Category: Saturday Interview

Chief Akanni Aluko, a socialite, philanthropist and a renowned businessman, is the Publisher of the defunct Third Eye Newspaper. In this interview with OSEHEYE OKWUOFU in his Monatan Ibadan residence, he speaks about his early childhood, his experience as publisher and national issues. Excerpts:

May we share your childhood life experience ?

My childhood life was a bit rascally. Right from my primary school till when I got to secondary school. In my first year, I tried to write articles in newspapers, targeting one of our teachers who was a woman. The woman later took us to the police station and we were locked up at Modakeke, near Ife. That was at the age of 12 . They took us there on a Friday and we were in the cell till Monday. So byMonday morning, a Rev. Father went to see the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adesoji Aderemi, who later became the governor of the western region at the time and we were brought out and warned against writing about our teachers. We were living in the same hostel with the woman. Those were the type of things I was involved in at the time. I grew up as a very rascally person.

What  is the name of the paper and what did you write?

We were in Form One at the time in 1958 and we didn’t even know the name of the paper, but we were just writing. We were using the style of the Daily Times newspaper that was very popular then. I had started reading Daily Times right from my young age. So, we were doing it exactly like a newspaper. We would draw the woman, that is our teacher and a man and paste it around. She took part of what we pasted to the police station and the police arrested us. That was the kind of life I was living and I grew up like that. I so much liked Wole Soyinka’s kind of life at the time. He was very courageous and bold and I was hoping that I would be like him one day.

Can you still remember some of your mates then?

I remember many of them. We often call one another till today. We communicate almost every day. They gave me a nickname in Ijesha language “Han yi olopa nko o”. I started working in 1965 and by 1967, 1969, 1970, Dejo Oyewo and myself established a company. We called it Dejo Akanni Enterprises. I met Tunde Akingbade at that time who was working with the Nigerian Herald newspaper. Tunde later brought in Tunji Adedigba. I was at Fiditi at the time.

How did you and your friends enthrone the Elejigbo of Ejigbo ?

The present Oba in Ejigbo told me he wanted to be an Oba in Ejigbo. I told him: “ You have become an Oba for telling me.”  That was how we started. We left Fiditi for Ejigbo, bringing some press people I knew together. With Tunji Adedigba, we expanded with Akingbade Famojuro, Oyegbade from BCOS. That was how we expanded. I became a local champion coordinating. I had to tell the Oba when the governor was trying to give his final approval that everything we were doing, the world should know. If he won or lost, the world should know. We started reporting all he was doing in the paper. My friend, Ogundoyin was also with us as well as Arisekola Alao. So, when it was time for the final approval, we had five out of the kingmakers on our side, remaining three others. When  they got to their meeting, they were calling them one after the other. When it was the turn of our man, because we had done a lot of work for him, we didn’t have money but we had mouth, our man won at the end of the day and the governor finally approved it. The governor was a military man; I think it was Oluwole Rotimi.  That was in 1974. The press people are my friends and I’m happy to say that anywhere in the world. Since 1970, they’ve been my close friends till today. I am still with the press, the press people are still with me.

How was your experience with the Third Eye newspaper?

When I was setting up the newspaper, I was a bit naive. With the kind of press support I had, I thought they would contribute immensely to the success of the paper. But, we ran into a lot of difficulty at the end of the day. In the beginning, we had somebody, a former private secretary of Baba Awolowo.  They employed over 2,000 people and that was one of our fundamental problems. All the newsprint we bought that was supposed to last for about four or six months when we started were exhausted before the time. The paper was going to Maiduguri, Jos, Calabar, Lagos, Akure, Ondo, Sokoto and every part of the country. They would begin printing and they never finished on time. They knew they could not sell, yet they would still print and carry to all those points.

So, late arrival was a major problem for us and when I returned from my journey, they had finished all the materials, including the money I left behind. They employed more than they needed. They had personal assistant to the editor, personal assistant to the deputy editor, coffee boy to the editor and so on. So, that was what brought us down. I came back with the aim of re-structuring, but it was very difficult. You know, when you employ somebody, to push him out is always very difficult. Termination of appointment took like 18 months. We were not ready to sit down to properly do the restructuring. And with the type of news we were carrying, people were ready to buy our paper but wrong administration was a major problem.

It was not as if one had established a newspaper to serve one’s interest. I thought the press would join me in building an institution for themselves, but I was wrong. We now saw that the type of criticism I did against somebody like Abiola was not correct. A publisher doesn’t have the power to control everything that goes into the newspaper. That is part of the problem publishers face and you cannot do it alone. You must get responsible people. These were parts of problems Third Eye faced. Before we were through with the restructuring, we were out of fund. I was busy trying to keep my company and the paper and those who we spared could not cope. They were making money and spending it. Those were the experiences, but if I would ever be in a position to do it again, I will do it better.

Will you say the nation’s economic problem contributed to the failure of  the Third Eye newspaper?

No, I wouldn’t say that,  because things were even better then than now. We started experiencing economic failure more during Obasanjo’s era and we‘ve not got out of it.

Do you have any regret about Third Eye or about life generally?

I have no regret at all. I told you that if I have the opportunity again, I will do it better. As for the other aspect of your question, I thank God for what He has done in my life and where He’s taking me to.

Nigeria just marked her 52nd Independence anniversary, do you see the country moving forward?

Nigeria is in a very terrible situation. Our political operators are not sincere, everybody sees himself as President. Both chambers of the National Assembly are even competing with the power of the President and PDP is not helping matters. I have never seen a country where the president will be told that his security to contest another election is not guaranteed. Things are not done like that, we look at other countries to move our nation forward. Everybody sees himself as President and competing with the President, they want to tell us how much he can spend and how he will spend it. Which law gives them the power to do what they are doing? They are lawless. Which law states that they must dictate to the owner of the purse? They are not in the National Assembly to talk about how to make money but how to make laws.

They are playing to the gallery and things can never be redeemed, because they are part of the problem. America that we all respect, how many of us know how  they spend their money? Or do they tell the masses how much they are making? No, the owner of the Nigerian purse is the president of the country. The whole world is accusing the country of not spending well, everybody knows that, we are so careless about our spending and that is why we have our money being stolen and we don’t see them again. They have started again. They don’t want to pass the budget. The man gave them a budget proposal, but they are saying the man must put it at a certain figure. If you don’t want to approve the budget, don’t approve it, or do they think Jonathan is the one in trouble? It’s all of them. So, when they start blackmailing the President with impeachment, where would they be? They are in the same position and they are inviting on themselves revolution, the type of revolution I don’t know but they would be consumed by it. So, why are they blackmailing us? Why are they acting a comedy? Some of us are wise enough. They said he spent 75 per cent last year, and now they are saying he didn’t spend the money early. They have started the same thing as last year. If you look into it, it’s because the man is not spending. They are helping him not to spend. We do not even know what they are up to. Everybody can see what they are doing.  Leave the man with his budget. Why does a president need to release money on budget? That is not part of budgeting. The House should perform its oversight function effectively rather make unnecessary noise.

What is your candid assessment of President Jonathan’s performance?

Have they allowed the man to perform? Everybody wants to act like a president; everybody in the National Assembly wants to be President. Now, are they allowing him to work and his plan to be effective? Is it now that we should be talking about that when a ruling party has one-term president? Nobody struggles with the president in any part of the world. I think the PDP should just put their house in order. People are saying the President is not working, how will he work when they have not allowed him? If Jonathan is tired, he should resign, but if he’s not tired, they should allow him to complete his term. That is what the constitution says. The man has been pumping a lot of money on agriculture and at the end of the day, many people, even graduates, would become agriculturists and it will help the nation.

Are you saying you are satisfied with his style of administration?

He has been taking good steps and measures. He’s moving, but they should allow him to work. The world is supporting Nigeria now because Jonathan is the man they are watching. Jonathan is the symbol, that is why the whole world is supporting us. If they now see that Nigerians don’t even want Jonathan, that is a different case. It’s like we are inviting revolution. The kind of revolution, I don’t know, but none is good for the country. Let them amend the law that allows money to circulate.

What do you think can be done to address the state of insecurity in the country?

To check all the killings, we have to seriously pray for good governance and to get good governance is in the hands of God. Jonathan can’t do it alone.

What can you say about the clamour for Sovereign National Conference?

Something like that was done during the time of Abacha and he was really disappointed. I know my tribe {Yoruba}  favours  the national conference, but do you think anything can be achieved there? People are thinking it might divide the country, but anybody thinking like that is calling for war. What are the Yoruba going to do if we don’t achieve what we want from the national conference? We supported Jonathan in last year’s election. Our vote must count. Nigeria is a country where we have people of different interests.

Barrister Paul Eze is the President of Nsukka Zonal Citizens, Abuja, a pan-Igbo pressure group out to see the actualisation of the creation of Adada State from the present Enugu State. In this interview with Sanni Onogu in Abuja, he explains why the creation of the state is long overdue. Excerpts: 

When did the clamour for the creation of Adada State begin?

It began formally in 1983. It came to the limelight through a motion moved in the House of Representatives by Hon. Yenusa Kaltungo from Bauchi State. Since then, the request has gathered momentum, involving the Enugu State Government, policy makers, professional bodies, students, and even market women in Enugu North Senatorial District of Enugu State. When the Second Republic ended, the request was once more represented before the Mbanefo Panel on state and local government creation and boundary adjustment in 1996. The committee considered the request, but the creation of Ebonyi State was favoured.

The Obasanjo administration in 2005 also convened a conference to reform political issues in Nigeria. The Political Reform Committee in its submission unflinchingly agreed to create a new state in the South East to bring the region at par with other geopolitical zones in Nigeria. It may interest you to know that some geopolitical zones already have seven states while the South East only has five. At its deliberation in the National Assembly in 2005, the request for Adada enjoyed full support. Also in 2006, the South East Caucus of the National Assembly, ably led by former Senate President Ken Nnamani, inaugurated a 10-man committee of senators and House Representatives members from the five states of the South East under the chairmanship of Senator Ifeanyi Ararume. They deliberated in Owerri on March 26, 2006 with former Imo Governor Achike Udenwa playing the host.

At that forum, there were requests for state creation. The demands were on Aba, Adada, Njaba and Orashi states. The committee called for voting to ensure democracy and justice in determining which one to choose. Past and present governors from the zone, speakers of state houses of assembly, leaders of Ohanaeze Ndigbo, political leaders among others participated in the voting. The results, which you can verify, reads thus: Adada, 5; Orachi, 3; Aba, 2, and Njaba, 0. For your information, Adada is the oldest request ever and the most persistent in the old Eastern Nigeria.

There are so many demands for state creation from the South East zone. Why do you think it must be Adada?

The proposed Adada State is densely populated, although there are only seven local government areas in the zone. That is another imbalance calling for redress. These local government areas are Igbo-Etiti, Uzo-Uwani, Isi-Uzo, Nsukka, Udenu, Igbo-Eze North and Igbo-Eze South. Adada constitutes over 49 per cent of the current Enugu State. The cultural affinity, unanimity of purpose to live together and quest for self-determination ignited the request for its creation. In fact, since 1906, the proposed Adada State has been administered as one unit either as a district or a province. This is the only old province in the entire Eastern Nigeria that is not yet made a state.

The creation of Adada State will also usher in internal political balance within the Igbo of the South-East geopolitical zone and a balance between the South East and other five geopolitical zones. Igbo land has two divisions: North and South. This was emphasised in 1970 during the demand for Wawa State. These divisions have equal landmass and equal population. Currently, there are three states in the Southern Igbo wing, namely Abia, Anambra and Imo. The North has only Enugu and Ebonyi states. This goes to show that Adada will bring equity and ensure political equality both in the South East at large and its internal structure.

Many states today are finding it difficult to pay salaries. Do you think Adada State could be self-sustaining if created?

It is the hub of skilled man power in Nigeria. It houses the University of Nigeria. There are other higher institutions which I may not mention yet. Nsukka Urban alone has over 200 private and public schools. The area also has abundant fertile land for commercial farming. Rivers Adada, Amayi, Ubene and Obina can give the entire Nigeria food if irrigation facilities are put in place. The giant World Bank Rice and Ada Rice, all located at Uzo Uwani, are just a tip of the iceberg. There is also the famous NALDA Farm in Agu Ukehe in Igbo Etiti, and the Enugu State Irrigation Farm at Ete Igboeze North; Okpuje Federal Piggery Project to mention a few. Adada can boast of abundant production of rice, yam, cassava, maize, beans, cashew fruit, palm oil plantation and other cash crops. In the area of tourism, there are lakes, springs and waterfalls in Nsukka, Igbo Etiti and Igbo Eze South local government areas.

In the area of mineral resources, Adada has many oil fields at Nsukka. Crude oil production has commenced at Igga and Ukpatu in Uzo Uwani and in Ehalumona. Ezimo in Udenu has a large deposit of coal, kerosene and glass.

Do you have the support of your state government?

We have the blessings of Governor Sullivan Chime in every ramification. There is a committee in the state called the Adada State Actualisation Committee with the mandate of making this request a reality. Again, the Enugu State House of Assembly on 24 April, 2008 passed a resolution supporting the creation of Adada State.

Lawrence Ayo Ladigbolu is a retired Archbishop of Methodist Church of Nigeria , a Prince of Oyo dynasty who has devoted his entire life to the service of the people through philanthropy, charity, community development and ministering to the needy. In this interview with OSEHEYE OKWUOFU in his Oyo residence, the minister of God spoke on his early childhood , life in the palace and how he was sent on exile from Alaafin’s palace for embracing Christianity.

Can we know you sir?

My name is Lawrence Ayo Ladigbolu. I am a retired Methodist minister and my last position was that of Bishop of Ilesa and Archbishop of Ilesa Diocese Methodist Church of Nigeria.

