In the run-off to the 2015 general elections, the presiding Bishop of The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM), Dr Mike Okonkwo, was one of the few Christian leaders who backed President Muhammadu Buhari during private meetings and consultations. He explained to SUNDAY OGUNTOLA why he voted against ex-President Goodluck Jonathan despite endorsements from many leading Christian groups and organisations as well as other issues. Excerpts:
You have been labelled a supporter of the government of change…
(Cuts in)… But everyone should love change. Everyone should work for change. For me, my interest politically is whoever will deliver dividends of democracy for the nation. Regardless of that person’s religious persuasion, as long as he can deliver, he has my vote. Even if he is a heathen, I will vote for such a person.
But people are asking ‘is this is the change we voted for’?
That is the issue I keep talking about. Nigerians are naturally impatient and we chicken out once there is a little pressure. We will say we don’t want again. I read somewhere in the social media a young man who said we should go back to corruption since things appear not to be working out well. I said so we should go back to the vicious cycle? I replied the young man and said he was talking nonsense. Yes, things are not too stable but that is to tell you the rot the nation has degenerated to. You see, we are not fighting corruption. Nigeria is corruption. Everywhere you turn, every sector you turn, you find corruption.
From the messenger to driver to the boss, everyone is involved. Corruption has become a second nature to us. The truth is you hardly find anyone that has not been dragged into the industry of corruption. It is as bad as that. Corruption has become the biggest industry in the nation.
Now that Buhari is there, it will be foolhardy to say things will change overnight. Buhari will not completely eradication corruption because it’s been with us for decades. If anyone is expecting Buhari to change this even if he stays for 15 years, the person is not being sincere. I believe the current administration is fighting so hard to put things in place. The things we are seeing is corruption fighting back. We have saboteurs in the system that will take time to be detected and flushed out.
There are people enjoying where we were. They were making it with the situation we had then. They have a lot of money in their hands so they can do anything; they can create problems. But if we endure a lot, I believe things will be better.
Do you believe this administration will deliver?
I believe so with all my heart. I believe the current crop of leaders will fix this nation. That is why some people are fighting them back. It is because they know within themselves that they can deliver.
What is the basis of that belief?
Why not? They have wonderful programmes. The budget has just been passed. So, let’s watch between now and end of the year for things to start taking shape.
Do you share the belief that government should declare amnesty for all corrupt Nigerians?
I believe that we should but with stringent conditions. If you have stolen money and you are willing to willingly refund, you can access amnesty. But amnesty does not mean we should not run after all the looters of our treasuries. They have been able to accumulate too much, even more than the nation. The government has recovered so much of the loots and they should go even after more looters.
But we haven’t felt the impact of the loots reportedly recovered…
…That is because government has not declared how much was recovered. Besides, they cannot spend monies without passage of the budget. I know that a lot of these monies will be channelled towards projects that have been outlined.
But there is the concern that this government seems only interested in spending the next three years chasing thieves. Will that be a good direction to face?
Government is not chasing thieves. It is EFCC that is chasing looters; it has just been suddenly awoken. The government is working; the ministers have just been appointed and things are running. It is not Buhari that is running after thieves. The system in place will pursue the looters. We cannot leave them to enjoy our commonwealth. I mean, they have stolen monies meant for us and must vomit them by force.
In few weeks, this administration will be one. How do you assess its performance so far?
My performance appraisal is that at least people are running away who stole money. There is an awareness that impunity cannot continue. If nothing, that is a great step forward. I agree there are certain indices that are still expected but I believe that we have gone passed the period where people just did anything and got away with everything. That was what happened with the last administration. The nation just got to a point where it was more or less a banana republic. People could do anything and government cared less.
But now, there is a little bit of sanity. There is restraint that you cannot get away with illegalities. I don’t want to run into troubles but that is a good thing for us. In an atmosphere where there is no impunity, you can move the nation forward within a year. In an atmosphere of peace with people aligning and you put structures in place you can get results in six months that should have taken three years. So, I believe in the next one year, we will see results that will shock us.
