Category: Sunday Interview

Armed gangs are kidnapping passengers frequently on highways in Southwest states of Nigeria. In this report, Adewale Adeoye, who had a near death encounter with the armed groups narrates his experience.

Too early. My headlight picked only a few jogging shadowy men and women on the highway. I left Lagos after 4am. Appointment was 11 in Ekiti. Daily, one reads stories of kidnap. My heart skipped as I raced down the poorly lit streets. I encountered self-made check points manned by armed neighbours. For most travellers from Lagos, fear and anxiety grip as soon as you are in Ibadan driving through the desolate and bumpy highways into the countryside. You hardly can drive 100km per hour for five kilometers nonstop without a bad portion, sometimes a gully.

Before leaving Lagos, I took all the new security prescriptions: drove mostly in the middle of the road when time permits to be able to swerve if need be; wore sports shoe in case I needed to run; casual dress to lower any assumption of high status; deleted all bank transactions on my phone; set the radio in ‘scan’ to pick local stations for any security information. I knew it was not safe to travel early in the morning, but I calculated that in the first cock crow, I would still be in safer climes. I picked a companion, Femi Agbana, alias Jenku. He had a walk style that fits into his nickname, given to him by villagers: Jenku. I knew it was most dangerous to travel in the hinterland in the evening or pre-dawn, being the peak hours of kidnapping linked to terrorists.

We had a smooth sail to Ado-Ekiti, avoiding the areas already designated as axis of evil, where kidnappers strike almost every week. In the evening of the exact day I passed through, no fewer than six people were kidnapped in the same impish triangle. My own personal research indicated that kidnapping is more prevalent in the hours before 7am or after 3pm in the evenings. I guess the kidnappers did their strategic homework. Before 7am, security is usually relaxed, being the time police on patrol change guards; in the evenings, from 3pm, the operatives are held captive by fatigue, the police having being on duty since morning. The time is strategic for kidnappers; they can easily bundle their victims into the bush before nightfall. First, in the night, it would be difficult to locate them as they embark on the journey of death into the recesses of the forests. Secondly, they normally put off the victim’s telephone in the evening, leaving relatives of their victims in a pool of all-night psychological wreck, of anguish and sleeplessness, so that by the time they call at day break, there would be distressed excitement; at least they could listen to the voice of their loved ones.

That morning on my way back to Lagos, I sped like light through the green snaky alleys, made even more beautiful by mountain-top smoke of dew, having left Ado by 6am, hoping it was safer. As I meandered through the green hills and porch valleys of Ekiti, reaching Osun minutes after 7am, my eyes were eagles. Highway hawkers trickled into their makeshift stalls.

Suddenly, at the Osun second intersection, I sighted an auspicious signal. I noticed a distant car was trying to manoeuvre. That shot up my instinct. In a reflex action, I turned the car almost 180 degree. The distant car was now on “double pointer”. In seconds, three other cars razed towards our direction with the speed of a cheetah. This was before the Esa Oke junction.

“The armed herdsmen have taken the highway. They are stopping vehicles and marching everyone into the bush,” an old man with a ghostly voice told us as he sped on his motorcycle. Hurriedly, we drove into a safe distant, where we perched near the police post.  We were warned that returning to our point of takeoff was dangerous. The armed groups usually have a back-up for reinforcement, so, it was better to park, leave the car and wait to run to any safer direction. Among those who escaped the ambush was a middle-aged woman with a barely one year old baby strapped on her back. The woman was crying: ‘How would I have explained to the mother of the child. I’m not his mother. I’m just a caregiver.”