As a young prince, what motivated you into the ministry as a career?

Well, I grew up in the palace of the Alaafin of Oyo. And there was really nothing in my beginning that could have given anybody an idea that I would end up as a clergy. When I was growing up, I was sent to the Arabic/Islamic training school.

I was tutored in the traditions and culture of the royal court. So, that was really my foundation. I could not have imagined that I could one day be a Methodist minister, talk less of becoming a Bishop or Arch-bishop.

My growing up was fun in those days, especially in the palace because of the colour, grandeur, beauty and fan-fare that attended life within the royal court of the Alaafin of Oyo. It was a play ground for making friends, for meeting people of various tribes and cultures and of course, for the children then, it was a good place to grow up because it was a melting point of the richest of the Yoruba and other Nigerian cultures. So, I still have very good memories of my growing up in the palace.

How would you describe your years in the primary school?

Oh! they were very good years because the up-bringing in the palace did not allow anybody to feel important and as a child of the king, we were subjected to all kinds of manual labour that ordinary people performed. We would join the horse tenderers to get grass for the horses. We would join the labourers to work within the precinct of the palace. We were subjected to normal ordinary life of an average Oyo person. And so, going to school, we did not get any preferential treatment.

We were treated like all other children. We were beaten when we deserved to be beaten. We were scolded when we deserved scolding. And we were not spared any discipline that normal school child should get. But then, going to school too was very good, myself and others with whom we grew up together were never lacking behind in our education. Most of the time I took first position. I can’t remember anytime I was second or third throughout my primary education, and indeed, I had then what they called automatic promotion from primary one to standard one. And that meant that I skipped primary two because they thought I knew enough to move up to the standard classes as they were called then. That was when education was education and teaching were devoted, teaching as if they wanted you to succeed.

They taught you as if they were determined to make something out of your life. And so, I still remember with great nostalgia my teachers, although late because they were truly teachers, molders of characters, determinants of destinies.

While in these classes, what subject did you love most?

I don’t think I had any favorite subject because I did well in all my subjects. But looking back, I think, apart from General Knowledge, Arithmetic, Hygiene and the Physical and Health Education, I had a liking for English Language; Literature and Writing. In my fourth year in primary school, I was made the editor of the school Magazine. And so, from about 1954, I had been involved, one way or the other, in the business of writing and editing and so on. And later in my fifth year and final year in the primary school, I was leading the campaign for free education because free education was then being introduced in the Western Region. And I was leading the campaign and speaking at forums where parents and stakeholders were assembled to explain to them the value of education. They (parents) were encouraged to let their children come and enjoy the benefit of free and compulsory education that the late Chief Obafemi Awolowo was introducing during that time. So I think that writing and speaking were my favorite subjects from that time on and I think it has stucked.

Was there any day you played truant in the school ?

Indeed, I remembered one occasion when I tried to play truant. I think I feigned illness and didn’t want to go to school because there was an event coming up in our area that I wanted to watch. And it was discovered that I was feigning ill. So, they delegated somebody to take me on a bicycle to school and when we got there, the headmaster was informed that the reason somebody had to bring me to school was that I didn’t want to come. And so, they assembled all the pupils and asked two of them to hold me and one strong old student to cane me. He gave me 12 lashes of the cane just because I didn’t want to come to school. And you could see that there was no preferential treatment because you were nobody because students were students, teachers were teachers and discipline was enforced in those days.

Can you still remember some of your classmates back then at school?

Oh yes, I still remember my mates in primary and secondary schools. I went to what they called then Secondary Modern, which was not a regular secondary school at that time. I remember names but I am not sure of many who are still alive. Probably two or three names that I have not heard of. And it’s been sometime because we are talking of between 1951, 1952. So, it is some distance in time. And of course, in the post primary, there are still a number of my classmates and colleagues who are still alive till today. In fact, I heard of one of them about two weeks ago who lives in Ibadan and he was one of my closest friends. Not long ago, someone gave me a message from Adewole Owobamirin. There is another Oyeniyi who I saw about a forthnight ago and of course, a number of them have passed on including Rev. Dr. Julius Olayode who became a distinguished Baptist Minister and has since passed on.

And there are still a number of them but because of distance and everything else, we have not been in communication for a long time.

What was your experience when you made the decision to become a Methodist priest, I mean, how did your parents react to your decision?

That is a fairly long story. First was when I became a Christian and that really came before the issue of becoming a minister and there was a very strong opposition from the family. Serious and severe opposition because as I told you earlier I had gone to Arabic school to learn and I had gone through the process of initial graduation. And I had even gone beyond learning the Quran to the point of learning the interpretation. And because of my activities in the community, whenever a Christian evangelist came to Oyo to preach, I was the one who would go out and confront them. We would argue with them in order to look for a weak point in the Christian faith and seek to exploit them. We tried to denigrate the religion and its adherents. So, it made me a bit more popular among the young people of my age and even among some adults then. And so, when suddenly I encountered Jesus Christ and surrendered my life to Him, people thought I had gone crazy. They assumed that I had gone mad actually.

And when they assembled my family, my mother was crying believing that somebody had bewitched me and that in my right mind, I could not have suddenly turned from what I was to what I then became. And so, it was an uproar and the entire community joined to the point that I was ostracised by the community. Some people took me in and and hid me for about three to four years. But finally, I didn’t know the family was monitoring, they had a network of monitors.

They were monitoring my movement, my pronouncements and my utterances. And suddenly, after about four years, I got a message to come home, to the same palace. I was told that ‘all the comments about you and your behaviour in all these years of your exile have been positive and so we know that what you are doing is what God designed for you to do. Though it is against our wish but we cannot argue with God. So, you can go ahead and carry on from there.’

And all these four years that I was in exile, I was learning more about the Bible. I went to the United Missionary Theological College in Ilorin and got a Diploma in Theology, which equipped me to be a better teacher of the Bible and evangelist. My family told me ‘you could return home and rejoin us because we believe that you are not fanatic or so to say but you are a convinced believer in what you are doing, we will let you come back.’

And so, I did come back and later on became an ordained minister when I received God’s call to become a minister and eventually I became a bishop.

The Alaafin of Oyo sent his staff of office and through his queens, to witness that event at Methodist Church, Tinubu, Lagos. And that was the greatest sign of the family acceptance of me and of my conviction of faith and of my choice of vocation. So that is the long story that I sought to tell you in a nutshell.

Throughout your years of service as a minister, do you have any regret?

Certainly. Not because coming from such a very humbl beginning, humble in the sense that before the Lord all of us are equal whether you are a prince or a pumper, we were all created equal and we will be judged equally. Of course, the judgment of some will be more severe because of their knowledge and their privilege. Being called by God and being given all the opportunities of good training, the church still insisted that I had to go to Ibadan Emmanuel College for some further training because that was their own prescribed training, regardless of what training I have had before.

The church also gave me a scholarship to go to United States of America to attend a seminary as well as to study Mass Communication degree programme in a University because they knew of my flair for journalism and communication. There was the benefit that would be to the church.

I also had the opportunity to head a training institution for ministers, male and female workers in the vineyard, Sagamu. It is called the Methodist Theological Institute.

For about seven years, I was the principal and I laid the foundation for the training programme in Methodist Church. I helped in some way to establish the communication unit of the church, its publishing organ and so on. I rose to the position of a bishop and became the Archbishop. There were challenges alright, but all said and done, the Lord has been good, He has been extremely good to us, to me as a person, to our family. So, no regrets at all because God has just been good.

You talk of challenges, what were these challenges in the course of your labour in the vineyard?

You know, in the ministry, if one is truly called, if you planned to be a rich man, rich man in terms of fame, luxury, opulence, you are out of the mission.

So, our needs have also been supplied. There had been times when from morning till night, you wonder where will the next meal come from?

But the Lord, in His mercy, will open doors and more than enough food will come, if you learn to trust in Him and look up to Him always. Challenges like, how do I pay my child’s school fees with the little salaries that a minister receives, will always come, but then you will find the Lord, in His mercy will send you help from heaven and you will meet those kind of needs and you will still have little left to take care of other needs.

Even health challenges, you feel like oh, in case of incapacitation, how do I continue to serve the Lord? But the Lord will renew your strength. These are the kinds of challenges that I believe are normal for human beings and we have not been excluded from them. But in all of these, we have found the Lord faithful and good.

Before your voluntary retirement, what did you plan to do in your post-retirement?

Well, there was some unique aspect to my own retirement because I took voluntary retirement. Just about three years ahead of the statutory time for me to retire, I felt God was prompting me to retire before I was to retire. And it took me some time to convince both the authorities of the church and even some members of my own family. When I became a minister, God spoke to me. I felt His hand, His touch, and so, when this prompting from God came saying: ‘Hey, Ayo, three years ahead of your retirement, you should retire.

And he kept saying it and showing it and drumming it, I could not resist. And so, people could not understand, considering the condition of service in the church that was being improved. Maybe I should have gained some material benefits but the call of God and His message to me was stronger. And I chose to obey. So, I retired seven years ago and decided to come home to Oyo . I had a choice of settling in any part of Nigeria, but I felt the spirit was leading me to come to Oyo to help this community, because having been gone for more than 40 years, travelling all over the world, I had Him saying: ‘when you retire, go to your people and serve me through them in the areas of community development in the areas of wholislic healthcare and in the area of ministering to the needy.

In fact, that really brings us back to the issue of what is going to happen on Tuesday (December 4) because all along, in all the years of my service I have been connected with philanthropy and charity. When I was bishop of Ibadan, the late former Governor Lam Adesina and I and a certain Victor Taiwo started an organization called New Generation Foundation for the disabled and I was chairman. Governor Adesina was my deputy and Victor Taiwo was our secretary.

We tried to help the disabled people find solace. Before that, I had worked with various development agencies for the poor and the needy and that really also led me to becoming involved in the work of Bode Akindele Foundation because it was that Foundation that built the Ayo Ladigbolu house as a donation to the Methodist Church, Ibadan Diocese. They chose to name it after me because from my years of connection with that foundation, I was rendering services to other organizations and various entities all over the country free of charge.

So, the Lord was saying to me go back home when you retire and help your people; serve them the way you have been serving people of different climes while you were in active service. And so, when I came back , we started New Hope Global Associate Family Care Services, which was looking for people living with HIV/AIDS. We have a support group of more than 2,000 coming from different parts of Oyo State to receive help and counseling and we are glad.

And I can go on and tell you several things that had happened including the recent Oranyan Festival celebrated by all of the Yoruba nation which our people, our brothers and sisters in diaspora also joined us. I have also been involved in cultural issues. I’m a member of Yoruba cultural groups and associations and I have been very very busy in my retirement still serving the Lord, still serving the people, still seeking to be useful to the very end of my life.

Throughout your service in the vineyard, can you recall an event that caused you sadness and the greatest happiness?

Well, its very difficult to pin-point any at the professional level, but perhaps the death of my mother. My greatest joy and my greatest sadness will all be related to my mother. My greatest joy was when she openly confessed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior voluntarily and that was about two years before she died and she became a Christian. Throughout the years I left her to her own conviction. We kept lifting Jesus before her, in the things we did, in the things we said, in the ways we carried on, until she came to a point where she said I want to belong to Jesus and that was my greatest and happiest day. And then of course, I wish she had lived longer and seen me move up in the ministry and maybe get to see a bit more of the world and enjoy the benefit of caring for her only son and loving me so much. So, I will say my happiest and saddest moment will be related to my dear mother.

On the national scene, many are of the opinion that Nigeria will be better off if it breaks, do you share this sentiment?

I don’t share that sentiment and it will take some persuading for me to change that position, not because I am happy with the way things are, not because I see any bright prospect of change in the nearest future but simply because we know and we are aware of the history of nations that have been pushed together like us that have found themselves in uncomfortable partnerships like ours but which, in the process of wanting to go their separate ways ended up creating more problems within their own smaller entities than the ones they were running away from. And so for me, I think the best thing we can do is to keep talking, leave the doors open for talks, leave room for ideas that can help us to further cement this fragmenting structure that the British have established for us because there will be more benefits in having one Nigeria than having for example a South West zonal country. Before you know it, the Ekiti will now see more of how the Oyo people are cheating them, the Itsekiri will see more of how the Egba are ‘chopping’ everything and leaving nothing for them. And before long, there will be internal strife and disintegration will come again.

So, I feel like if we have a constitution in this country that allows each of the zones to develop at their own pace, to manage their own resources, to make adequate contributions to the centre so as to sustain the centre and strengthen the units and weaken the centre, without making the centre subservient to the federating units, we can live together as a nation where no man is suppressed. It is the issue of suppression, it is the issue of marginalisation that usually pushes people to want to go their own ways. But I think we are better off going it together, than going it our separate ways. That is my own position. We will be happy to have a more humane Nigeria than a regional or zonal set up called zonal country or whatever name it will be called, where, before you know it, people will begin to disturb each other and beginan to destroy one another.

The First Lady of Ekiti State and Founder of Ekiti Development Foundation (EDF), Erelu Bisi Fayemi is reputed as one of the busiest Nigerian first ladies on account of her tight schedules. That much was confirmed by our correspondent, KUNLE AKINRINADE, who had a 16-hour encounter with her in Ado-Ekiti a few days ago. She also opened up on her life as the wife of the Governor of Ekiti State and a gender activist.

Like others before it, October 9 was a busy day for the wife of Ekiti State Governor, Erelu Olabisi Fayemi. The previous day, she had been in Lagos for a meeting with some of her colleagues and had hardly closed her eyes for three hours as she spent the night putting finishing touches to an 18-page speech she was to deliver at the Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile-Ife, Osun State.

