To say Chief Ebenezer Babatope, former Director of Organisation of Unity Party of Nigeria (UPN), former Minister of Transport under General Sani Abacha, Afenifere chieftain and former University of Lagos administrator has packed a lot into his seven decades on earth is an understatement. Ask the fiery political activist and he will tell you he has paid his dues. Assistant Editor, Dare Odufowokan, spoke with the Osun State-born politician on his life and times as he celebrates a landmark 70th birthday.
Sir, you turned seventy just yesterday, what does it feel like being seventy years old?
Well, I feel very happy and grateful to God almighty for preserving my life up till now. I must confess to you, given what I’ve passed through in my early life, I never for once thought I will live to be seventy. I became hypertensive at twenty-three. But here I am today. God has never allowed me to suffer any major health reverse. I thank God greatly and that is one of the reasons I am celebrating my seventieth year.
Will you now say you are fulfilled?
I am a fulfilled man. I thank God for my life so far. Let me tell you this. Papa (Obafemi) Awolowo brought me out of obscurity into national prominence. Then we had people better than me around but it will remain my honour to have had the opportunity to serve a great African leader like Awolowo. I was right beside him for five years and three months as the national director of organization. Nothing can be better than that.
Apart from that, I became a minister. That was an act of God. So, I feel fulfilled. I know that I am not a perfect person but I say God has raised me to a level that I have to be grateful to him always.
Growing up sir, was this how you envisioned Nigeria to be by the time you turn seventy?
That is a different matter altogether. We want Nigeria to be better, but we should thank God that Nigeria of today is politically is much better than what we had in the first and second republics.
Let me tell you the reason. At a time in this country, there was a cabal that believed that Nigeria was simply an extension of their private family compounds. And this feudal cabal never believed that any person from the southern part of the country could rule. They believed that the rulers of Nigeria must always come from the north. But today, times have changed. You find people who are not from the north ruling. That is why we must give kudos to all Nigerian people from the north and the east and the west for ensuring that we have seen people who are not from the north ruling.
We must salute the maturity of northern elders and praise the courage and determination of the southern people for getting to this stage. I’m not saying we have reached the Eldorado of our dream, but I am saying things are going to get better.
You were closely associated with Chief Obafemi Awolowo. What major thing did you take away from those years of close association with the late sage?
I learnt a lot. I am eternally grateful to Papa Awolowo and I thank God always for making me come in contact with him. He taught us almost all the basic principles anybody whom wished to serve the public must have. I have said many times that Papa taught us his disciples that if you are in public office, don’t enjoy what you cannot provide for yourself in your private life. If you know you cannot afford Coca-Cola in your private life, don’t go into government drinking it.
He also taught us not to take gratification from anyone so that the next morning, you will not be able to look at the person’s face. Thirdly, Papa said don’t collude with civil servants to rob government because if you do, you have bastardised the position you are holding and rubbished your own image.
So these three principles, if applied by public officials will help curb the tide of corruption in the country. Apart from these, there is also the disciplined life the old man lived. You can be sure that when Papa woke up in the morning, he would have programmed himself for the whole day. In the morning he would take breakfast, not too much but light breakfast. He hardly takes any lunch. And in the evening by five p.m, Papa was on the table for dinner. And the average number of hours Papa spent taking dinner would be three hours. All this kind of routine life Papa led had effect on all of us.
And that is why I say today, that those of us who are Papa Awolowo associates, while I am not saying we are perfect, I want to believe that there is no person that can come out and say that when we were holding public offices this is the amount of money we got as kickbacks or whatever.
The late Chief Awolowo was seen by many as strong-willed and firm. Can you recollect any weakness he had?
There is only one weakness I knew Papa had. Papa was too trusting. If you go to Papa and say we saw Babatope talking against you somewhere, Papa will not believe you. If you go to him to say such thing, Papa will ask you if you are ready to repeat what you are saying in the presence of that very person. If you are not ready to do that, he will simply ask you to keep quiet. That was the only weakness I noticed and I think that is the only weakness Papa had till he went to the world beyond.