From distance, we saw a motley crowd, which we suspected were being marched into the bush. After reporting the incident, the response of the police was unimaginable. They hopped into their van and sped off- not using siren, indicating they were not ready to scare the armed men, but to confront them. The police van was marked MPF 12032. They had no helmet, no bullet proof vests, yet, they stormed through the highway to confront death. I could not believe this spirit of patriotism in a country where only pinhead of individuals is ready to make sacrifices. From a distant of 400 meters, we faintly watched the shootout. I listened to the sound of the armed herdsmen, the echo was undoubtedly AK47. Many travellers soon joined us. A retinue of farmers joined the crowd, as we stood, awed by the fierce encounter. It was this gathering of native farmers that opened up fresh vistas to me. We listened to the chilling stories of abductions of farmers and their wives, daughters, many raped and killed. One farmer said the armed groups also operate in the night, sometimes capturing long distance travellers. He said many captives were in the bush.

Another source said he noticed the presence of the armed groups for the first time in 2007. He said he was on his farm one midnight when a dozen men, all speaking alien language, huge bags on their shoulders, came into the forest. He said at dawn, they requested for a small piece of land and established a small farm in weeks.  He said they were friendly, claimed to be herdsmen and lived on the farm for five weeks before relocating. He said during the period, he was not in any way suspicious even though they organised bush exercises every morning and evening. “I never saw them again but another set came two years later”, the farmer said in his thick Ijesa accent.

Ebun Awoyemi, a former state official in Ekiti State narrated to our reporter how in the same area, he saw some travellers being led into the forests one evening as he sped through the highway, meaning the country may not know the actual number of kidnapped people, especially the silent victims.

One must understand the peculiarity of Osun, Ekiti and Ondo. Many farmers traditionally sleep on their farms and return to town on weekends. The armed men have put a stop to that. One farmer said the armed men who came to his farm were about 30. “They detained us on the farm. They had a big map of South West. They forced us to cook for them. They ate. They would go for operations and come back daily for a whole week for food” he said.

He gave accounts of how they keep women as booties, rape and humiliate them. He said they had communication gadgets different from the common telephone networking and that in the nights, they appeared to receive ‘big packages from strangers.’

One woman said her sister was kidnapped on her farm and kept for weeks. Her ransom was the free sex she gave, indicating that many cases of trauma go unreported.

We waited for about one hour before the brave policemen dispersed the armed terrorists who disappeared into the thick forest. Something strange however happened. As we waited for the green light, two men came in a suspicious car, tricking us that the road was clear to go. But a woman cautioned us: “Look at their faces; they are not part of us. Don’t be deceived.”

‘Herdsmen’ tag as a cover

It may appear a wrong prefix to call the armed men ‘herdsmen,’ for those reported here had no cattle. It does not appear to me that the South West states appreciate how huge the problem is. It seems clearly the problem at hand is terrorism being planned on a larger scale. The governments must understand the dialectics of the current challenge. There is a narrative of herders-farmers conflict, but it seems this underrates the real issue. ‘Herdsmen’ seem like a cover for a more malicious intent, meaning that the problem will not go even with the creation of ranching.

Sheik Abubakar Gumi described them as “insurgents.” What makes the Southwest governors think the armed strangers in their forests are also not insurgents, which means armed groups seeking to topple the political authorities and replace with their own brand? The current mayhem has many dimensions. The Nigerian government is not pro-active. During my visit to Libya in 2011, I saw the impact the then simmering problems would have on Nigeria. For instance, at the high level meetings, I noticed many Nigerians were in the Libyan Army. One, a Yoruba, was actually one of Maommer Gadhafi’s private guards. When the regime collapsed, they found their way back home, possibly with their arms. Yet, the crisis in the Maghreb region was destined to spill over to Nigeria, creating a sort of boom in arms trade. This is compounded by a racket political system designed to destroy public trust in the capacity of authorities to meet public needs like the essentials of life, one of which is personal security and food, making individuals to resort to personal tactics of survival often at variance with the laws of the land.

The response of President Mohammadu Buhari’s regime is weak, parochial and less influenced by utilitarian goal. Last week, Sheik Ahmad Gumi said the terrorists were fighting “ethnic war.” That could be linked to the 1804 Jihad. It should not be forgotten that in pre-colonial history, the three most powerful empires were the Yoruba (Oyo), Uthman Dan Fodio and El Kanemi. Are the armed Fulani men pursuing Fodio’s ideal and Boko Haram representing the relics of the Kanemi renaissance?