For the reporter, the opportunity to witness the itinerary of the famous rights activist came on a rather short notice. Her Special Assistant on Media, Akin Oyedele, had sent a text message inviting the reporter to be on the entourage of the First Lady of Ekiti State. “I have the instruction of Her Excellency to have you on her entourage today,” the message read in part.

The reporter arrived the agreed meeting point at about 7.15 am and was briefly introduced to her media team by Oyedele. By 7.30 am, Erelu Fayemi, looking elegant in a black skirt-suit and a pair of red shoes, emerged from her room, signalling the commencement of the journey.

Her convoy, made up of eight vehicles, arrived at the Ogere end of the Lagos-Ibadan Expressway at about 9.15 am. At Ogere, there was a light traffic that lasted about 10 minutes. After about two hours, Erelu Fayemi and her entourage arrived at the OAU into the waiting hands of some alumni of the institution.

She was immediately ushered into the Vice-Chancellor’s office where the VC, Prof. Tale Omole, eulogised her for her outstanding contributions to the university.

“We want to commend you for your passion and interest in this school. We want to appreciate your effort for sparing your time to interface with the university,” Omole said. He then went on to intimate Fayemi with some of the activities lined up for her visit.

He said: “We have a three-pronged programme for you. You are to deliver a lecture, lay the foundation for the Centre for Gender Studies and we are also hosting you to a lunch.”

Erelu Fayemi signed the visitors’ register at about 11.20 am, after which Omole presented her with a gift. Her next port of call was the main auditorium, venue of the lecture, where she shone like a star.

The programme commenced with a short poetry performance by Prof. Lere Oladitan. Oladitan rendered two poems, namely Eko and Mount of Pounded Yam. The performance, which lighted up the auditorium, ended at 12.20 pm and was immediately followed by Erelu Fayemi’s citation by Dr. E.T Babalola at 12.22 pm. Fayemi made her way to the dias at 12.30pm to deliver the institution’s Faculty of Arts Annual Conference Lecture entitled: “Re-enacting Leadership in Nigeria: The Place and Role of Humanities.”

She held the audience spell-bound with her nearly two hours of eloquent presentation. So forceful was her presentation that at a point, she lifted one of her legs to drive home a point. One of her aides had to intermittently offer her a handkerchief to mop the beads of sweat that lined her beautiful face.

In the middle of the lecture, she noticed a member of the audience in the front row whose GSM phone had rung noisily. The Ekiti amazon politely asked him to step outside to answer his call in order not to disturb the rest of the audience.

Condemning gender-based violence in her speech, she said: “Women in positions of influence should advance policies and laws that will protect women, provide for their needs and guarantee their wellbeing.

“We need identities that affirm our rights as full citizens, with rights of participation, engagement and protest. We also need to assert our rights; to use the power of our numbers as a critical voting mass and bring to power men and women who will truly transform our societies and create the enabling environment for all marginalised people to thrive.”

She did not end the lecture without sounding a note of warning to male undergraduates who are in the habit of abusing their female counterparts, saying that grave consequences await such errant students. Although the lecture ended at 1.32 pm, another 20 minutes was spared for a question-and-answer session. Thereafter, Fayemi was presented with the Ori Olokun bronze as a mark of appreciation by the Dean of the Faculty of Arts, Prof. Oladipo Salami at 2 pm.

At about 2.15 pm, she left for the venue of a foundation laying ceremony of a building she intended to donate to the school as part of activities marking the institution’s 50th anniversary.

After a brief ceremony, she was again presented with a gift of her life-size portrait. She turned the sod of the building of OAU Centre for Gender Studies at 3.15 pm, urging other old students of the institution to contribute towards the infrastructural development of the school.

She was subsequently hosted to a reception at the OAU Staff Club where Prof. Omole again showered praises on her for giving back to her alma mater among the over 80,000 other former students of the institution. The ceremony ended at 4.25.

But just as the elegant Ekiti First Lady was about to step out of the hall, she was ‘hijacked’ by former members of the school’s Kegite Club for another round of discussion that lasted till about 4.55 pm.

The journey to Ado-Ekiti thus began at 5.10 pm.The trip took the convoy through Erinmo-Ijesha and other communities along the axis. The convoy ran into a procession mounted by a group of jubilant supporters of local masquerades at Igede-Ekiti. Her train finally arrived in Government House, Ado-Ekiti at 6.50 pm, but the reporter’s hope of getting her for a chat took more than one hour to materialise. The chat eventually took place in an expansive living room that bore a life-size portrait of Governor Kayode Fayemi. Excerpts:

Would you say that your life as a woman rights activist and gender advocate was by accident or a result of your academic background?

I think my interest and passion for women’s rights started when I was doing my first master’s degree at the University of Ife now Obafemi Awolowo University (OAU), Ile-Ife, Osun State. A very good friend of mine who had just returned from Canada suggested that I should write my thesis on women issues because she thought that I sounded like someone who should be interested in women’s issues. And at that time, I had no understanding of women’s movement and right issues. But this friend of mine gave me a copy of a book by Jemmy Griffin titled The Female Eunuch and the book completely changed my life and perspective. That gave me the courage to go to my professors to say that I would like to write something about women in Yorubaland, their history and their contributions to the socio-political development of the society.

I met a lot of fantastic women in the course of the project because I travelled wide to places like Ondo, Akure and different parts of Ekiti. Those women I mentioned were not even major political figures, and that was where my passion for gender activism started.

I later left for England to further my education and earned another master’s degree in Gender Studies because I wanted to acquaint myself with gender issues. I subsequently worked with various gender organisations and I decided to spend the rest of my life working as a women’s rights activist.

But apart from academic background, what other things influenced your life of activism? Did you experience cases of rights abuse while growing up?

When people ask me why I do what I do, I tell people that it is because I always believe that women have choices on issues of concern to them. My father brought me up to know that I could do anything I wanted to do in life; that I could have my own opinion; that I could speak out my mind. He also brought me up to know the value of service to the society. So, with these values that I have learnt from my father, I find it strange when people say that women don’t have a right and that they cannot have the same advantage as men in our society.

There was this lady who was like a big sister to me when I was growing up. We lived on the same street and she was into a violent relationship. Every other night, she got beaten up by her husband and he would lock her out. She would run to my father to help her talk to her husband.

One night, when she ran to our house, my father was already in bed. My mother asked me to tell her husband that my father would see him the next day. I was shocked at what I saw when I got to their house. The man just barked at the lady. He was so rude to his wife even in my presence, saying: “Is that how you’ll talk to your husband? Put your hands beside you and stand straight!” Then I said to myself, if this is what marriage is all about, I don’t think I’ll want to get married.

In the five years that the lady was striving to earn a Higher National Diploma (HND), she gave birth to three children such that she could not focus well on her studies. This kind of situation encouraged my passion to fight women marginalisation and for the rights of women to have or make choices on issues affecting their lives.

Your official project, the Ekiti Development Foundation (EDF), has succeeded in making a case for women through the enactment of gender-based laws which protect women from all kinds of abuses. But there are cases of men who suffer abuses from women too. What is the fate of such men in Ekiti State?

Although, the law seeks to protect women’s rights from being violated, if there are men whose rights have been violently violated, they are free to come forward and their rights will also be protected by the law because it is all encompassing. But you know cases like that are in the minority, and that is why the vast majority of those who the law seeks to protect are women.

Apart from the gender-based violence laws, what other things have you done to better the lots of people, particularly in the area of education?

I am happy to say that the girl-child education is a source of pride in Ekiti State because we have more girls enrolled in schools than boys. And we have free education and child rights law which prevent parents from keeping their children at home in order to engage them in trading when they should be in school.

The challenge we have is keeping girls in school, because they face a lot of issues. They are compelled to do some activities like cooking and selling while the boys while away their time. In the course of engaging them in trading activities or other things, they are molested by all kinds of people including their guardians, and they get pregnant and this stops them from continuing with their education.

However, we are working with the Ministry of Education in order to embark on a sensitisation and awareness programme to highlight the implication of this and its effect on the education of girls and their future.

Given the agrarian nature of Ekiti State, what have the women benefited from your project?

Truly, Ekiti is largely agrarian and government is investing a lot in agriculture. But Ekiti Development Foundation (EDF) is focused on women development and empowerment. A lot of women are as well into subsistence farming and other activities like trading. And during my tour of council areas in January, we were able to provide women farmers with fertilisers.

But it is not farming alone that women engage in. There are other activities that women do to earn a living; like trading, arts and crafts. We are funding them as well as assisting cooperative organisations with funds. Basically, what we are doing is to help them in order to ensure gender balancing in the distribution of wealth.

It has been two years now that you became the Ekiti First Lady. Tell me about your greatest achievements so far?

My greatest achievement in the last two years is the support I have given to my husband. Others include the enactment of the gender violence prohibition law, the Multiple Birth Trust Fund, creation of awareness for increase in women participation in government which occasioned the Ekiti Women Leadership Forum, and the organisation of Ekiti State Festival of Arts and Culture, etc.

You and your husband had been into activism for some time before he became the Ekiti State governor. Now that he is a politician, do you have any particular line of disagreement on issues?

I am someone who usually wants to get results on time. So, when situations like that occur, he would ask me to be a bit patient and that we would get the desired results soon. Therefore, we really don’t have disagreement because my husband is my best friend and we understand each other very well.

How did you meet him?

My husband went to Obafemi Awolowo University (OAU), Ile-Ife, for master’s degree but got something more than that (laughter). We met in the classroom but got talking at Prof. Oluwasanmi Library. He was the one I was referring to in a joke earlier today, about someone who got more than he went to do at OAU.

What kinds of book do you read?

I love biographies. And there are a couple of books I have read and still do. I have read books written by feminist writers like Alice Walker, Amina Mamah and Mayah Angelo, among others. I also like reading general literatures written by Wole Soyinka, Ben Okri, Chimamanda Adichie and a lot of literatures in the development world on women’s rights and gender issues.

Which book are you currently reading?

I am currently reading The Nomad by Aayah Helis and Omoluabi 2.0 written by a very good friend of mine, Wale Ajadi.

What’s the attraction to your trademark Afro hair?

Oh, my hair-do? I am not going to tell you the reason (laughter). But, to be honest with you, I like looking natural. Chemicals have not touched my hair in the last 20 years. I hate putting chemicals in my hair and I don’t buy the idea of African women looking like Caucasian ladies. So, I am comfortable wearing Afro because it is natural. But there is a secret about my hair I won’t let you into because I don’t want it for public consumption.

What is your typical day like?

 My day starts early and ends late. But more than any other thing, I take proper care of my health. I go to the gym and I eat well. Because if you are not careful, your body may not be able to take you any further in your activities as you advance in age. I believe that the greatest asset any human being can have is good health and not material acquisitions.

What should the people of Ekiti expect from you in the next two years?

As part of the vision behind the establishment of EDF, we are embarking on the first ever Ekiti Food Bank that would cater to the needs of orphans, widows and People Living With HIV (PLWH).To this end, we have been registering people across the 16 local government areas of the state and to create employment for the people as well, particularly in the area of farming.

Let me state that we are poised to consolidate on our success so far so that when next we ask for people’s votes, we can justify what we have achieved in the past four years.

After a glittering military career spanning over 30 years, Gen. John Shagaya (rtd) made his foray into politics as a senator representing Plateau Central Senatorial District of Plateau State from 2007 to 2011. A one-time ECOMOG Commander, and variously head of peace keeping operations in troubled parts of Africa and Asia, Gen. Shagaya ensured that peace was restored in war-torn Liberia, Sierra Leone, Angola, among others. An emblematic trouble-shooter that he was in his days as a soldier, his home state of Plateau is encased in intractable crises of bleeding proportion with none able to guarantee peace. Senator Shagaya speaks about the trouble in Plateau, the collapse of the ‘monolithic North, his botched attempt to return to the Senate, among other issues, in an interview with the Assistant Editor, LINUS OBOGO. Excerpts:

One would have expected that you would have made it back to the Senate, but that was not to be. What would you say went wrong?

What I believe went wrong as at the time was the forcible nomination of a candidate by the governor of Plateau State under whose rule the state lost more lives and property since its creation in 1967. Some of us at that time thought that the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) would have allowed all the candidates of the party to emerge and go through the primaries for the people to choose whom they wanted to represent them. I lost hope in the democratic practice where someone else will be selected over the choice of the people, so I quit PDP and decided to just stay quiet.

The convener of the North East Forum for Unity and Development (NEFUD), Alhaji Bello Kirfi, was reported to have called for the secession of the North from Nigeria, although some others elders disagreed with him. What do you make of this call, especially when considered against the background of the reported American Central Intelligence Agency´s (CIA’s) report predicting that there might be no country called Nigeria by 2015?

Let me say that you have raised two issues and that is the so-called prediction by an American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and secondly, the content of the outcome of the North East geo-political zone of the Northern Elders summit in Bauchi. For the latter issue, I want to say that I was not part of that meeting and I have not read the content or communiqué from the meeting and so, I cannot hold brief for the conveners of the conference. But suffice it to say that some youths of the Southern part of Nigeria have irresponsibly raised the issue of the Delta region seceding from the rest of Nigeria. So, if there is any truth in the report of the Northern Elders summit, it might be in response to the reckless comment of the Niger Delta youths. And I believe that it is as a result of that reckless comment that must have given vent to whatever might be coming from the North.

The President has consistently in the last nine months, in every address of his, maintained that nothing will cause Nigeria to break up. And if nothing else, he cannot be the variable at this point in the country’s history to be used to cause the break up of Nigeria. There have been those comments all over the place and anybody is free to want to make his comment heard.

