Chief Rasheed Gbadamosi who clocked 70 recently in this interview with Edozie Udeze, shares his life experiences, his days as the youngest commissioner (Ministry of Establishment) in Lagos State, his foray into the world of art and creativity, his vision of a better Nigeria; why the private sector should be more actively involved in the industrialisation of the country and what should be done by government and individuals to curb insecurity in the land and lots more. Excerpts…
WHILE you were a commissioner at a very tender age of 24, what were your greatest fears and challenges having found yourself among cabinet members who were much older and more experienced? The commissioners who were there then were ex-ordinary people in the state, well-respected individuals from different professional backgrounds. Among them were Chief Adeniran Ogunsanya and many others. They were very experienced persons. I think what I had going for me was that I was mentally prepared for the assignment. I was making headlines here and there.
At a point I was asked to chair school debates in Lagos State. So, this helped me to find my focus that by the time the IMF debate began I was in full control to take part in it. I was even asked to chair it because that is my forte. I am an economist and it became obvious that I was fully prepared to play my role to the best of my ability.
I was far more competent to do it. In fact, I was in high demand at that time. By the time I became a commissioner the times were better, the cooperation among us was splendid. These were known technocrats, leaders who came into office with the mind to serve; to help the society move forward.
The IMF matter was mainly economic issues and it demanded the attention of a well-groomed economist. In the end the debate was fruitful because we brought all we had into it.
Given the situation in the country today, do you think it is possible for someone to become a commissioner at such a young age as you did?
Hmm…The political class won’t make that possible. They play the game the way they want it. In any case, the average age of a person in politics today is forty. In my own time it was thirty. And so I was able to get there when I did given the circumstances of our own time and age. It is not possible at all because of the numerical strength of the people jostling for positions and other changes in the system over time.
How did your incursion into the Arts begin when you were trained as an Economist?
My incursion into the art came via literature. While growing up, I was in love with literature; with Shakespearean works and so on. I have a lot of John Osband, William Shakespeare, name it, such great literary works of world-renowned authors; they kept my attention focused on literature. It just occurred to me that I was busy reading other people’s works, why not do your own? Why not put pen to paper and produce your own literary works? How about your own work of art? Do your own work for the sake of posterity. All these questions triggered on in my brain for too long. I told myself that the journey of literary expression starts one day. Therefore in pursuit of literary expression and actions you also look for beauty.
In any case, the total expression of actions and issues around you and your environment…By the time I was ready for it in 1961 and I was fully into dances, shows, entertainment, I knew I’d write a play quite soon. Contests in the world then was intense and more of ideological a divide between East and West. Then you were bound to belong to one. Don’t forget we were then in the throes of decolonisation down here in Africa. The world in general was facing the issue of East-West conflict one therefore had to key into it.
Therefore, my incursion into the art then had to dwell on these ideological issues of divide which was a global phenomenon. I was able to get into it and you know in writing plays you need to create conflicts and conflicts make a play what it is. By the time one read a bit of Marxism, other ideas began to come in too. There was great influence of socialism influence on literature, on Karl Marx, Leninism and so forth.
Of course, there were plenty books that I had on socialism and literature. So, what is the effect of it? Yes, I think I had seen enough plays by top playwrights of the 19th and 20th centuries to be able to do my own. And so I told myself, let me use my own background knowledge to do my own play.
You brought all that to bear in your first play Echoes from the Lagoon?
Yes, I had seen many plays, not for too long though, to be able to settle conflicts, and get scenes that appealed to the audience. In it, I recalled what it was like while growing up and then Echoes from the Lagoon picked from such experiences and background.
However, I was not any of the characters in the play. No, I wasn’t. But I know sufficient enough to be able to do it, to produce those characters in their best elements. This was why I dwelt on drama. Drama is all about conflicts. I was well-disposed towards drama because in it, you dwell on the totality of life and other issues pertaining to it. In it, you deal with protagonists and antagonists; you look at life in its barest epitome. This is why by the time a play is on stage, it is different from prose and poems and other genres of literature. So, conflicts are always there in this life and in Echoes from the Lagoon you can see the totality of life itself.