For one thing, the payment of huge funds to secure the release of kidnap victims has fuelled more arms, since the funds are being used to compete in the arms race by people now moving Southward. Though with a good intention of releasing kidnapped people without casualties, but the government can be accused of funding terrorists through those funds. Definitely, resolving the current crisis cannot be without the decentralisation of power and politics, one demand Abuja detests. However, neither will half measured policies help. Federal police in communities is not the same as Community Police.

I believe the growing insurgency in the Southwest cannot be fought without regional cooperation by contiguous states which the FG subverts in a dubious response. While Sokoto and Bornu states have signed security pacts with Niger and Chad, the Nigerian authority does not wish to see Southwest regional cooperation in Amotekun. While insurgents go about with sophisticated weapons, Civilian JTF in the North carry weapons, Amotekun is expected to carry sticks. The country is on a tight rope. I do not see how we can survive the turmoil unless radical and decisive steps are taken by the Southwest governments, at least, to prevent the region from becoming another Northeast.

Documented in 1968 by the Daily Times as the first Nigerian lady to ride a two-wheel machine, Princess Elder Aderonke Adedamola Ayeni JP relives the feeling early July 1968, when her photos flooded the old Daily Times and its sister publication, Alaroye. She also speaks on her forthcoming 80th birthday, being the first lady co-operative inspector in Nigeria and more. She spoke with Gboyega Alaka.

Come March 7, 2021, Princess Elder Aderonke Adedamola Ayeni JP will clock the landmark age of 80; but that’s not all that makes her tick. 53 years ago on July 2nd 1968, Ayeni, then Miss Aderonke Adedamola Sonuga, made the headlines in the then Daily Times, when the newspaper featured her photo (her friend, Clementina Adesanya behind her), as the first Nigerian lady to ride a two-wheel machine, a scooter.

Recalling the experience, Ayeni said she had gone to the old Daily Times office on Lagos Island to place a memoriam advert for her late brother. Unknown to her, news had gone round that a lady had ridden a scooter into the premises and everyone was on the lookout.

“I didn’t even know they had seen me or that I had created any spectacle. My concern was to park, go into the office, place the advert and leave. The most surprising thing was that moment I parked, news had gone round that a lady just rode into the premises on a scooter. There was a friend of my brother, Jibade Adams, who worked in the Daily Times then.  After I finished my business, I looked for him to say hello to him and as he saw me out into the parking space, behold cameramen were at the ready. One of them accosted me and said, ‘Excuse me madam, are you the owner of the scooter?’ I said yes. He said, ‘Can you ride it?’ I laughed and said, ‘What a question!’

“Before he could say another word, I mounted the scooter, my friend climbed behind me and I started the engine. Within a twinkle of an eye, I just heard shararara, shararara, shararara, as the camera’s clicked away. I was taken aback and burst into laughter. That’s why you’d see that I was laughing away in that photograph. I zoomed off and didn’t wait to field any further questions. I didn’t even think any further about it nor thought it could make the papers. It was my brother’s friend who later gave them my details.

“The next thing, I saw it in the papers. It was in the Daily Times centre pages; and later in their Yoruba version. Until then, a lady riding a two-wheel vehicle was untold and unheard of,” she said.

Asked what gave her the assurance that she was indeed the first lady in the whole of Nigeria to ride a scooter, Ayeni said, “Of course the reason it was put in the papers was because they had never seen such before. And I’m talking of the Daily Times, which covered the whole of Nigeria. If there were any other before me, they would certainly have known and wouldn’t have been so surprised as to come after me, snapping away and putting it in two papers. It was novel at the time.

“I was living in Agege and I rode all the way to Daily Times office on Lagos Island. At that time, Agege was like a village and quite a distance. I actually branched to pick my friend to escort me; otherwise, I would have been the only one in the photo.”