With regards to comments from America, I addressed a conference of the armed forces about two years ago on the issue. It was just about the time President Olusegun Obasanjo was leaving office and the late President Umaru Yar’Adua was involved in his electioneering, when suddenly, there was an outburst of a prediction allegedly by the CIA that Nigeria would break up in 2015. Following the frenzy, I went to America to do an investigation and it has since revealed that there was no such prediction by the CIA. What emanated from the so-called CIA prediction could have been a sponsored research. There was a young man, an American student, who was working on his PhD programme. The research had to do with global peace, global economy, crises, diseases and global everything. In his research paper, a copy of which I obtained from the university and which I have in my library, he touched on America and a host of countries and continents.

What did he say about America? He said America would soon be destroyed by cancer because of the concentration of chemicals in their diets. Most of what the Americans eat synthetic-based food like vegetables, meats and other dairy products. For instance, it is no longer a thing of surprise to find that a two-month-old broiler being consumed. Eggs are no longer naturally laid by chickens but genetically modified. So, that was that young man’s research on America. When it was the turn of Africa, the young man decided to narrow his research down to Nigeria and Kenya, but with emphasis more on Nigeria. What he set out to say is almost coming to pass with regards to the US and China. China today may be pretending to be feeding themselves, but in actual sense, they cannot feed themselves. They are all over the continent of Africa today looking for farmlands to farm and ship back to their people. And that was exactly what the young PhD student was saying in his thesis.

In the case of Nigeria, all he was saying was that the country was a very powerful sub-regional country in west of Africa. He said Nigeria has managed to take up the responsibility of the security of the sub-region in the ECOWAS and the ECOMOG. And next to Nigeria would have been Egypt, but it has been bastardised because of its involvement in the Middle East crises. Next to Nigeria also, as an emerging power is South Africa.

On Nigeria, he tried to publish from the result of the World Health Organisation research on HIV/AIDS epidemic and concluded that if we did not do anything about it to control the scourge and its spread, the country will lose so much of its population. And if Nigeria loses so much of its population, then the Nigerian armed forces would also be depleted and so, by a certain period, if the situation is not properly handled, the country will not be able to perform the sub-regional watch-dog it is known for today. He also dealt with corruption and so many things that had to do with Nigeria.

But some mischievous Nigerians just took one line from the thesis and went to town with it. It is akin to those who never read Salman Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses, only to be the first to go to the streets in protest against the book. I have read the book three times and I can tell you that unless you studied English or literature, you cannot understand what the author is talking about. Yet people who never went to school started carrying placards on the streets. Unfortunately, our politicians decided to just pick up one line from the thesis and went to town that the CIA predicted that there will be no country called Nigeria by 2015. It was purely an outcome of a research work by a university student. The CIA never predicted anything of that kind.

What will make Nigeria to be no more is the inability of our leaders to handle some of the security issues and other challenges confronting us as a nation and blaming them on others. That is why when a man has a problem in Kano, he blames it on the President. When there is a problem in Jos, he blames it on religion and when there is a problem in the Delta region, it is blamed on Abuja. There is a growing tendency that when something happens in your state, you look for a scapegoat somewhere to hang it on.

With due respect to the Yoruba, they have the most learned Islamic clerics in West Africa today. Do you find any religious crisis in the region? My answer is no! The reason why there is no religious tension in the South West is because of the high degree of literacy. The Yoruba respect each other’s right to religion. That explains why they inter-marry and still practise their different religions. While the Yoruba can fight and set themselves ablaze if it has to do politics, they will definitely not disagree and go to war on the basis of religion. That says a lot about their level of sophistication. The North is not more Islamic than the Yoruba. Whenever there are Christian festivities like Christmas or Easter, you will find their Moslem brothers and sisters celebrating with them and vice versa. Why is this not obtained in the North? The reason is simple, illiteracy.

The crisis in the Northern Nigeria today is illiteracy. This has fuelled much of the trouble plaguing the region. As we speak, I am yet to find a professor of Islamic Religion from the North. There is none. Knowledge is grossly lacking and illiteracy stalks the region like an incubus.

There is one Bishop Josiah Fairon of the Anglican Communion, Lokoja, an ex-military school boy. He was my junior in the military school. He holds PhDs in different areas of studies including Islamic religion. Yet he is a Christian cleric. He can discuss the Koran with the Sultan of Sokoto on an equal footing and knowledge. The Catholics also have a man who is well learned in Islamic knowledge in the person of Bishop Mathew Hassan Kukah, the Bishop of Sokoto. He is a Master’s degree holder in Islamic Religion. This is an addition to the PhD he holds. The truth is that once Nigerians realise that there is value in education and pursue it vigorously, we will understand ourselves better.

The North is today believed to be at cross purposes with one another or a region of a babel of voices, leading to the argument whether there still exists what was once a monolithic North. Was there ever such a bloc and if so, what may have gone wrong?

I am now 70 years old. And I am old enough to be able to understand and to have seen the politics of Nigeria, the politics of the North and other parts of the country. By 1960, I was already a young man standing on a parade ground to be part of the Nigerian armed forces that ushered in Nigerian independence on October 1, 1960. So, one has seen and heard a little bit of what it used to be.

There is one question we need to ask ourselves and that is, why is it that from 1953 till date, the Middle Belt decided to have a voting relationship, a political relationship with the South West? There was the United Middle Belt Congress/Action Group, a relationship which started in 1953, yet there was Northern Nigeria. The situation will be likened to what I described earlier in the Delta region, the Isaac Boro uprising of 1964. The youths of the Middle Belt of the early 40s and 50s believed that they were not being adequately carried along in terms of involvement in the administration. So, they discovered that in the South West, there was value, knowledge and understanding. But in the late 50s and early 60s, when Sarduana discovered the move by that geo-political zone, what he did was to get closer to the Middle Belt and he found out what was likely to be a revolution that would take part of the North to align with either the South West or the South East. When he discovered what the problem was, he drew the leadership of the Middle Belt in people like the late Joseph Tarkar, Paul Unongo, the late Sunday Awoniyi, Abdulraman Okene, among others, closer to him.

Having brought them closer to himself, he decided to send them to universities outside Nigeria to acquire more education and come back to form a very good link between their communities and the administration of Northern Nigeria. That was how he handled the issue and that was why a lot of the Middle Belters respected the late Sarduana. Even though he was a Moslem, he was the leader of the North who respected everybody and treated everyone equally until the coup of 1966 consumed him. His most trusted person was his principal private secretary, the late Sunday Awoniyi, a Christian. Each time the late Sarduana travelled to Israel, he would buy the latest version of the Bible for Awoniyi. He would tell Awoniyi: ‘Your God is a good God. Stay close to Him’. There was nothing people didn’t do for Sarduana to sack Awoniyi because he was not following him to the mosque on Fridays. But the Sarduana said no, because he felt there was one God and there is still one God and there shall be one God. So, when I hear people speak about monolithic North, I come to the conclusion that it is used for cheap acceptability.

Since 1967, when Gowon decided to break northern Nigeria into six states with six more from the South, bringing it to 12 states and subsequent state creation, each state has been ruling itself. So, the so-called monolithic North will not arise again. Only leaders who lack the initiative will want to go on hanging onto something which no longer exists. Even though others may think differently, that is what I think. I was a Minister for Internal Affairs for five years and I was the first Christian to be in that ministry for five years. The point I am making is that for those five years, I was the chairman of the inter-religious committee and I made sure that through dialogue and understanding, the North and the South West observed Sallah on the same day. Until 1985, the North would not accept the sighting of the moon of the South West. So, there were two Sallahs and different Sallah holidays. It took a lot of understanding to manage the situation. We need that kind of understanding today.

When Izalla Moslem sect wanted to create problems in 1982/83/84, no one knew who they were and the only way we could destroy the Maitasine sect was to acknowledge that there was a sect called Izalla. We recognised Izalla and we gave them a certificate and told them that they could practise but they should make sure that JNI and CAN knew who they were. When we did that, Maitasine disappeared. The Izalla was fighting for recognition and as soon as they did that, they sheathed their sword. They have their headquarters in Jos which is a Christian state. So there is value in respecting people and knowing their worth. Again when in 1987, there was this big religious crisis in Northern Nigeria and I was made the chairman of Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC), I had the responsibility to handle the issue and I worked with people from other religions.

I remember then that we were desirous to be in the OIC, but the timing was wrong. We said since we were still suspicious of one another, it was better we pulled out and return to the status quo as an observer country. That was the decision at the time. But the question is, who launched Nigeria into an observer status of the OIC? It was General Yakubu Gowon (rtd), who was a Christian head of state and I saw nothing wrong with it because as human beings, we must recognise the existence of each other.

If OIC was handled the way you explained it, why was it alleged to have caused the resignation of the former Chief of General Staff, Commodore Ebitu Ukiwe (rtd), from the IBB-led military junta?

What happened then was high level politics which I am incompetent to speak on. That was not the reason. Unfortunately, Gen. Sani Abacha is now late, but if he were still alive, then he could contradict me. What happened was that there was conflict as to who truly should be number two and it had nothing to do with the OIC. Ukiwe, as the Chief of General Staff, was the number two, that is second in command to Babangida, but Sani Abacha would never recognise him as number two. He believed that as the Chief of Defence Staff, he should have been number two. So that was the high level politics that was going on then. Ukiwe lost out because something happened, and it is that something that you should investigate.

Was that what obtained in previous military regimes before your time, lack of respect for hierarchy?

The answer is no, which was why I said that at that time, there was crisis of leadership. You can go as far back to Gowon’s regime. He had just spent a few hundred days then and there was confusion as to whether his regime would survive or not, because of the killings in the North and part of the West, so there was that lack of confidence. When Gen. Gowon was in the saddle, the number two man would have been Brig. Ogundipe. But he gave an order to a corporal to do something and the corporal told him that he could not take orders from him. Immediately he told Gowon that he could not be his number two, since an ordinary corporal could tell him that he could not take orders from him. So Gowon sent him as High Commissioner to London. Again, when the cloud surrounding that administration settled, Gowon then took the next most senior military officer, Admiral Akinwale Wei. So, there was respect for hierarchy. When the late Gen. Murtala Muhammed took over as head of state, he took the most senior military officer as his deputy, that was Gen. Olusegun Obasanjo. When Murtala was assassinated and Obasanjo took over, the next most senior was not Shehu Musa Yar’Adua. It was Theophilus Danjuma. But Theophilus said since Murtala was assassinated, it would be better to give the position of number two to someone from the region where Murtala came from to assure them that the administration meant no harm. That was why I said that Abacha and Ukiwe’s situation was peculiar. Ukiwe is alive, so he can speak for himself. The highest sense of discipline was observed throughout the military administration and especially under IBB. If there was none, there would have been no way that IBB would have dismissed a colonel for refusing to account for N300,000 travelling allowance that he collected.

The North appears to be opposed to the inclusion of the six geo-political zonal structure in the constitution. Is there anything the region is afraid of?

Unfortunately for the North, the six geo-political zonal structure is in the military decree. It will be interesting to know the particular individuals that are sharing these extremist views. You can’t say that all the 19 Northern governors will be speaking with one voice. It is not true. Plateau State may not share in that. If the Delta region fought for self-governance to the extent that they carried arms in 1964 and today they have three states, Delta, Bayelsa and Rivers, why should someone wake up and say that they must go back to former Eastern Nigeria? Is it possible? If the Middle Belt, the United Middle Belt Front and the Borno Youth Movement which did not also want to believe that they belonged to the Hausa/Fulani groups, because the Borno Empire believes that they are more Muslims to the core than the Hausa/Fulani who were conquered by Usman Dan Fodio. That problem still exists; hence the Shehu of Borno would not accept 100 per cent the authority of the Sultan over him. Is the person advocating for a return to the old regional structure speaking the minds of everyone? These are conflicting issues. That is why we have to understand the standpoint of whoever is commenting on an issue.

As former ECOWAS Commander, you put your life on the line to bring about peace in the West Africa sub-region- Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast and other troubled spots in Africa. How does it make you feel to be described as a commander who ensured peace for others but has no peace in his own homestead?

Well, I have always admitted before the media that I share in the shame of Plateau for three reasons: having served my country and other parts of Africa all my live, ensuring that there was peace in Liberia, Rwanda, Angola, there is no peace in my own home, which is Plateau State. It is quite a shame. The second reason is that the man who administers the state today, Governor Jonah Jang is a retired colleague of mine in the armed forces where you would think the highest discipline and respect for human lives should be sacred and therefore would have been called to order by his GOC or the president, were he still in the armed forces, yet he appears clueless and helpless and cannot be called to order. It is a thing of shame.

The third reason is, as a Christian who is God-fearing and who believes in the faith I uphold, that human live is sacred, and yet I see lives and property being destroyed and I cannot do anything about it, all in the name of democracy. So I also share in the shame.

On Sunday September 16, Lagos top socialite and fabric merchant, Alhaja Chief Mrs. Basirat Olayinka Ojugbele, had a fabulous party by the swimming pool at her swanky home at Zion Estate, Lekki-Ikate Elegushi. It was a grand birthday bash to mark her 60th year on earth.
In attendance were the crème de la crème of society folks. A roll call of guests indeed included the high and mighty. These influential friends flocked around her and poured encomiums on her, as she celebrated this day of joy. Alhaja Basirat Olayinka Ojugbele is the Chief Executive Officer of ‘Bayinkus International’, a foremost fabric outfit on Lagos Island. A prominent Action Congress of Nigeria Woman Leader in the Ijaiye-Ojokoro area of Lagos, Mrs. Ojugbele is the Borokini Adinni of Alakuko Central Mosque Lagos, the Yeye Gbegba-Aje of Owode town and the wife of famous city estate developer Chief Lamina Ojugbele. She spoke to Paul Ukpabio.

Congratulations on your 60th birthday celebration. It was indeed an assembly of politicians, business tycoons and lots more. How would you define that particular moment in your life?