But why was Papa Awolowo unable to win elections in places like the conservative North and core East in spite of his wide acceptance as a leader?
It was simply because like I told you, a feudal cabal believed nobody can rule Nigeria except someone from their side. This was the major reason. If you talk in terms of the minority in the North, many of them supported Awo. Even in the old Gongola State which is now Adamawa, we produced three senators. The Speaker of the then Gongola House of Assembly was an Awo supporter in the UPN. I’m told he is dead now but we produced the Speaker. Then if you go to Plateau, go to Benue you find Awo people there. Solomon Lar was in the Action Group before he pulled out. So Papa lost elections because of that credible hold on power by the cabal. And of course the power was given to them by the colonialists. Elections were manipulated. I don’t want to talk about that now.
While he was alive, in spite of these electoral losses, was Papa optimistic that the cabal will one day lose out in the power game?
Awo was sure in his mind. He was always saying that eventually Nigerians will see through the situation and then things will change. In 1983, Papa went to campaign in Bonny and he made a prediction at that rally. He said all of you in Ijaw area, you don’t vote for me now but one day an Ijaw man will become the President of Nigeria. It is then you will realize all the points I have been making. And it has happened. Jonathan is from Ijaw and he is the President of the country.
You served under General Sani Abacha. Do you have any regrets working with the late dictator?
I have no regrets whatsoever working with Abacha or with anybody for that matter. I do not do things that I will regret later. In any case, I have a book about my years under the Abacha regime. It came out in 1995 and it was well publicized all over the country. It was produced by a publisher in London. So I have no regrets.
When (Gen) Dipo Diya, who was then the number two in the government, extended invitation to my political leaders in the Awolowo political family, it was decided that myself, Papa Jakande, Olu Onagoruwa and Mrs. Mobolaji Osomo should go and serve government. Later, they said we should pull out. My memoirs will soon be out towards the end of this year and you will see reasons why I refused to pull out. If I pulled out then, I’m telling you, you will not be talking to a living Babatope now.
How do you reply those who still criticize you for serving in that government?
What do I want to reply them for? I believe that reality will come out and they will know what happened. We didn’t go to the government to steal. The records of our performances are there that on the June 12 issue, we never deviated. Solomon Lar, Jerry Gana, Onagoruwa, Jakande, myself and co. We maintained very good records all through. Eventually these records will be out and those who are criticizing us, some for selfish reasons and some for other reasons, will change their minds.
Even before the Abacha years, you were deeply involved in the politics that led to the June 12 crisis. From your own reading of events, would you say Abiola was really committed to the fight for his mandate?
Well, I was not all that close to Abiola and this was for obvious reasons. But we were together in the Social Democratic Party (SDP) and I fought ruthlessly to ensure that Abiola kept his mandate. But it was a major heroic display on the part of the Nigerian people that they voted for Abiola and Kingibe, a Muslim-Muslim ticket. Having said that I cannot answer the question for Abiola. One thing that cannot be challenged by anybody is the fact that Abiola died a martyr for democracy.
Personally now, would you say you are where you hoped to be when you are seventy politically?
What do I want to be again? I told you of how I was privileged to serve under one of Africa’s greatest leaders. Number two; I’ve been minister, no matter what people say about that era. Again I have passed through some stages in my life that I can say with due respect to Nigerians, I have paid my dues. I don’t have pension up till now because a military minister felt that since I was anti-government, nothing of such should happen.
I have been to jail three times of my life. I have been arrested by police several times. I have a daughter that is paraplegic because of my political involvement. I thank God for what I have been. I thank him for what I am and I do not aspire for something which is not approved by him. I wanted to be a senator in 1993. General Ibrahim Babangida disqualified me. I kept my peace but a year and three months later, I was appointed to be a minister. I just want to go to my grave contented that I have done my best for my people.
Are you not in any way missing your former colleagues within the progressive folds now that you are a member of the ruling conservative PDP?