When reminded that that made her a celebrity and a history maker, she laughed and replied, “Of course it was God’s doing. It was He that brought it upon my life. When my friends and relatives overseas saw it, they started calling. Even I didn’t immediately know it was in the papers. My father in Ibadan also saw it. The news reverberated. It was a wonderful experience. I never knew it was going to be like that.”

Asked what kind of lady she was in her younger days to have dared to do the ‘unthinkable’ at the time, she said, “It was God. I grew up with my brothers. I had one brother in front and another following me; so I grew up with them and we interacted like there was no difference in our sexes. I was such that if they climbed trees, I climbed with them; if they rode a bicycle, I rode with them; wherever they went, I went. We did practically everything together and I wasn’t aware of any differences. Literally, I was the sort you’d call a tomboy.”

Speaking further on growing up, Ayeni said, “I was once in Sagamu. In a piece that I just wrote, I said that I was in charge of my grandmother who was down with stroke. Even at a young age, I could literally do everything. I had to carry her from the room to the living room, give her potty to ease herself – then I was just about ten, and people were wondering how such a young girl could take up such a responsibility. I was also in Ibadan with my parents at some point, then back in Lagos. My father was a railway man, so we lived in the railway quarters in Afonta in Ibadan.”

On how she learnt to ride the machine, Ayeni said she learnt and mastered it in one day. Before then, she had bed been used to riding bicycles, so she had conquered the fear of motion or falling.

“It was a new set of scooters. The day I went to collect it, a young man brought me home with it. Immediately, we went to Ansar-Ud-Deen school field in Oniwaya and he showed me how to ride it. Because I’d been used to riding bicycles, I was not afraid of motion or falling. Once he showed me the rudiments and how to mount it, it was not difficult. That very day, I rode it home.”

Recalling people’s reaction as she rode through the town into her neighbourhood, Ayeni burst into a hearty laughter and said almost in ecstasy: “Oh, it was fantastic. The whole community was stunned, literally. I became like a goldfish that had no hiding place. Ask anybody about the lady that rides a scooter and they’d just point out my house. I became popular beyond my imagination. It was so sensational.”

Surely, her courage must have inspired several other ladies to take a cue and master the two-wheel vehicle, this reporter teased. But she said, “No. For a long time, no lady dared. Apparently, they were still afraid.”

So she remained like the lone superwoman for a long time. “Much later though,” she said, “there was another lady in the Welfare Office, Mrs Eshiet. But that was long after I had blazed the trail.”

Asked if that sudden celebrity status affected her lifestyle, Ayeni, who says her first and middle names: Aderonke Adedamola are testimonies of a royal background and that her immediate younger brother is the present Oba of Simawa in Ogun State, said, “Maybe, but later I was elevated and I got a car. To the glory of God, all through the years that I rode the scooter, I never had an accident.”

She however said she experienced the now legendary ‘altercation’ with the notorious old Lagos ‘Molue’ buses.

“I must say that the Molue people were my friends because they always tried to intimidate or harass me. They’d come close and start screaming and blaring their horn, trying to scare me, but I would just moved calmly to the left side and tell them ‘Oya pass now’. Later, they would drive pass and hail me in ecstasy. Those days were interesting,” she laughed with nostalgia.

What was Lagos like in those days? Was the helmet law in force? How about the chaos that the city has come to be known for? Could she do a quick comparison?

About the helmet, she said, “Helmet? Nothing like that. In fact, you needed to see me in my native wears with my headgear. Fascinating, I must say. Agege was an outskirt of Lagos; but that notwithstanding, I rode to Ikeja every day. Our office was just opposite Southern Police College in Ikeja. I was a familiar sight – the lady on scooter.

“As regards comparing Lagos of today with Lagos of those days, that is like comparing death with sleep. There is no basis. Lagos was peaceful, Lagos was serene; but these days, it is hectic. Even the population keeps increasing. People are rushing into Lagos on a daily basis.”

First lady cooperative inspector

Recalling how she managed to own a scooter at the time, Ayeni said it was courtesy of her rank as the first trained lady cooperative inspector in the Ministry of Agric of the old Western Region of Nigeria.