I was so excited with the guests who came around. I had wanted a few number of people at my birthday; maybe 60 guests but the number turned out big and I think that is a sign of compassion on the part of my friends. But above all, I thank God Almighty for giving me the grace to see the day. All praises and honour goes to Him. Without God, I wouldn’t be 60. I also thank my children for being there for me. Again, what can I say, but to keep thanking Almighty Allah? I will always thank Him because He is the all merciful and benevolent, I will always thank Him.

Can you tell us a bit about your journey of life through business, marriage and raising a family?

My life is one endowed with the grace of God. I started facing challenges of life at a very tender age. I remember that my mother was the only person we had. We lost our dad at a very early age and we had to cope with a very industrious and enterprising mother who struggled to raise us all. At that particular time, the highest we could get was a G-4 certificate. So, I had one. When my mother said she couldn’t send us to university, I had to face the challenges of life with a rare vigour.

The first place I worked was a company called Bugat International Ltd as secretary to the CEO. I was at Bugat for two years before leaving to start my own business with a very little amount of money. I thank God that I was able to increase and record success in the business I embarked upon. Nobody helped me except God. And the same God was the one who helped me to train all my children. I lost my husband at a very tender age. That is my first husband; he was a very, very responsible man: kind, caring and a loving husband. I lost him when I was 37 and that means I was still very young at the time. I couldn’t just sit down and watch my beautiful children suffer.

I had to sow my oats in order to guarantee their future (She had her first son, Kayode-Olajide-Ojugbele, a property expert in VI; second son, Hon. Tunde-Olajide-Ojugbele, an ACN leader in Amuwo Odofin; Miss Oladunni-Olajide-Ojugbele, a top banker with Stanbic IBTC; Miss Morayo-Olajide-Ojugbele, a senior banker with WEMA Bank and Demola Ojugbele, her last child who is now in an Ivy-league school). I can say I started my journey with the special grace of God because there was nowhere to go then. It was in the course of my life activities that I met my second husband, Chief Ojugbele whom I had a son for. He is equally a great man. I thank God that today, not that I have a lot but I am contented with what God has given me. I have my own house, I have four successful graduates who are doing well in their chosen fields and my business is not wavering. I brought all my children up successfully; I was the one who sent them all to their various universities in London. I was working and all the money I had was used in raising them. So, that is why I said, I am very happy to see that day. To see all my children sit beside me to say something about me. I really felt like shedding tears. It is a rare honour and privilege because nobody helped me except God.

What were the good things you missed with the death of your first husband?

Ah! I miss his love o. I haven’t seen anyone that I can compare to him. Alhaji Oladejo-Olajide, my late husband, was a very caring husband and father and business man. He was a man of good conduct, a disciplinarian and a focused business man. For every situation we find ourselves in life, we can only thank God. I miss his caring attitude but to God be the glory, I found an achiever in my present husband, Chief Ojugbele.

Was his death an accident or natural?

God knows everything. I can’t say this was what led to his death, but I will only say I thank God for his life. I know wherever he is now; he is okay with his God and would not be ashamed of what God has done for his children. I hope I did a good job on his behalf. After his demise, some years later, I married Chief Ojugbele.

What lessons did life teach you after you lost your first husband?

The first lesson is this; it is not easy for one person to raise children. If it was to be so, God would have created Adam without Eve. It is not easy for a woman to raise five children and all of them become successful. It can only be done with prayer and hard work. The holy books describe children as gifts from God. If God refuses to give you His gifts, what can you do to Him? But if you are blessed with lovely children, then you must pray to God to help you spare and shape them.

You have to be prayerful, you must be a prayer machine because nobody wants you to succeed in the first place unless you face your God and say “God, this is what I want my children to be”. If you leave them alone, they will go astray. You need to commit them to God’s hands and keep rededicating them to the glory of God. For me, my tool is prayer, discipline and faith in God. I have been used to prayer since my youth. I can fast and pray for seven days non-stop. And if I pray for seven days, with fasting, God grants me my request. If it is going to come to pass, I will see it. So, I am used to it. Prayer is my way of life.

But you are a Muslim, why are you so fascinated with prayer and fasting? You even quote the Bible well?

Of course, we are serving only one God now. Our God is not different; it is our translation that is different. The way we call God in my own religion might not be the way you call God in your own religion. But, we serve the same God. A common God, God hears all the languages. He is a universal God. The only thing that I cannot do is to worship idol. I cannot worship idol, but if you invite me to the church, I will follow you down there. If I am called to a mosque, I will be there. Why? We serve the same God but our translation is quite different.

Many of your friends call you ‘Margaret Thatcher’, why do they call you this special name?

(Laughs), they call me that name because I don’t tolerate rubbish. My life is very simple. Number one, I detest people telling lies. I don’t like to dribble people. I am a straight-forward person; so, if you do anything I don’t like, I tell you straight to your face. I tell you I don’t like it and I will not take it from you. I don’t pretend. If I don’t like you, immediately you will know that I don’t like you, there is no room for pretence. All my friends know me for that, you know we have a lot of people who pretend and act as a chameleon. They are angry with you yet they pretend. For me, that is not it. They will say ‘one is too harsh’. No, I am not too harsh o. I am a very straight-forward person. If you commit a breach of attitude towards me, I will tell you immediately that I don’t like what you did. And once I move out of that environment, it ends there. I don’t backbite and I don’t pretend. I am glad I am like that and I am not praying to change my attitude.

I don’t like destroyers. At the party, Mama Oloto (Buhari Oloto’s wife) noted that I will never support any act of viciousness against my fellow human beings. We have been friends for over three decades and we have not quarrelled for a day because she understands me. I really cherish Alhaja Sadiat Oloto, she is a friend indeed and my darling sister, Alhaja Biodun Ninalowo. More than 30 years now that I have been with Biodun Ninalowo, nobody has ever settled any quarrel for us. These are people who understand me and they know I don’t tolerate nonsense and I don’t tell lies. And I will not go anywhere to be backbiting against you or say rubbish about you. I will rather say it in your presence, that this thing you are doing is not good. So, people accept me for that. I am a disciplinarian and people like us are not to be liked by mundane people but I don’t care. Once my God likes me, what more do I need?

You are also reputed to be one of the closest leaders to the Vice Chairman of the party in Lagos West Senatorial District, Cardinal James Omolaja Odunmbaku, who is fondly known as Baba Eto. How would you describe him?

Baba Eto is my father. Baba Eto is a great person. He couldn’t be at the party so he sent a delegation led by Alhaji Dotun Adegbola and Hon. Adefolabi. Yes. I appreciate him so much; he is a loving and caring leader. I don’t know how I can describe him. If you have any problem and you go to him, he will solve everything. What I cherish about Baba Eto is his disarming act of humility. He is a man of service, and I can tell you his middle name is humility. I will tell you a story about him: one day we were on a journey to Osogbo and we ran into a heavy traffic that lasted till midnight. That was the day I started appreciating that man. We were about 40 vehicles in a convoy, and I don’t know the exact place Baba Eto stopped us that day. I don’t know that destination. I just saw that he stopped us and he came down with two of his aides. They went into the suburbs of the area to buy bread and water because they knew we were hungry and thirsty. He bought it for us with the soft drinks and water and he started sharing the bread and water to all of us from vehicle-to-vehicle. I have never seen that kind of display of humility by a big man in my life, and that is why some of us politicians in Lagos, appreciate him a lot. Some think he is taking money but I think he is actually the one spending his money.

Baba Eto is a mobilizer. He is a peace ambassador and I congratulate our party for having such a very fantastic man in our midst. I think political students will need to carry out a thesis on him to understand the kind of intelligence he uses to dispel quarrels.

What can you say about the relationship between Baba Eto and his political mentor Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu?

Baba Eto can never joke with Asiwaju. Okay let me tell you another story that will shock you. One day, I was with Baba Eto and he was preparing for an outing. But something happened that day that baffled everybody about this man. His phone rang and when he picked it, do you know Baba Eto knelt down without seeing the person physically? Just a phone call, eh! He nearly prostrated for the person. I was asking who the caller was, and they said it was Asiwaju that Baba Eto was talking to.

What kind of loyalty is this? What kind of dedication is this? I asked myself. Baba Eto is a loyal man to the core. And I know that Asiwaju appreciates him in return. And Baba Eto is a mobiliser, I am saying it and I can say it anywhere. He always sends us to mobilise; he is a real good leader. He openly says it,  that what Asiwaju did for him is awesome and that he really appreciates Asiwaju. That Asiwaju did a lot for him and that he can never forget. He said further that even though he is still active in politics, if by chance he leaves politics today, he will never practise politics in any other party again. That he will retire to his church for his ecumenical activities.

Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, on his part, hates to see poverty. He is a great man. No one goes to him in want and comes back frowning. If you meet him with tears, you will surely come back with a big laugh. You will come back with happiness. One of my sons is a classical example and he is the reason I went deeper into politics than this. I used to do it before but not as deep as this. So, that is what makes me to appreciate him and to start  spending  my fortunes on ACN legacy in Lagos because I don’t know what I can give Asiwaju and I feel that is the only way I can pay him back by building upon his philosophy of developing people. He is a great man, a rare breed who never sees anything too big to give out.

Come 2015, what do you see happening in Lagos?

Aaah, awa naa la’ama mu (We are the one to get it). Yes, we are taking the leadership again. Other parties are on permanent holidays. The PDP people are just making jest of themselves, they can’t do anything. They are fast asleep.

At 60, how do you make yourself still radiant and beautiful?

(Laughs heartily)! You know, as a woman you have to comport yourself, you don’t need to flirt about and likewise, you don’t need to put anything on your mind that will wear you down. If you have any problem, think about it just for a short while, then forget it so that it won’t wear you down. Thinking doesn’t stop anything. If you think from now till tomorrow, it can’t stop the problem; the only thing you can do is to pray to God to solve the problem for you. So, I don’t think much. And I am not that kind of person who abuses my body. You know, as a woman you have to keep this body (hits her shoulder with a sense of pride). I can see some of my mates who are wayward. The second thing is that, some people will have problem and they wear it on their faces. I think it is problems of such magnitude that wear the heart down and dry the beauty of the skin. We call it the burden of the heart, and that alone is something that can wane the beauty of your skin. I take life as it comes, I count my blessings rather than blaming God and human error for circumstances that shape my destiny.

Can you recall the most challenging period of your life?

Hmm! What I can call the most challenging moment of my life was the day I lost my mother. She was such a caring mother and a very enterprising person. She struggled hard for us to succeed. She died about 13 years ago. She took the pain to cater for us after our dad passed away. My mum has a Hausa blood; she is from Kaduna while my dad is from Ikorodu. But I have actually never been to Kaduna, even though I knew my mum came from there. But I am proud of her lineage all the same.

Do you visit the Gym?

No, I am not cut for it. But I watch what I eat. You know I fast a lot, so that alone keeps me fit and trim.

Your best meal?

I like rice and vegetable soup. I take vegetables a lot.

What about wine?

At this age, why are we taking wine again? Before, I took red wine but not for now. Even yesterday, when I popped my birthday wine, I had to dilute it with lots of water before I could drink it. You know most women are rejecting wine now, they don’t take it any longer. That was why I bought enough of those foreign drinks you saw at my party yesterday.

So, why are they rejecting wine?

It affects the body now, even from the production base, it is measured and they drink it in moderation. Unlike our culture here where we take everything in excess. We can even drink one bottle and that is what is killing us.

What is your fashion sense?

I have been a fashion freak since my youth. I like both traditional and English dressses. I have done a lot of travelling during my business days and I am familiar with many fashion cultures around the world. Not one that I cannot wear, I buy anything that fits me but I love traditional kaftan a lot.

You have a role model and mentor?

Talking of mentorship, I think I like Princess Rose Osipitan, MD/CEO Rain Oil Ltd. Aside the fact that she is my friend, I like her attitude to life. She is a person like me. She is not perturbed and can’t be moved by any act of viciousness. She is strong, bold and beautiful. She is an epitome of intelligence: brawn and beauty. I also appreciate America’s Hillary Clinton for her diplomatic courage.

What is your tourist destination like?

The United States of America and the United Kingdom, those are the countries where I raised my children educationally. They are like my second homes.

 Lastly, an advice to women generally

For those going into marriage, I will advise them to pray to God to give them their own husband. That is the most important prayer and they should endeavour to take good care of their

Bishop David Eberechukwu is the Anambra State Chairman of the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) and the General Overseer (GO) of Overcomers Bible Ministries, Nigeria, with branches in other countries of the world. For the first time in years, he bared his mind on a lot of issues concerning PFN, Christians and his life as a Christian. In this encounter with Odogwu Emeka Odogwu in Nnewi, Bishop Eberechukwu spoke on the insecurity in the country, his philanthropy  and calling, among others. He also disclosed why he has never bought a car since 1991. Excerpts:

Who is Bishop David Eberechukwu?

 I prefer answering ‘Brother’ because I cannot forget how Jesus met me and how I gave my life to Jesus Christ. So, I like answering Brother Eberechukwu. But I know that by ordination, I am Bishop David Eberechukwu.

Our ministry is Overcomes Bible Ministries. It has three arms, namely Overcomers Bible Institute and Seminary. It is an arm which we use by God’s mandate to train ministers, pastors for the work of the ministries.

We do that free of charge and we have operated since August 1991. We started it out of an encounter I had with Jesus Christ when He visited me and told me that I should not sell His word. I complied, and God has been faithful to His word.

We have graduated 787 pastors/ministers of the gospel from there in various levels as the case may be. Free tuition, free accommodation. I thank God for what He is doing with that arm of the ministry. The other one is Overcomers Bible Church.

How come everything in the institution is free?

