When was the idea of Prisonners’ Right Advocacy Initiative (PRAI) conceived and why?
PRAI was conceived when I was a youth corps member in Abia State. I remembered when I was in the university, we visited prisons often and since then, I had promised to look into the plight of prisoners and many innocent people languishing in prison and promised myself and God that when I am through with the university, we would assist them. We even promised some of the inmates that we are going to assist them when we are through.
When I served in Abia State, immediately after my call, I assisted a lot of prisoners there. For this, I won the best corper award for the state and on finishing youth service, I thought it would be good to continue the good work as it is, hence the floating of PRAI. We started doing our work at the Kirikiri Maximum Prison.
Who motivated you into floating the NGO ?
When I was in Abia State in 2009/2010, there was this boy called Chidi. I can’t remember his surname again, who was in prison for nine years awaiting trial. He was arrested on his way from a football match and dumped in the prison. While there, because of his incarceration, his dad died, his mother died and he almost lost his sight until we visited and got him out. That was one peculiar case that really motivated me. And also the first set of inmates that I filed fundamental rights application for at the Kirikiri Maximum Prison. The inmates had spent upwards of 13 years awaiting trial. One of them even developed a kidney disease; one was attacked by some thugs. He was stabbed and with the injury, he was kept in prison unattended. He was there for six years. These stories I am telling you, for most of the inmates, they lost their families while there. Because of their problem, some of them developed hypertension probabaly because of thinking and they died. These are some of the cases that motivated me at the earlier stage.
How many ATs have earned freedom through the initiative?
We have had over a 100 in that category and that was from 2011 to date and they are mainly from Kirikiri Maximum Prison. I remembered that when the CJ, Justice Phillips came on board, that was the time we heard written on behalf of about 131 prison inmates, out of which we later filed matter for 106. I think we had written in that letter the age and names of the inmates and others in prison across Lagos State. I think this motivated the AG to further have discussion with the CJ. You would remember that about 233 inmates were released and they were largely from the list we forwarded to the AG.
So, how would you describe the journey so far?
It has been fulfilling and it has also been very hard because we had done this from my pocket, from the meagre amount I earned from the practice in the law firm I work with. It has been more of a personal effort up to date. But we have not been deterred by the fact that we don’t have funds or foreign sponsorship. This is our own way of giving back to the society and we definitey believe that there is a reward for everything one does even when we do not know that they were watching us. At the IBA conference, there is this award for Pro Bono lawyers. Though I did not win, there are a lot of applications, but from feelers we got from the IBA, particularly, Channels Television journalist who posted on her Twitter page, I was recognised, in fact, the only Nigerian recognised for this particlar award. A lot of people forwarded applications but they recognised only a few. Our application was qualitative enough to be so recognised. That was fulfilling. The person who won it has been at it for 12 years. I have just been at it for two years. I know that as we move on, we would get recognition by the grace of God and that is fulfilling.
Does it ever occurred to you that some of these people whose cases you take up might become a problem to the society?
We are not judging. Our problem is not in their incarceration, so to speak, if it had been done the right way. There is no justification for keeping someone in prison longer than is necessary. He should be tried and tried appropriately. There is no reason for keeping an underage in prison, for instance. That is one of the issues we are facing. They have no business in the prison. They are to be in correctional centres, which I am not sure are adequate enough. If the law says they should not be there, then they should not be there. Because what we have done is to follow the law strictly. One of the cases we are handling is that of those people allegedly killed by the police from Makinde Station in Oshodi. The bottom line is not whether they are guilty or not. What we are advocating is that they have a right, which is very fundamental. And we try in our little way to rehabilitate them within our means, even if we feel that they have been unjustly kept there, even if they are criminals. Because we are not the courts and trial has not been done to determine that.
Aside from handling the problem of awaiting trials, what other matters do you take?
I am a lawyer. I practise and I do general matters. I am also an arbitrator and I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators and practise law – labour laws, medical laws, civil and criminal laws. So, I do general matters. I am also involved in sports. I have another NGO trying to develop future champions. We have Q-Madi Martial Arts Development Initiative and we have done a lot and all of my boys will be going for junior Olympics by the grace of God.
Recently, a retired Justice of the Supreme Court suggested that we expunge issue of jurisdiction from our statute books to fast-track quick dispensation of matters in court. What is your position on this?