So, Nigerians should be patient?
Yes, we should be patient. I mean we have no option at this state. We have to allow the government put things in place that will last and deliver dividends. There is no Nigerian that does not believe that the President and his Vice mean well. We know they won’t steal and want to change the nation. So, we should just be patient. We should bear the little inconveniences that will lead us to the Promised Land.
You were one of the few men of God that supported this administration during the electioneering campaign. Many of your colleagues are still angry you supported a Muslim against a Christian. Why did you do that?
Two or three years before the elections, I got completely disgruntled and dissatisfied with what was going on. I mean, we had a sitting Christian President yet more Christians had been killed. More churches had been destroyed, yet no compensations for anybody. Things were going wrong under the watch of a Christian President. So, I asked myself, ‘Are we really praying well? Are we praying right? Is it that there were things God was telling us that we were not willing to listen to’? So, that changed my perspectives and I started balancing things.
I came to the conclusion that we needed someone that will be able to deliver the dividends of democracy. Leading a nation is not running a church. Church has the Bible as its constitution but in a nation, you have heathens, Christians, Muslims and you have to carry everyone along. You have to protect the interests of everybody. You have homosexuals. So, I must not want a President to impose his religious views on everybody. No, no, no. He has to be able to protect the interests of everyone.
And to be able to do that, the only way is to deliver the dividends of democracy. Nigeria belongs to everyone and everyone is entitled to practise whatever he or she wants without fear of molestation.
So, you mentioned these to fellow church leaders?
I didn’t just mention; I started advocating them but my views were not popular. I stuck to my guns anyway. I kept insisting that in our very eyes, we have seen the failure of a Christian presidency and we should have a rethink. To me, Christianity should be sincere enough to admit when something is not working and not to play to the gallery, becoming sentimental that we must support a Christian. Doing that will mean the nation will continue to be in limbo.
So you have no regrets at all?
I have none at all. I was glad when Buhari came on board. I mean I could have said we should support a fellow Christian but the interest of the nation should supersede all other considerations.
Are you bothered you are called a Buhari apologist and an APC supporter?
Why should I? It is my personal opinion, which I am entitled to. Everyone is entitled to his or her political ideology. I want somebody who can deliver dividends of democracy. The other person had tried for six years and didn’t deliver. Why shouldn’t we have someone else?
You just started a full-fledged Mike Okonkwo academy. Is that because you love football? Many of your colleagues will say football is not a spiritual activity. Why should a man of God be involved in such ‘carnal’ venture?
You see, it is important that you put your ears to the grounds and know what interests people. Football is like a rallying point for millions around the globe. It is an area of interest to many. You see, there are people who will never go to universities. I always have it in me that life is not just about going to schools and acquiring certificates. Many people have other interests in life that will take them to the top.
So, the academy is about looking for young people with potentials in football and nurturing them to greatness with the fear of God.
The scholarship scheme keeps getting bigger. Are you getting overwhelmed?
I cannot because there are many people who wouldn’t have gone to schools without assistance from others. That is the truth of life. Many are stranded but brilliant. It gives me joy to be able to lift somebody up to become what he or she can be. It is always a joy in my heart.
I remember a young man, a good musician with vast knowledge of the keyboard. He had been trying to improve his skills in schools to no avail. I met him one day and asked what he was doing. He said he was trying to get into a music school in South Africa. They were asking him to send some of his works to him and I asked what was delaying him. He said he didn’t have money to pursue the admission.
So, I said, ‘You concentrate on your works, while you let me know how much everything will cost’. To cut the long story short, the young man is graduating this year. I didn’t do it for anything but because someone has been helped. It is not about training him so that he can play instrument for me. But he could become a mighty instrument in the hands of God and our nation because of his gift. It gives me joy to be able to do all of these.