I am not missing anybody. There is no party in Nigeria today that is ideological. That is the truth. There is none that can call itself a progressive party. When party politics started in 1998, Uncle Bola Ige virtually wrote the manifestoes of Alliance for Democracy (AD), Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and All Peoples Party (APP). Take the Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN) today, which has the highest number of progressives in its rank, there are also some conservatives with them. You find National Peoples Party (NPN) people there among them. Then take the PDP and you will find some Awolowo militants among us here. Nobody can say I am not an Awolowo militant. Professor Tunde Adeniran, Jubril Martins Kuye, Omilani, Dayo Abatan, etc. These are all Awolowo people and they are in the PDP. All I know is that no party can lay claim to being progressive in Nigeria.
I’ve never regretted being in PDP. My friends are still my friends. Lam Adesina was my friend till he died. Segun Osoba is still my friend. Bola Tinubu is still my friend and younger brother. When I got married he contributed at that time. These are my personal persons and we still relate as such. Why must they hate me or I hate them because we don’t belong to the same political party? But of course, I have developed a kind of political maturity given me by Awolowo that when I see a good person, I must support that person irrespective of the party he represents. That explains my support for Dr Olusegun Mimiko in Ondo State even though my party had a candidate in the race. Babatunde Fashola in his first term was doing well. And when Tinubu was there, I supported him. I told a gathering of PDP leaders once that if I were to vote in Lagos, I will vote for Bola Tinubu because he was performing. It was at the wedding of Jubril Martins Kuye’s daughter that I said that. So they don’t miss me, I don’t miss them because we are all Nigerians. When my friend Chief Bisi Akande was celebrating his 70th birthday, I wrote a whole column on him. When Lam Adesina died, I also wrote a column on him. So we are friends and I want to believe that politics should not affect our friendship. Let me give you an example, I was seventy yesterday. If you see what Ogeni Rauf Aregbesola did, you will be surprised. We don’t belong to the same party. He wrote me a letter which was read at the ceremony. So that is how politics should be.
Talking about your activities during the last governorship election in Ondo, one wonders why you are yet to be accused of anti-party activities by your party?
Let me give you the reason. Apart from the fact that I appreciated Mimiko for his performance, when we were having the last presidential election, I was the chairman of PDP’s inter party relations committee. Mimiko and the governor of Anambra State, Peter Obi, came all out to say they were supporting President Goodluck Jonathan. I am very proud of that because I related with them. So I said one good turn deserves another. Why must this person support us and we turn against him? So nobody can really say it was anti party activities. I have interest in Abiola Ajimobi and Ibikunle Amosun because they are performing. It is not about party for me anymore. Politically, I am too matured to be streamlined by party affiliation only. Look at Aregbesola, a man who respects elders. I cannot be blurred by political affiliation to the extent of not recognizing his good deeds.
The opposition is now talking about a mega party that will dislodge PDP in 2015. What is your take on the planned merger of leading opposition parties?
If they (the parties) are able to form an alliance or a merger, it is good for the country. It is good for democracy. But they cannot make it. These are already issues. A section of the alliance talks has said they will make sure Buhari contests the next election. By the time they sit to discuss, contradiction will tear them apart.
Don’t you think the crises within PDP will give the opposition a chance to dislodge it in the next election?
There is no single party without a conflict. Conflicts are meant to be resolved by those who are political practitioners. Every party has its own crisis. For example, look at Ajimobi in Oyo State. I have been following the papers. Some people have endorsed him for a second term already while some people within his party are saying nobody has endorsed him. So it is natural to have crisis. In the PDP the removal of the secretary is not really a major setback for the party. All the party did is to avoid being dragged into litigation over the activities of its secretary who has been removed by the court of law. It is also to give him all the opportunity to go and contest the decision up to the Supreme Court. And when he finishes he will be reinstated. It is not a conflict at all. And when you talk about the BoT issue, it is also no issue at all.
Coming to the Southwest, do you think the PDP can really stage the much talked-about comeback in the region?
The PDP can stage a successful comeback in the Southwest in 2015 if it puts its house in order. We lost the region because we were completely divided. And if we continue in that state of division the ACN will rout us again. To make any impact in the Southwest, the PDP must unite. There is no magic to it other than sincere reconciliation and unity.