As an insider, do you think the Bank of Industry is fully committed to its role in the Nigerian economy?
It is relevant. In an economy of this nature it is important in all aspects of production; Nigeria inherited the philosophy of this sort of economy. The role and the lure of the private sector has always been there. People have to take loans and the industry has to help entrepreneurs and businesses grow through loans and other facilities needed to lubricate the economy. This is what we discovered on time, that left alone, the private sector might get tired on time.
Even the Japanese economy and the Asian Tigers were at a point redefined. I found myself then joining to say we needed to work on our own infrastructural facilities. We therefore put the finances together to have what we have today as Bank of Industry.
Then do you think the economy cannot do without it?
Well, it was inevitability. Bank of Industry is there to lend money to those who need such facilities and therefore it is vital to the economy. The economy has to benefit tremendously from it. This was why we had to start and then ensured that the facilities were properly put in perspective. The early thing I learnt in life was to begin to save situations on time and from there begin to build for tomorrow.
The other thing was that we needed to promote things based on that culture. That was how it all began and many people who have benefited from it are testimonies today.
Federal Government intends to remove the final subsidy on kerosene. Do you think this is a wise decision?
It is crazy to subsidise things that are not totally essential. The history of economic development has taught us that when you subsidise some activities that can be undertaken by you and the private sector, it eats deep into government. Then why must government do it? We know in the final analysis the equilibrium will be achieved if government is not involved in it.
If there are investments in other areas of the economy allowing the education sector to grow for instance, then you grow enough to make the economy buoyant. Then the catalytic impulses would be how you organise the manufacturing sector or how you organise the education sector to get manpower to run the society.
But for God’s sake government has its own short period in office. It has taken things that will help to grow the economy and encourage the society. So, I don’t think it is time to continue to dwell on subsidy of kerosene. The capacity for the operation of the private sector has expanded phenomenally. Even during the time when socialism literature says that the private sector should have ownership of everything, you found out later that this was mischievous because what is owned by you and I is owned by nobody.
Is that also tied to the government trying to privatise the refineries?
I have chaired several committees on issues of economic importance to the nation. There are many factors. But we can say yes if government in its wisdom wants to do that for the good of the system…well, we have many Nigerians with the requisite education and training to handle it. Why wouldn’t government absolve itself from overburdening itself and other associated palavers in governing the nation? If this is done government will have time to face other functions of governance. I don’t think that the private sector will be bothered about road construction, provision of water, building of federal universities and so on. Those are the functions of government and it should be given enough space to concentrate on those areas for the better functioning of the system. Those functions are better done that way and there are alternatives in terms of orientation.
But those that have been privatised like NITEL and others have not been functioning…?
Yes, I would say we need to use the functions of the stock market to engage on this issue of privatisation. The stock market is the medium. It is the appropriate channel to do it. It assures that there will be no dominance by individuals. That is number one. Two, the owners of the enterprise shall be guided based on discipline. And if you don’t get it right year one, year two, be patient, there will be men of goodwill, both domestically or even foreigners who can put in money to make sure they make it work. They can invest heavily in it and then make it work.
How do you assess the security situation in Nigeria at the moment?
Ah, sorrowful! Because I don’t think man taking the life of another because of argument or misunderstanding and the like is proper. It is lunacy that some people will wake up one morning and begin to commit murder, attack villages, institutions of worship… I don’t know what led to that sort of degeneration. We had never thought that this sort situation was possible in Nigeria. But it is happening and I am saying that all of us should go back to the drawing board. We should find out what the mindless killings are all about.
Until you finish everybody, what else is there for us to fight over? I am perturbed, to be honest with you.
Can government do it alone?
