Presiding Bishop of The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM), Dr. Mike Okonkwo, speaks with Victor Oluwasegun. In this interview, the former President of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) spoke on the role of the Church in nation building, Igbo Presidency and other national issues. Excerpts
WHAT is your perception of the Church’s role in nation building?
The church is the salt of the earth and light of the world. In other words, we’re supposed to be the role model for the society, that’s our position. This is because, if the church gets it right, definitely the nation will be positively affected. The truth of the matter is many people who subscribe to the church have not sat down to be taught what their role should be. Quite a number of people think that because I go to church and I’m answering a Christian name, I’m a Christian. That’s not true. The first port of call to be a Christian is to subscribe to Christ as your saviour and your lord. Until you personally make that commitment, you can go to church all your entire life and might still not be a Christian . And the second category of people are those that have subscribed to the person of Christ and have refused to sit down and be taught to know how they’ll live the new life. Now this new life I have, how do I live it? Just like a woman who has a baby, the baby has to be fed, you have to train up the baby to be responsible, that’s the same way the life of Christ is. There are many who go to church and are excited about the drama and spectacle but have not really sat down to say okay, where is that Christ manifesting in my own life. That’s some of the problem. That’s why society does not seem to fulfill the impact of Christianity in this country. And so, there are quite a lot of issues we can attribute to it.
As we approach 2019, are you surprised at the manner of turbulence in the political space?
No, I’m not surprised and we’ll still see more before the election, if there will be any. We will still see more of the nonsense going on in the polity. I mean, for me, I feel abused; I feel insulted by the politicians. I feel that they’re raping Nigerians. You move from this party to this one and tomorrow to another one. The same people, recycling the same band of people and you’re rubbing it in the face of Nigerians. I feel insulted as far as I’m concerned and I believe that through it all, God is up to something concerning this country. And His plans concerning Nigeria will be fulfilled no matter what anyone thinks. He will continue to navigate, in every bad situation, God knows how to bring out the good. At the end of these whole things that we’re seeing, you will see what the good God will bring out.
There was a recent report where the US Congress cited Nigeria as one of the most dangerous places on earth to be a Christian. Do you agree with that?
Of course; how else would you say it with all the killings that are going on in the country? You won’t just sit down and begin to clap your hands and say everything is well. That’s the reason. They must have checked their indices to come up with such statement. Events of the recent past have shown that there is something fundamentally wrong that we cannot ignore.
Do you believe that the farmers/ herders crisis can be resolved by sitting down at the table?
There’s nothing wrong in sitting and interrogating the issue. But in my own submission and personal analysis of the herdsman/farmers crisis, I still think that we are yet to get the true picture of what is going on. People are not telling us the truth. I don’t believe Nigeria’s security is not strong enough to fish out those perpetrating this evil. We may not be as sophisticated as the Western world, but I still believe we have what it takes as Nigerians. With the level of corruption in Nigeria, what if this issue is allowed to drag on so that we keep on asking for money for security? Have we thought along that line? Because where are people getting all the billions they’re getting? When somebody is caught, you now see they’ve stored billions somewhere- where did he get it from? What makes you think that probably the army is not making money; the top brass army and all these security people? They know that government will want peace, stability, and security in the country. The only way is to make it look as if the thing will never end. Then, they will stretch hands and begin to call for more money. I’m just thinking. Maybe I think differently from other people because if you catch one of them now and go and search his house, you will be shocked again at the type of money you’ll see. Where did you get it, if not that you’ve cornered money somewhere? I’ve said that to say here are several issues involved in this thing.
Vice President Osinbajo has blamed clerics for not supporting President Muhammadu Buhari’s fight against corruption, what’s you take?
He must have a reason why he said what he said. I don’t want to speak for him, probably there’s something he knows that I don’t. He said it when he was serving as the Acting President, so he has all the security issues on his table. If he says so as a Pastor, not just a nominal Pastor, a spirit filled, born- again Pastor; if the Acting President said that, then, there must be some iota of truth in it that the Church has not played the role it should play.”
Igbos are angling for presidency. Do you believe in an Igbo presidency in 2023?
I’m an Igbo man and as far as I’m concerned, I don’t believe in Igbos looking for presidency. The Igbos should shut their doors and develop the Southeast. We are fighting for the wrong things. As far as I am concerned, this nation needs restructuring. The reason everyone is jostling for presidency is because of the juicy largesse that comes from there. Let every person go to his own region and develop it. Make the center less attractive. Unbundle this center. Let people go, if you have anything to offer, go to your region and get it done. For me, I am not an advocate of Igbo presidency. No doubt, Igbos have been marginalised. I’m not taking that out. They have been deprived, but my point is; let’s not use that as bait, as if we’re doing the Igbos a favor. We are all Nigerians. Everyone is entitled to rule this country. That was my joy when Jonathan became president of this country. I was excited in the sense that for once, let it be said that a minority can rule this country. In fact, I was happy that he came on board. Unfortunately, he played with it and this is where we are. So for me, Igbos should not be thinking of that. Let’s even be thinking of how to restructure the country. But if God decides that he has something to do through an Igbo man within this country, in order for us to get where we are going, I don’t have any issues with that. But let it not be bait that were offering you presidency. What makes them think if they say it, they will do it?
Still talking about church and politics, should the church make prophetic declarations?
Anyone who makes prophetic declarations let him stand by this declaration. If it didn’t come to pass, let him come and apologise to the church. This is because there have been condemnation of some of these declarations that didn’t come to pass. That’s what I’m saying. They should come and apologise to the church. There’s nothing wrong, you made a prophecy and it went over the bar, so come to church and tell the church that you lied. What annoys me is that you come and begin to paint it: I said it this way, because I said it that way. That’s nonsense. You made a prophecy, it failed. You’re a human being. Come to church and say, I failed. Then we move on.
Now, where do you see Nigeria after 2019 General Election?
Nigeria is on a course for greatness. I will never lose faith in the plan and agenda of God for Nigeria. No country can be like Nigeria. In spite of all the mess on ground, I’m telling you; there is no country as endowed as this nation. We’re mightily endowed in every area.