I do not support that it should be totally expunged from our laws because there are some cases in which it might be justified. It is not in all cases that jurisdiction might be seen as frivolous because the court should have the power of what it wants to do. So, I am not in support of it. But it must be used rarely.
What is your perception of corruption in the judiciary?
Well, I have not done any matter which I suspect that a judge have been biased. But I have heard about it. We have done cases that were decided on their merit. And we have done others not so decided, but I believe that there is corruption in the judiciary. I believe that thete should be full steps taken against corrupt judges. May be when one or two or three are sent to prison, others would sit up. And I think the issue of corruption should be tackled from the home to the top. So, if parents did not cut corners for their children to gain promotion to the next class, for instance, these are some of the simplest cases of corruption, I think the society would be better for it. Let us start from the lowest ebb up to the top echelon- the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. I think the corruption in the judiciary mirrored what is happening in the society. Almost all facets of the society is corrupt. The only reason we focus on the judiciary is because the judiciary is the last arbiter and if they are corrupt then you can be sure that there won’t be any light at the end of our tunnel.
As somebody conversant with the law, what advise will you give the Senator Okurounmu-led committee on National Dialogue?
First and foremost is the issue of the environment. I do not envisage a situation where Nigerians would be called upon to come and dialogue. I don’t know how realistic this can be. I cannt imagine the venue that would use for such. The first issue should be on the criteria for the selection of delegates because it must be the mirror of the lowest of the low. Those who feel the pinch must be represented. Those are my minute duties about the area of delegation. And I think the committee should just ensure that they are open minded. I also support the call that that there should be no limit; that there should be no agenda setting. Let everybody come there and pour out their minds and hopefully, we would get a good result this time around. When most committee are set up, I am most times pessimistic about the result, espcially by this government. But let us see the requirements. I doubt if it will solve our problems, but let’s see give it a trial. Let’s see, may be, this will solve our problem. I don’t think so, but let’s see how far it goes because the problem of this country is mainly that of corruption and I don’t see this conference as solving the problem of corruption.
Why law? Would you have preferred another profession?
Well, when I was growing up, I didn’t know any other profession as I knew law because my dad is a lawyer. I wanted to become a lawyer because he was a lawyer. So, I grew up finding myself in law. Having come into law, aiding people, seeing people progressing every day, solving the problems of the downtrodden and putting smiles on their faces has made me love law all the more.
So has it been practising in the same chamber with your father?
It is just like practising anywhere. I don’t see much advantage in it. It is more or less like being at home. May be, that would give you some leverage to also do some things and I am speaking to my father I have known over the years. So I know how to get him to accede to my request. May be, that is just all about it.
So, when were you called to the bar?
I was called to the bar in 2009. So, I am about five years in practice.
Since you started practice, what has been the challenges?
The challenges majorly is the delay in courts, frequent adjournments, cases taking years in court. These have been the major challenges.
So, what do you see as the way out of this?
May be as it was said at the stakeholders forum during the begining of the new legal year that lawyers should be informed when the court is not sitting and it must be for just cause, especially when it has to do with criminal matters. I am presently handling a criminal matter where the earliest adjournment you have is two to three months and this person has been in prison since the year 2000. We woke up the Ministry of Justice by filing a fundamental right application and he was charged to court last year. Since he was charged to court, we have heard adjournments upon adjournments and the case is yet to be concluded. I think the judiciary should be alive to its duty. There must be adequate monitoring. Where a case stays longer than is necessary, the judge should be queried.
What is your most memorable experience?
Sincerely, I can’t pinpoint any because I had so many and we have so many works in progress. We have won so many cases. So, I can’t think of any particular moment that is more memorable than the other. But any time I win a case, I am happy.
And when you lose?
Unfortunately, I am yet to lose any. And even if I lose, the world goes on as if we had a good a case and won it.
Your first day in court, was it with your father or you went alone?
My first day in court was in Abia State while I was serving as a youth corps member. There was nothing special about it because the way we were trained in the law school, I was very thorough and we were already used to the system. When I led my team to the court, the magistrate who presided said we did practically well even better than lawyers who practise outside. We started the new curriculum at the law school and we were well- groomed. So, I didn’t see it as anything special.
Would you support those advocating a review of the Law School curriculum?
I do not see anybody who attended the Law School and who participated fully in its activities the way we did when the new curriculum started and who was in Lagos campus, may be in other campuses, I do not see anybody who attended Lagos campus saying he was not well groomed or asking for a drastic change in the curriculum of the law school. The curriculum that we met was African and was the best.