That is the mandate of God. He has used people that love the kingdom to support whatever we are doing. People that obey the word of God, that if you can give a cup of water to God’s servant, that you will by every means get your reward. By the grace of God we have branches in Anambra, Port Harcourt and Abuja and other places outside Nigeria. God has been helping us.

Overcomers Bible Church is another arm of the Overcomers Bible Ministries. It is a growing church as well, with headquarters in Anambra. Then we have an outreach for crusades and missions. My wife has her ministry focused on children. It is called Children Gospel Commission. She organises bible quiz exclusively for children during the August long vacation. It is always a month-long activity in August; dedicated for studying the bible.

Did you jump into the ministry or you started as Bishop?

I started in a little way after my graduation from Cornerstone University, Nigeria campus. I read Special Education Management and Missions. Most of the things I see myself achieve in life and the ministry is nothing but miracles, and I give God all thanks and praises.

My education is also a miracle because without God’s mercy, I wouldn’t have been anybody. My struggles in life wouldn’t have also achieved much for me, but for God’s mercies.

I have an award of PhD from Cambridge University and I was consecrated Bishop five years ago by the Wesley Synod Kent England, comprising a college of bishops, numbering over 5,000 from all over the world; they operate a university called Saint Thomas Abaket University, Kent England.

  Why are you not preaching prosperity like other overseers in your ranking?

 Well, I don’t believe in any preaching of prosperity in my ministry. What I received is the gospel. The gospel is all about the kingdom. The kingdom is all about a king and the king is all about Jesus Christ. He died and resurrected. He is the King of kings and Lord of lords, and He liveth forever more.

If we preach about the resurrected Christ, everything would be added – prosperity is there, health is there and everything that one would need in this life is there. But above all, you’ll have eternal life. So, if I am preaching the whole gospel, then I won’t lack. There is no sense in taking a part of a whole as your anchor point when you have the whole.

  I see prosperity preaching as mailing the gospel through envelops. Prosperity is one envelope; healing another envelop and so on. It makes no sense. The whole gospel carries all the potentials that would make one dwell in the supernatural. And once you are in that realm, everything is made possible for you by God.

But you are wealthy, with cars, magnificent church edifice among others?

No! It is not like that. Appearance is deceptive they say. I have told you that when you preach the full gospel, everything will follow. When you don’t preach to merchandise, you preach the word as the word is. God will cause the blessings to come. If you preach to mercandise, people will know because it is a matter of time, and you wil be exposed. I have seen people that came up with prosperity preaching or merchandising the gospel, but today they are no where. But if you are preaching the right gospel without diversion, the Lord will bless you.

But it would be at God’s own time not yours. I started preaching sleeping on the ground. When I answered the call, I didn’t go out with anything, but my bible. The first place I pastured I slept on the ground from early 80’s to 89. It was somewhere around 1991 that I started putting foam on the ground.

Let me tell you, if you preach this gospel the way it is supposed to be, the Lord will visit that person at the appointed time. So, at the appointed time, God started to embarrass me with blessings. Every preacher of the gospel of God must be tested, and after God must have tested the person, He would start to bless the person if the person remains faithful. I don’t believe that God would allow His messenger to be static when people in the secular world are promoted daily from one level to the other.

 So God promotes His workers accordingly. No evil servant is promoted with queries everywhere in his or her file. That is the way it is with the gospel. If somebody is preaching the gospel faithfully, one day God will remember that person more than expected. Modecai was remembered at a time. He did something right, but went unrecognised until the appointed time and the king became restless until he blessed the life of Modecai. Since my life of ministry, I have never bought a car.

  All the cars I have gotten in my ministry have always been given to me by people. They would always say take this or that when they must have seen your faithfulness. It’s not a matter of preaching prosperity for crying out loud. When you preach the gospel you preach holiness, you preach sanctification, you preach obedience.

Did you request for the cars or they were simply given to you as gifts?

How can we request? They just do it. We don’t have time to request. You do the right thing and God who knows how to reward the right thing would reward you. I have never gone to anybody to ask for cars. I have never. But I have seen people walk in and say ‘Bishop, have this. The Lord is saying we should give you this. I should give you this.’ I have been receiving cars since 1991 till today and that is the way I am giving them out. They would give me, and I will give out. Ministry is about giving and taking. We grow by giving and taking. As we receive, we give. We are giving and keep receiving.

Do you have any particular regret since you started this ministry?

There are some of the things I’m supposed to do that I did not do. But I believe that the grace of God is becoming sufficient for me. I know that by the grace of God, we should have started preaching the gospel through the printed word, but we have not been able to do that. I pray and believe that God will help us actualise that by giving us a printing press. I had an opportunity, I but did not make use of it. Somebody walked in here and wanted to give us a printing press, but I said no, that wasn’t what I was called for. Another person wanted to give us a machine for packaging water, which we turned down. If I had accepted those offers then, it would have created employment for our youths now and enhanced our income generation too. But God’s desires will come to pass.

If I had started a school aside the Bible School, by now we would have gone far. They promised to help me then, but I turned it down thinking it would distract the gospel, but I have realised it is no distraction. Those are part of the regrets I have. So if I have my life to live again, I would put those things in place. But I have not really missed any of them because I am still young.

What are the challenges you encounter in your ministry?

My highest point is that I depopulate hell and populate heaven heavily. That’s my zenith, because I don’t believe hell should contain more people than heaven. But I don’t have challenges that should persuade me to rely on fellow men. The person I call is God, and I rely on Him.

PFN has a specialist hospital that has gulped millions of naira, how far?

We have this vision to run a hospital to serve humanity because healthcare cannot be neglected in our society. We are building three hospitals in the three senatorial zones in Anambra State. We started building the one for the central senatorial zone at Awka, and then somehow, some unidentified people came and demolished where we have invested over N70 million, both in the purchase of land and other expenses in building the structure. We are looking and we are trusting God that the Governor, Mr. Peter Obi, would one day do something about it. We wrote the governor explaining our predicament.

But, we have another one storey building for our PFN Specialist Hospital, which was commissioned on 15th September, 2012, at Amawbia. It costs us over N100 million and it has 32 private wards and six-bedroom duplex for the medical personnel, as well as an administrative building.  The medical director is Dr. Samuel Ihejioffor. The hospital will be committed to saving humanity as a specialist hospital.

What are the things that you can point to as your achievements As PFN Chairman in Anambra State?

We have achieved a lot. Immediately I took over, we conducted election into the PFN in 21 local governments of the state. We had a football competition for the youths in the 21 local government areas and gave awards to the best three teams and other awards.

The best three players were offered scholarship to the university level. Our women wing has not been as strong as they were before this administration. The women wing now has its presence in the 21 local government areas of the state. PFN, with its teaming population, is not a block to be toyed with at all.

The wife of Pastor Ayo Oritsajefor was here during the women’s convention last year. This hospital, we are determined to complete them one in each zone. We already have a 40-feet container load of medical equipment for the hospital. We believe God that the state government would help us resolve the demolition saga for work to continue.

Your ministry is hosting an international summit. What is it about?

We hosted a clergy/church workers summit from 12th to 14th September, 2012. This is the programme we have been hosting for the past three years now. Over 2,000 participants attended the summit.

  It is all that is connected with the Rhema that God gave to me in 2008. And  in 2009, the Lord spoke to me through the book of Psalm 114: 1-8, where the Bible says: ‘When the Israel went out of Egypt and the house of Jacob from the people of strange language, Judah was in the sanctuary and Israel his dominion. The sea saw them and fled. The presence of God was with them and the mountains were submitting. Every obstacle was submissive.’

They were all submitting to the Israelites because the presence of God was with them. The Lord gave me a command that I should go and order His people back to His presence. That was what gave birth to the summit, which started since 2009.

It is all about a movement that is unbursting the glory of God that has been caged inside the church. There has been revival in the church. It is geared towards training the ministers, packaging the ministers to bring them to the concept that will bring the church to her expectations in accepting the society until the church starts to take over the society. In all the civilised countries we know today, the church transformed them. So we are trying to make way for this presence of God we have been enjoying in the church to start radiating in the society. That is transformation. The church has the primary function of evangelisation, civilisation, and education.

So we are actually looking for a national transformation, bringing a positive impact on our society by bringing experienced men who have been there to show us what is what. So the expectation has to do with spiritual, physical, mental, economy and political. Just like what we are experiencing today in Nigeria. So this year’s summit will bring a lot of changes, not only in the church world, but in the society at large.

 You run a scholarship scheme for pastors. How many are they?

That is what I am telling you. As I am talking to you now, we have over 200 pastors on scholarship. They are being transformed to transform the society. The society cannot be transformed without the church. India was transformed by a man of God who was just a shoemaker.

 South Korea is transformed today because of Paul  Yongi, he was a gift given to them. America was transformed because of Christianity. So, if the church will be mobilising as we are doing to the society, this nation will be transformed in the nearest future. By 2020, Nigeria will never be the same Nigeria of today because the church is mobilising gifts that will transform this nation.

And our target is to meet up with the standard of heaven and rapture. So it is not borne out of so much abundance, but out of the encounter I had with Jesus that has made like-minded people to flock around me to give me support in order to make those things happen. So it is not by power nor by might, but by the Spirit of the living God.

Dont you think the church has failed the society?

We cannot say that the church has failed in the transformation agenda. If the church fails, there will be nothing like Nigeria in the first place. In fact, it is the prayers of the church that has been holding this country from collapsing.

  The church is meant to take over nations and we start from Nigeria, from every domain we are – that is where we are going to. Jesus said in Matt. 28. ‘All authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore, go yee into the world and teach all nations, baptising them in the name of the father, and of the son and of the Holy Spirit.’

 So, it is the right of the church to take from what they have been enjoying inside to affect the society the more, not that they have collapsed completely in the sense that they have not been doing anything. We have been doing something and the evidence is that we are alive today and we are enjoying Nigeria because without the church, this nation would have collapsed. But we want to motivate the church and bring it to the point where they will start taking dominion of their environment, territory and domain.

How have you affected the lives of your host community people through your ministry?

It has been wonderful. We have so much impacted on the lives of Umunze people. Overcomers Ministries have so much changed Umunze and added taste to this community. Through Overcomers, Umunze has been heard about throughout the world.

My cable network programme where I minister to over 150 nations in the world, Umunze is heard and seen every week. African Broadcasting Network (ABN) has projected Umunze. By the grace of God, we are about going on NTA and other networks. We have been a year in ABN. By the grace of God and with the hands of God upon my life, we have so much beautified Umunze.

 We run international church workers summit here, and nations gather. We have done it since 2009. Ministers gather here in their thousands for a three-day training programme for them to go back to do better in their lives and ministries. Umunze as a whole has so much benefited. We have borehole here and we don’t charge money from people to fetch water. One of the most challenging things in Umunze in the 80’s and 90’s was water.

  I know what we suffered here before we got this borehole. I have trained both indigenes and non-indigenes of Umunze. It is difficult to come from another state to come here and hold anything meaningful, but I think integrity has to do that. The PFN chairman of Enugu State is from Anambra State. The PFN chairman in Abia State is from Anambra, the CAN chairman in Abia State is also from Anambra, while the CAN chairman Imo State is from Anambra. So it is not a big deal. There is this notion that if you are not from Anambra State, you become a suspect, whereas Anambra people are everywhere in positions of authority.

   What’s your opionion on the issue of security and unemployment in the country?

 Well, the issue of unemployment is the reason for the fuel subsidy. I am believing God that Nigerians will comprehend the concept of Mr. President’s intention for removing the oil subsidy, which is to create employment for the unemployed. When you talk of the security threat in the nation, it is not unconnected with unemployment.

 We should co-operate with Mr. President to ensure that what will come out of subsidy will be enough to employ our teaming unemployed youths.

 The terrorism issue has been there, and I believe Mr. President and his team are not sleeping. And I told people that what we need to do is to keep praying for our nation. If not the prayers of the church, this nation would have collapsed, and we keep praying, believing that our Lord God in His infinite mercy will direct our president to tackle the issue. The president is doing a nice work, but I think that it should be fine- tuned.

Queen Ure Ukezie the petite, but pretty ex-wife of youthful musician, Soul E, is back in the country and also back into controversy. Before she left last year for the United Kingdom, Queen Ure, as she is popularly called, battled life after a failed marriage. The church business she started with her ex-husband also packed up. But no sooner had she returned from her UK sojourn than she was spotted at Pastor Kris Okotie’s Household of God. It was Pastor Okotie who predicted then that Queen Ure’s marriage to Soul E, wouldn’t last and thus, refused to give his blessing.
Queen Ure, in this interview, says she’s back! She spoke to Paul UKPABIO on why she retraced her steps to Pastor Okotie’s church, her new line of business, her failed church, her possible re-marriage and musical career, among others. Excerpts:

When did you return from London?

A few months ago.

You were in London for a while, what was it all about?

I actually went for two reasons, the first was for vacation, while the second reason was for training. I go for training from time to time abroad. And this time around, it was in the UK. It was an opportunity to continue my self-development and also get some kind of relaxation. I did a little bit of business here and there too.

The last time we heard from you, you were into human development training, are you still into it?

Yes, I’m still into it. It’s called “Dream n Become International”. We are basically into training and coaching. Some people would term it consultancy. Our core areas are service excellence, customer satisfaction and marketing skills. But we train based on the needs of the clients. When we organise our workshops, these are areas we focus mostly on.

You used to be in the banking industry, is your present engagement related to that?

Of course, most of the clients I train are in the corporate world, oil and gas, banking and so on. Sometimes, we work with other consulting companies, we facilitate for some other consulting companies as well.

About your life in the entertainment industry, are you back in it, or you’ve dumped it?

Yeah, the entertainment industry is part of me and I am part of it. I am a full-blown artiste now. Music has always been my number one passion. It has always been part of me. Now I’m doing it fully.

When you said ‘fully’, what exactly did you mean?

