Him themselves. When I became a Christian, I was taught the four fundamentals: read your bible every day, pray every day, witness every day and be in church every week.
So, you are afraid these fundamentals have been lost?
I am not afraid but I know they are no more there. A lot of people come every day with cars, asking for prayers. They want to tap from the anointing. I start by telling them about salvation and knowing the Lord. They claim they attend churches but do not know the Lord.
So, I wonder what they hear in those churches. Many people want to turn pastors to diviners and prayer contractors. Some try to use me like that but they cannot. I should feel good about it but those things upset me. I am not a spiritual consultant or prayer contractor. I simply point people to God and Jesus.
What perspectives do you have on the raging tithing debate?
I believe that Christians must pay tithes. I believe God’s prosperity system is built around it. God demands for it, He has sanctified it. I see it all over the scriptures. The number 10 is also significant in the bible: 10 commandments, 10 virgins, 10 plague, 10 lepers, 10 days after resurrection and so on.
I believe the tithe is a test. When God says something belongs to Him, He tests you. So, it is a sacrosanct law that Christians must obey.
But what about some pastors misappropriating it?
That is there but it does not exonerate those who don’t pay tithe. You are to obey what God says and leave Him to judge those who misappropriate it. However, if you don’t trust a pastor to receive your tithes, go to another church whose pastor you can trust.
Where is the storehouse then? Must Christians pay tithes necessarily in local churches alone?
I believe it must be paid in the local church. That is where you are being fed. For the sake of the sanctity of that commandment, it must be there. If you pay to anywhere else, it must be offering.
It has to be 10 percent? Nothing less?
I believe it must be. It is sacrosanct. It can’t be anything less.
What if someone is in dire need and all I have is my tithe. Can I give it to the person?
You see you can create a hypothetical situation to justify what you want to do. You can give it if God allows you but you cannot teach it. It must be circumstantial not habitual. What we can teach is what the bible says. There will always be situations everywhere. So, you don’t give just to fix situations in disobedience to God.
Are you insisting on payment of tithes because it is the support system of the church?
It is not the support system of the church. God does not need tithes to do anything. When He asks us to pay, it is for our benefits, not His. God will finance His works without tithes. It is to bless us if we obey.
Those who think they are hurting the church by not paying tithes are wrong. The church will stand with or without the tithes.
Do you agree with a popular preacher that those who don’t pay tithes will not make heaven?
I don’t know about that. It is about an economic system, not making heaven. I don’t think that not paying will make people miss heaven.
What is unique about the forthcoming convention?
We are having the youth convention for the first time this year. Then we are launching The Stone Technical College also known as Word Alive Vocational Centre. We believe there is a shortage of skilled manpower in carpentry, plumbing, barbing, fashion designing, electrical works and so on.