I am not so sure if it is totally a government affair, to make the situation better. All of us have a role to play, to go back to those days when love, genuine love, ruled our hearts; when tribe or religion had no place in our hearts. I think we should go to the root cause or causes of this problem that we have degenerated to this level.
Look, I grew up in Isale Eko. My father owned an industry, making underwear garments. Very early story of traders coming from all over the place Kano, Onitsha, Aba, Asaba traders came to buy without recrimination. My father took time to give me the best of education you can get anywhere in the world. But I do know that my early schooling was in Lagos and we had students from all over Nigeria. There was love and with people from all over and they were ever so friendly.
Even my mother spoke Hausa because she grew up in the north. And she would do the translation for my dad and this made things easier. The traders were given a bit of credit facilities. And they would go and come back with their children and we all would stay together. We never thought about the difference between us. There was Audu here, Okeke there, you know, very lovely people. I still remember their names. I only left some behind when I went to secondary school and from there to the university. There were bonds of friendship across Northern and Eastern Nigeria, in the quest for prosperity. And the economy was doing well, at least there were indices of growth and everybody was happy.
The cities were beginning to grow, you know. People were acquiring property. Things were very beautiful and wonderful. These are memories you cannot forget, yet some people have elected to kill others. This is why we need to go back and rebuild these bonds of love, friendship and quest for the proper acquisition of property.
Then what is Boko Haram! What do they want? Then we had political contests but it was only during election time. Zik would come to Campos Square and say his own with big English and we all would clap and cheer. Then Awolowo would come saying AG on top and so on. But that would be the end; there were no moments of brutalisation and fighting for anything.
Then the politicians would go back to their administrative and legislative duties. Yet, in terms of economic pursuit, no one disturbed us. I don’t know what is responsible now that we have to take up arms slaughtering human beings? Ah! If a Muslim gave a gift of cow to my father during a festival, that would be what we would talk about for weeks. It was not war or hate or tribe. Ah! We are in trouble o and we need to solve it now.
What is happening to Ragolis water?
It is there. I am the chairman. But the vigours of waking up early in the morning to attend to the function have been diluted. When I look back in time, yes, I am happy that we set up Ragolis when we did. Today it is doing well as either the first or second bottled water to hit the Nigerian market. It was me that wrote the feasibility studies for the project. Then I brought in people with whom we formed the partnership together. We then put in the name RA for my name, GO for my wife and the other for my partners.
But then my father, my surrogate father, Joseph Naman and the Chagolis brothers, we all put in some money to ensure the place started out well and strong. It was the joy of it all that brought us together.
How does it feel to be seventy years?
I know that it is good to attain seventy years. It is in the Holy Book that it is golden to attain three scores and one. The important thing is to be able to cast one’s mind back and say what have I done with my life and times all these years? So, the impetus to do more and to do my biography then becomes important for me now.
I am trying to do one. I even started work on the autobiography. I did just a few chapters when I got tired. In the days gone by I’d be awake all night writing and doing some piece of work. But I don’t have such resolve and strength anymore. And there’s this nagging problem that keeps propping up. To cap it all, I cannot go on long walks anymore, not the way I used to do it. I can no longer go for a bit of jogging. Even my physical power and elementary interest in all that keep changing. The muscles have begun to change, to ache me bit by bit.
I was unbelieving about all that before. I have been to many physiotherapists often; but I have discovered that I inherited bits of diabetes from my mother. So, that has helped to slow me down physically that I cannot do a few of the things I used to do. But this is the time to slow down and like my mother used to say something is bound to kill a person. I have been taking tablets and injections so that I can control it and be able to do more. That always echoes in my brain that something must kill man. However, in effect, there is diminishing effort in all spheres, in all strata, in whatever I do or engage in. Perhaps what is remaining in me is the capability to talk. That one is still with me, but I am not as spontaneous or as vociferous as I used to be. Then I think the ability to make those remarkable statements and important words on the marble are now contestable.
We do know that physically I have to be more careful about the sort of exercises I am involved in. These are some of the feelings I have now as I clocked seventy years.