Entertainment is the number one thing I do most. I am presently an independent artiste. I am not signed on with any label. I sing. Presently, I have a promo copy which has five songs. I intend to come out soon with an album of 15 songs. I have recorded more than five songs, but I just did this promo copy ahead of the main album. I would be shooting a video for one of the songs entitled, popori, in the next couple of days. Other songs include: I have found love, Ngegere, a better place. I have been working continuously in the studio with good, competent producers and it is a whole lot of fun. Shortly, my video will be on air and that is when I will be back fully. The video goes a long way to support promo copies. It is exciting and wonderful.

Is this your first attempt at having a musical album?

Yes, this is the first attempt at having a musical album, but I have always been writing songs. I have been recording songs in the past, but I did not do anything with the songs. I just kept them in my house. I was always contented with singing in church, I mean singing in the church choir. I was writing for other people and other musicians.

But this is not the first time that I will be showcasing my singing talent. But it is the first time that I am coming out with my work. At least, I still recall that on campus then, I had a musical group. That was at the University Of Jos. I was the leader of a band. It was called ‘The Rubies’. It was an all girls (laughs) stuff. Just four of us. It was a gospel group and any church that I got involved in, I had always found my way into the choir. However, I am not strictly a gospel artiste now. Right now, I’m not limiting my songs to any particular genre. I’m singing everything. Whichever way the inspiration comes, I sing. For instance, the five songs in my promo are all different. In one of the songs, I actually did real rap. So, it is quite a different kind of rap in my own style. There’s reggae, hip-hop, high life and so on.

For me, music is about expressing myself. I have the gift and when you have the talent or gift, you use it. You do it your own way. What distinguishes anyone in anything is originality. I’m someone who believes in excellence. I’m not out to compete with anyone because we are blessed in our different ways.

Isn’t it out of place that you were supposed to be a pastor, but you are abandoning gospel music?

No. When I said I am not doing gospel music for now, I didn’t mean I am abandoning that class of music. Even in this promo copy, the last song is gospel. Moreover, music is a platform to express the soul. It could be spiritual, it could be romantic, whichever way, my music cuts across everything. Man is spirit, we have a soul. So I sing about the body which has to do with the romantic aspect of life. I equally do soul-lifting songs and playful songs.

Any special reason why you are coming out at this particular time?

Like I said, music has always been a part of me. In time past, I was busy doing other things. Now that I have more time, I’ve decided to go into it full blast. Definitely, this is the right time for me to do it.

You said one of the tracks in your new work is entitled ‘I’ve found Love.’ Have you truly found love after your broken marriage to your ex-husband, Soul E?

Love is in me. Love is in all of us. The first love to find is the love for one another. That is why the Bible says: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’. In other words, you can’t love another, unless you love yourself. You have to love God, love yourself and then you can love another.

Do you love another right now?

Of course, I love people not just one. So many people.

Is there a man presently in your life?

Yes, there are so many men in my life.

Is there any particular one that you are emotionally attached to right now?

Well, if you are asking if I am in that kind of relationship, well, I am not and it is not even on my mind.

But why not? Is it because you don’t have men showing interest in you?

No, of course there are lots of men who want to have such relationship with me, but it is not just on my mind. And that is because it is the way I want it for now.

Wherever you find yourself, it seems you court controversy around you. How true is this?

Really?

You were in London not long ago and the news all over the place was that you were involved with Tuface. And there was this salacious photo of you and him, which circulated all over the social media.

(Laughs) Tuface at the moment is happily engaged, so it’s better to just allow him and his spouse build on what they have. All I did was to take a photo with him at the after- party of his show in London and of course, I displayed the photo and there was nothing wrong with displaying that and he’s a friend. I think they just made a whole lot of things out of it. Presently, Tuface is seriously involved, so there is nothing to it between us. He’s a great singer, we all admire him. I admire him and definitely, I will like to do a collabo with him but not now. I have to come out on my own first.

You know, in the past, we had great female singers like the late Christy Essien-Igbokwe of blessed memory and Onyeka Onwenu and people had this notion that if you are into music and you are female, it’s likely you are not responsible. But these are women who have been into music and have distinguished themselves. So, about about females being in music and not responsible, it is not correct. We have other young girls who have been doing well in music and that is encouraging.

How about re-marriage?

Every woman wants to be married, but when a woman is not married, it could be perhaps, such ladies may not have found the person who they think they should be married to. So they hang in there and wait as singles. As for me, any time I want to marry, I will marry. Marriage, to me, is not a problem. For me, it’s not about being married, it’s about being happily married. And then for me, I allow life to flow. If marriage comes, it comes. I flow with life. I allow things to come to me and that is why my music is coming now. It is time and I am ready. So it has flowed to me. I allow things to happen, things flow to me. So if marriage happens to me, why not? I will allow it. It is a beautiful thing.

So what do you tell male admirers who try to woo you?

It’s just natural that every lady has to have those who try to woo her. It’s part of life. There will always be people asking me out and if I feel connected to any one, then why not? I am an African woman, an African girl. I’ll love to have kids, that‘s me, I love family, I believe in family, I’ll love to have my own family, have children, raise a family, it is awesome. I’ll love to have children someday.

We hear that you are back with Pastor Kris Okotie as you have been spotted in his church.

I have been in Household of God church for years. That is where I worship. He is just my pastor.

Pastor Kris disapproved of your marriage which eventually fell apart as he predicted. So, you’ve gone back to his church now, what does that mean?

Kris is my pastor whom I hold in high respect. There is no reason to do a re-think or whatever, about the matter. Since I am not doing pastoral work now, there is no reason why I cannot go back to the church. I need not have to think twice about that. Where else will I go to?

And did he just accept you back?

No, I don’t understand that because, there was no reason as to whether he accepted me back or not, because there was no reason for that. I just went back to my church and I won’t comment about his break-up with his wife. Every church has its uniqueness and everybody is worshipping where they feel connected to serve God. I could worship anywhere, but I feel comfortable with Household of God. God is Spirit. God is everywhere. But there are certain places you find yourself and you feel connected and blessed and God will want you to be there. So that is why I’m there.

How about your pastoral calling and the church you set up with your ex- husband?

My life itself is a ministration. Like Saint Paul said: ‘Our lives are epistles known and read.’ So my life itself is like a book. Ministering or serving God is not only limited to the pulpit. If God gives you the opportunity to serve in that capacity, that is fantastic. I enjoyed every minute of that when it happened.

But why are you no longer pastoring a church?

As I said to you, I just flow with life. Three years of pastoral work have passed and that is it! Jesus Himself did ministry work for just three years. So that is it.

What does being beautiful mean to you?

Beauty, they say, is in the eyes of the beholder, you can choose to see beauty in whatever you choose to see it. To me, beauty is an inner thing. Everyone is beautiful. We are all beautiful in our own ways: But after that, beauty has to come from within. You have to be a cheerful person, a happy person and that has to come from within. If you are unhappy inside, that is not beauty. No matter the tone or volume of your make-up, if you are not happy inside, then you are not beautiful. So, people should be happy and be peaceful. If you are at peace with God and people, then you will be beautiful. Apart from your inner beauty, there is your body and your skin. All that is maintained when you eat well and exercise.

Everything has got to be maintained. People have to eat in a healthy way to maintain their body and look good. I do eat lots of fruits, vegetables and less of carbohydrates, if I must. I hardly eat carbohydrates though. I am not one who does heavy exercise, I do moderate ones.

What do you spend money on?

I spend my money on myself, people, family and friends. I love myself first and then I share with people. I have to wear my hair. Most times, I have my make-up on. I wear my jewelry but not all the time. Basically, I love to have beautiful things. However, I am not much of a materialistic person. There is nothing that I have today, that I cannot do without. There is nothing that I can’t let go, no matter how precious it might be. Being happy is more precious than anything. I can let go of anything! But that doesn’t mean that I don’t love life or that I don’t love beautiful things. I do.

I don’t really take much to people who chase money up and down. Money can only make you a little bit more comfortable, like moving from a small house to a bigger house, or get a bigger car. It doesn’t change who you are, it doesn’t change your state of mind. People don’t know that. Money doesn’t give you the most important things in life. For me, the most important things in life are things you don’t see. Things like peace, happiness, non tangible things that money can’t exchange with.

Despite his popularity and outspokenness, Barrister Festus Keyamo is always quick to say that he does not consider himself a prominent Nigerian. But even more intriguing is his declaration, in this interview with CLEMENTINA OLOMU, that he is not the original Festus Keyamo. He also speaks about his passion for architecture and growing up days, among other issues.

What was upper most in your mind when you were admitted to study Law?

I did not want to study Law originally. I have a passion for architecture, and I still do till date. If I want to put up a building, for instance, I sit down with the architect and argue over and over as if I’m the architect. If I’m driving on the road, for instance, and I spot a beautiful house, I will park by the side of the road, admire and look at the dimensions. This tells you how much I’m in love with architecture.

That is not to say that architecture can overtake Law in my mind. Law is original and something that is still inside of me. The desire to read Law came when everybody around me concluded. When I was in secondary school, everybody around me came to the conclusion that I had to read Law. In other words, people virtually made that decision for me because they saw something I did not see. I then took that decision myself.

It appeared that people around me were my mirror. That decision gripped me like fever and that is the fever that is still shaking me till date; so much that everything I do centres around Law. I eat Law, sleep Law and wake up thinking about Law.

When I started reading Law, my desire was to push the frontiers of Law. I never wanted to practice law as a monotonous exercise. I wanted to practise Law and make it exciting. I’ve tried to do that over the years.

Did it strike you as a student that Nigeria is a country that needs to be redeemed?

I began to look critically at the country and its affairs when I was in my final year in secondary school. I was part of the old system of class one to five. At that point, I began to read newspapers. I began to look at the affairs, listen to arguments about the country and I began to be very critical in my mind. I did not have the necessary tools in terms of education to get some boldness and depth of knowledge to contribute then, but my mind began to swell and I began to get agitated inside.

It was a gradual thing; I don’t think it was one particular incident that turned me around. It was a gradual thing, and it was also one of the reasons I had to withdraw because I knew that I needed a tool like Law to make my firm contributions to national political discourse My degree in Law is one of the greatest assets I have today.

How would you say the return of democracy has helped legal practice in the country?

Law will naturally take its preeminent position in constitutional democracy. But Law will take second position in a military dictatorship because you have a military command. But when you have a constitutional democracy like ours, you can see that over the last 10 years, lawyers have been better off. I say that with all sense of modesty. Not I as a person, but the bigger lawyers have been better off. For small boys like us, we are still managing. This is because in a constitutional democracy, everybody has to depend on Law to unravel and solve problems.

We don’t have a situation where the head of state or the supreme commander will give an order. Every detail will have to be settled in the law court. Even the dispute between a state and the Federal Government, can you image that under a military government? It will be hardly possible to see a state during the military era taking the Federal Government to court. All you had to do was to be summoned by the Armed Forces Council and told what to do the next day. So, it is democracy that is bringing the excitement.

Not the money

If you come to practise Law thinking about money, then you are mistaken. I’m being honest. If along the line money comes, it is a bonus. But really, you cannot come to say you want to promote Law and you are thinking about money, because some of the best decisions in our law books that went to the Supreme Court, I’m sure those clients had no money. Go and ask the lawyers who handle those cases. The best decisions in our law books were cases that were done free of charge because the lawyers had the appetite to want to prove some points and they took up such matters.

The late President Musa Yar Adua wanted to return Nigeria to the system of the rule of law. Are we still on the track?

We are just observing the rule of law as a matter of convenience when the burden is not so much of having to obey or follow a legal process. When it is not too burdensome for government, they find it convenient to follow. When it is burdensome for them and it is shocking against the interest of government, they will always find a way around the issue, either by outright disobedience or some kind of subtle field or quarrel, argument and all that. To me, I think the observance of the rule of law is a matter of convenience for government; not a matter of compulsion.

The judiciary, many people say, is the last hope of the ordinary man. But many are also of the opinion that the judiciary has failed in this regard. What is your take on this?

A revolution is the hope they have, because if you don’t make the court work for them, you are causing trouble. It is as simple as that.

The Economic and Financial Crimes Commission ( EFCC) is in court with the former speaker of the House of Representatives, Dimeji Bankole. Some of your colleagues feel it is a waste of government funds. What is your take on it?

That is their opinion. Law is about opinion.

What eventually became of the case involving the murder of former Minister of Justice, Chiuefe Bola Ige? At a point, you came up with purported evidence on the prime suspect, Mr. Olugbenga Adebayo popularly known as Fryo…

The PDP government in Oyo State woke up one morning and withdrew the case against them. They should be the best people to answer that question.

What eventually happened to Fryo?

I don’t know.

Which has been your best moment court?

There is no one best moment. Every moment you get victory in court is a good moment; one of the best moments. There is no single best moment irrespective of the case. Once you bring a smile to the face of a client, it is your best moment.

Even when they don’t merit victory?

If the judge says you merit it, then you merit it, because after that, you go to God. When the judges are gone, it is God you go to. It is only human beings, only judges, you can see physically to resolve your problems.

What did you do as a child to draw tears to your mother’s eyes?

I can’t remember. I wasn’t a naughty child. I remember one day my mother cried when she said I was not grateful to my parents for taking care of me as a child. I responded by saying that I did not beg to be born. She burst into tears.

And you said you were not a stubborn child?

At home, I was not a stubborn child. I was very hard on principles and I was argumentative in school. Funny enough, I wasn’t a truant or a naughty child, just that this argumentative behaviour is everywhere. At home too, I was argumentative with my parents. Each time I manoeuvred them with arguments, they manoeuvred me with some lashes of cane. Before I knew it, the argument would stop.

I remember having a long argument with my mother one morning. My father got up from the room and was very angry. When he came out, he packed all my books and said he was going to burn them. I was in class three then. He said there would be no more school for me. I cried and pleaded with people to beg him not to burn my books. Looking back now, I say I must have been foolish. I should have allowed him to burn my books. Was he not the one that bought the books? He would have replaced them.

How would you describe your father?

My father is a father to everyone. He loves all his children too well and equally too.

You were your mother’s first male child after two girls. How did she feel about that?

Let me tell that experience. My father is an Urhobo man and a typical one too I’m also an Urhobo boy. The experience my father told me was that after the first and second girls, he did not complain but hoped that a boy would come. Not that he did not like girls. If two boys had come, he would have hoped that a girl would come to balance it up.

According to him, when I came and I was in the hospital, my father said he told God he was going to name his first son Festus because he lost his younger brother as a teenager. So, the one born after him was the original Festus Keyamo. I am not the original Festus Keyamo. My father’s younger brother was the original Festus Keyamo. He died in the 50s and my father liked him so much.

My father said when he walked into the hospital, the nurses went to him saying, ‘Congratulations, Mr. Keyamo, you have a boy.’ He told them to clear from the road. He was going to the baby court. After seeing the baby, he looked to God and said, ‘My promise to you has come to pass. This is the replacement of my brother, Festus Keyamo.’ My father is also a lighter mood person.

How would you describe your mother?

My mother is from a royal home in Illaro. I’m a Prince but I don’t use the title. I’m also a chief but I don’t use the title. I have two chieftaincy titles. From my village, I’m the Umokaro of Uye Kingdom. I’m also the Ogborure of Gbobo Kingdom.

My mother is Yoruba. As you know, Yoruba women are great disciplinarians. She has been a great disciplinarian from youth till now and she is very principled. She is a devout Christian. She devours the teachings of Christ and preaches from house to house.

In those days, intertribal marriages were rare. How did she cope?

My father was born and breed in Illaro. My grandfather was one of the earliest trained nurses and was posted to Illaro General Hospital and because Illaro was also in Western Nigeria then and Delta was part of Western Nigeria. My grandfather was one of those who started the General Hospital with the then Profr Lambo. My father had all his children there. My father and mother were playmates. They knew themselves In Illaro. My father grew up there, so he speaks Yoruba.

Up till now, my parents speak Yoruba at home. In those days, you must be able to speak Yoruba to toast a girl. For my mother to feel comfortable with him, after marrying her, the toasting continued, and he is still toasting her till date.

Going back memory lane, when you were on campus, were you a happening guy?

What do you mean happening?

A guy who loved to be seen and heard…

I was not a waz-up guy.

Were you a ladies’ man or an easy going guy?

Mine was a mixture of everything. I knew when to play and when to work. I combined both accurately.

Who was the first lady you dated?

See me see trouble o. Ha! No o. Lailai. For where?

What attracts you to a woman?

I’m not going to give you the pleasure of a headline today.

How have the challenges of yesteryears prepared you for the position you find yourself today?

I’ve not had it very smooth. I’ve gone through the thick and thin of life. At times, I look at what I have done. With all sense of modesty, I say at times that even a man of 60 years has not gone through what I’ve gone through; the horrible experiences and the pains I’ve suffered, The struggles I’ve had to engage in my life all along, they really prepared me for now. As it is now, there is hardly anything that can subvert me. I’m always firm in my belief.

What has been your greatest challenge in life?

I’ve faced all kinds of challenges. I don’t rate one above the other.

You have several awards displayed here in your office, which do you consider the best?

I started getting awards right from secondary school. All of them are inspiring because each represents different segments of the society.

What do you detest most?

Fake people. I want down-to-earth, ordinary, natural people, because I’m also like that.

How do you know fake people? Most people pretend to be real these days.

I don’t like people who live a life that is not theirs. There are so many people like that these days, and if you scratch the surface, you see nothing underneath. I like people of substance but very down to earth. We are just humans and we cannot elevate ourselves above our fellow man

Many Nigerians are of the belief that most of the EFCC cases against corrupt governors are media matters. What is your take on it?

They are cases celebrated by the media because of the type of people EFCC arrests. They are not ordinary people they see on the street everyday or the type of people police arrest every day. EFCC does not need to celebrate such cases. The fact that they are arrested is news

What happened to the cases that have dragged for as long as eight years?

No one has been left off. No one has have been convicted though, except the one of plea bargain in Igbinedion’s case. But the other ones are still in court. They are going through the usual system. They have nothing to do with EFCC.

If you have to advise President Goodluck Jonathan on the legal aspect of Nigeria generally, which aspect would you advise him on?

I will tell him to amend the law, allow the EFCC to be fully autonomous. The power to appoint and to remove the EFCC chairman should not be solely in the hands of the President. They should amend it and allow the anti- corruption body to function independently and fight corruption independently.

The uproar that greeted the swearing-in of Captain Idris Ichalla Wada as the Governor of Kogi State by the President of the Customary Court on January 27 may have simmered but the bad blood generated by those who stood for due process and the right thing being done has simply refused to thaw. In fact, the bile that attended the day the state infamously had three ‘sitting governors’ still runs deep in the political equation in the state as it has continued to define the relationship between the House of Assembly and the Wada-led administration ever since.

Nowhere is this hate-love association more manifest than between Wada and the Speaker of the Speaker of the House of Assembly, Hon. Abdullahi Bello. For those in the know, the Speaker incurred the ire of the governor for accepting to be sworn into office on acting capacity following a statement by the Attorney General of the Federation and Minister of Justice, Mohammed Bello Adoke, that speakers of the five states affected by the judgement should assume leadership on acting capacity.

Wada was said to have stepped up efforts to get back at those he considers as threat to his administration following his favourable outing at the Federal High Court in Abuja recently. The governor has been accused of encouraging the state legislators to impeach the speaker, especially and other principal officers of the House in order that has men may take over.

According to an insider, the governor is said to have branded the current principal officers of the House as belonging to the era of the erstwhile Governor Ibrahim Idris and thus it is time for him to put his loyalists in charge.

Another claim is that the governor has apparently misinterpreted the constitutional duty of the House to appraise the year’s budget performance as a ploy by the current House to serve as a prelude to possible impeachment proceedings against him from the House.

Wada is also said to be angry that after the Vice President and the leadership of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) had ‘settled’ the political confusion as to who would occupy the governor’s seat following the Supreme Court’s ruling and directed the Speaker to hand over to him, that the Speaker led other members of the House from Abuja to Ilorin to attend a seminar instead of leading them back to Lojoka to welcome him. The governor is said to have resorted to starving the House of funds, a situation that has adversely impeded their ability to carry out their legislative functions.

Again the governor is said to view the Speaker as a loyalist of Jibrin Echocho, who is currently waging a judicial battle to reclaim his purported mandate from the governor. But supporters of the Speaker are quick to point out that the governor’s assumptions are far from reality. They contend that the Speaker did not only fight to ensure that Wada emerged the governorship candidate of the PDP during the last primaries but mobilised the entire Kogi Central to vote enmasse for the governor during the December 3, 2011 election. Besides, the governor was said to have engaged in subtle blackmail against the Speaker with spurious allegations to instigate members of the House to move against him and other principal officers. But discerning members of the House who have worked with the Speaker for about seven months before the advent of Wada remained unperturbed as they perceived it as a sinister move by the executive to cow the state legislature by having the governor’s men in charge.

Not minding the handful of alleged moles in the House, the majority expressed this when they recently passed a vote of confidence on the Speaker apparently to thwart the move by the executive to erode their legislative independence.

A highly placed government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said: “He gives different reasons to such members on why he wants the principal officers removed. To some, he averred that the officers were appointed by the former Governor (Ibrahim Idris) and that he wants to appoint his own.

“To others, sometimes, he opens up that he is unhappy with the Speaker for having the courage to accept to be sworn in as an acting governor in January, 2012 following the Supreme Court’s judgment. He is also angry with him for leading the House to Ilorin for a seminar rather than rallying members to receive him to Government House in Lokoja after the peace parley in Abuja. For others still, he claims that the Speaker and some of the principal officers are Alhaji Echocho’s loyalists and that now that Echocho had lost his case against him at the Federal High Court, they must be removed.

“The final reason for wanting to impeach the Speaker and the other principal officers is the belief that the budget appraisal to be embarked on by the House was a move against his government. This was the dummy sold out to him by the few undesirable members of the House who trade in lies and backbiting for their selfish interests”.

The source added that Wada was being fed with lies by some members of the House who are bent on reaping from where they did not sow.

He said: “The governor’s problems began when he started to hobnob with some members of the House who are out to make curry his favour. This group having realised that the Assembly is not a goldmine as they initially believed decided to blackmail other members, especially the principal officers, for their selfish gain.

“Unfortunately, rather than the governor checking his facts, he began to treat Assembly matters on hearsay based on the information available from the obnoxious informants from the House.

“The speaker who has laboured so much to establish and stabilise this government has now become the number one enemy of the governor. Assuming there are areas where the speaker might err, is it not expected of the governor to call on the speaker who can pass for his son for an amicable dialogue? What is the moral justification for killing the bird that lays the golden egg?”

Another source said that the grand design to silence perceived political enemies in the state is not only targeted at Speaker Bello and other principal officers of the House but also the Chief Judge of the state who swore in Bello against the wishes of Wada and his godfather, Alhaji Ibrahim Idris.

He lamented that “during the peace parley convoked by the Vice President Namadi Sambo in Abuja that led the Speaker to formally hand over to Wada, it was agreed that nobody should be witch-hunted for whatever roles they played in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s ruling, but going by the body language of this administration, it is clear they are not willing to let bye gone be bye-gone”.

The Special Adviser on Media to the Governor, Jacob Edi, when contacted, however, described the allegations as baseless. He said that Wada has no axe to grind with the speaker and other principal officers of the House.

Edi said: “Without mincing words, the Governor of Kogi State, Capt. Idris Wada, is not at loggerheads with the Speaker of the House of Assembly, neither has the executive as a body any problems with the legislature.

“From my opening salvo, even the question is irrelevant. I can tell you confidently that the relationship between the two arms of the government and even the judiciary is very robust and cordial, while the executive is also respecting the tenets and principles of separation of powers as enshrined in the Constitution.

“The allegation of bribe would have even been believable if the governor, assuming without conceding, that the money in question will go to his pocket. I wish to state categorically that nothing like that has happened or will happen in the future.

“Capt. Wada is not the bribe type and I mean in giving and taking. He neither gives nor takes. How can the governor be against the House of Assembly for carrying out their Constitutional role? That’s quite inconceivable for a man that is easily called ‘Mr Due Process’? No way!”

Notwithstanding the position of the governor’s camp, an alleged plot to impeach the Speaker and other principal officers of the House backfired last week in Lokoja. Some members were allegedly encouraged to effect a change in the House’s leadership without any “serious allegation” against them, failed to budge.

One of the lawmakers, Barrister Henry Ojuola, representing Yagba East constituency, confirmed the development to reporters in Lokoja. Ojuola said the retrogressive development was motivated by some “powerful forces” in the state. He noted that the Speaker has done splendidly in his leadership role and wondered why the hurry to hound him out of office. Why using the House of Representatives as an example, he said the House must be allowed to choose and sustain its leaders without any external influence. He said the House had severally passed votes of confidence on the Speaker because of the vast support he enjoys from the members and urged him not to be deterred.

Ojuola said: “The Speaker as at today controls majority support in the House and I am advising those canvassing for his removal to exercise restraint in order to avoid anarchy.”

A member of the House of Representatives representing Adavi/Okehi Federal Constituency, Hon Abdul Rahman Badams, has vowed that the people of Kogi Central would vehemently resist any attempt to impeach the Speaker.

Hon. Badams spoke when political stakeholders from Kogi Central met at Okene to review the security situation in the area. The Special Adviser on Media to the Speaker, Alhaji Ibrahim Isa-Amoka, in a statement, said Hon. Badams called on the Governor Wada-led administration not to compound the present security malaise in the zone.

The statement reads in part: “Hon. Badams said that the government should be told out rightly that the position of the Speaker is zoned to the Kogi Central Senatorial District and Hon. Abdullahi Bello is their choice in whom they are well pleased. He reiterated that any means adopted by the government to impeach Bello for no just cause will be resisted by the people.

“He said members of the National Assembly from the state are contented with the good leadership of the speaker which is characterised by his gentleness, hardwork, honesty and transparency in the discharge of his duties in the House of Assembly so far.

“Hon. Badams said that the federal lawmakers from the state would soon meet on the disturbing development and make their opposition to the alleged impeachment scheme against the speaker known to the state government and political leaders in the state.  He called on those he described as being on a ‘retrogressive path’ to retrace their steps in the interest of peace, unity and development of Kogi Central and the state in general.”

Moreover, political stakeholders in the zone are of the view that any attempt to subvert the wishes of the people by effecting a change in the leadership of the House would further worsen the already fragile peace in the state.

Gen.Emmanuel Abisoye (rtd) and Dr. Tom Adaba may have alluded to the seeming frosty relationship between the governor and the speaker when they advised the governor to work with political office holders from Kogi Central.

The two leaders were part of the high-powered delegation from the zone led by Senator Nurudeen Abatemi-Usman to Lugard House penultimate weekend to discuss the way forward for the current security challenges bedeviling the area with the governor.

Abatemi-Usman’s media aide, Michael Jegede, in a statement, said: “In their separate remarks, Gen. Emmanuel Abisoye and Dr. Tom Adaba expressed confidence in the ability of Wada to pilot the affairs of the state to greater heights, while urging him to work closely with political officer holders from the Central Senatorial district, particularly Senator Abatemi-Usman and the Speaker of Kogi State House of Assembly, Abdullahi Bello.”