“Before then, it was as if the rank was reserved for the men. But I went to the Co-operative College, Eleyele, Ibadan and after the completion of my course, I was given the scooter. That was the first time ever any lady would get to that position in Nigeria.”

Even scooters, she recalled, were very new in Nigeria at that time and men were usually given the big Triumph motorcycle.

Her Moscow Experience

Lest we missed the part, her daughter, Princess Sessi Favour Ayeni, who travelled all the way from her base in Ogun State to be with her mum in Badagry to ensure that this interview took place, chipped in that her mum was yet to talk about the fact that the government sent her to Moscow, USSR, to train as an inspector.

That drew a certain elation to her voice, as she recalled the peculiarity of the then Soviet Union.

“That was while I was serving. I was sent to Moscow, USSR to train as an inspector. I felt happy and honoured to have been chosen. They had the best cooperative farm settlement in the whole world at the time, so we were sent there to see what’s happening and come and replicate it back home. They had farmlands, well-organised, well-planned and the villages supplied all the foods the whole country needed all year round, so there could never be hunger in the land. But for the extreme cold, I really enjoyed the experience.”

Laughing out loud, she said, “The cold in that country is indescribable. Even on the street, they had to be using ice-breakers to break the ice, so people could pass. They were persuading me to stay two years, but with that cold, I had to excuse myself. I couldn’t withstand it, so I spent just one year and came back. Besides, I had my family and my son was just about seven months old when I went.”

About the language difference, Ayeni said, they had no choice but to learn.

Asked how come the things learnt from such trips were not put to use when they came back, Ayeni said, “There was good plan. The late Chief Obafemi Awolowo and that Baba Kekere, Alhaji Lateef Jakande, who just passed away, had good plans and I doff my heart for them. They had great plans, especially for agriculture, but they were all forfeited to greed.”

Speaking on her forthcoming birthday, Elder Princess Ayeni said, “It is God’s doing and it is marvellous in our eyes. My late father, Pa Samuel Gbadebo Sonuga retired as the Railway Station Master (SSM). In fact, he was the SSM at Iddo Railway Terminus when it was opened. Mum was Mrs Clementina Olutayo Nee Odunlami of Iperu Remo.  I married my heartthrob Chief S. W. Ayeni, an Egun man from Badagry, who is now late. Until his demise, he was the Ganse of Badagry. As fate would have it I now live in my own house in Povita Area after ASCON in Badagry.  It is a quiet and serene location and I’m fine with it.

“I am blessed with three children, two girls and a boy. I also have grandchildren.”

On how she relaxes, Ayeni said, “I read Alaroye. It is my favourite paper; and my bible naturally. I’m a Christian and an elder in the church. I don’t feel lonely anytime because I have my books and my papers around me. My first duty is towards God. The work of God keeps me on my feet – early morning prayers, evening prayers, Sunday service. It has been a very fulfilling experience for me. There is peace and I’m enjoying my health by the special grace of God. I belong to Living Faith Church Worldwide (Winners); the teachings and everything there have made me who I am today. I’ve never been to the hospital for so many years now; no headache, no pain and I thank God for it.

Rafiu Kolawole Abdulrasaq, a security expert and former PA (Security) to former Governor Rauf Aregbesola of Osun State, former, Chairman FIRMA Lagos and later SURE-P under President Goodluck Jonathan amongst others, speaks with Gboyega Alaka on the ongoing battle against Fulani herdsmen being championed by Sunday Adeyemo (AKA Sunday Igboho), the danger of ethnic profiling, how he once orchestrated Igboho’s arrest back in 2010 and why he is not fit to carry the light for the Yoruba.

You have quite a reputation working with politicians, especially in the area of security. Tell us about it.

My name is Abdulrasaq Rafiu Kolawole aka OTO (for Authority). I attended St Paul’s Primary School and Archbishop Aggey Memorial Secondary School, both in Idi -Oro Mushin; I later attended Olabisi Onabanjo University. I also passed through Dubai Police College. I am a security expert. I was former head of bodyguard to former Governor Babatunde Raji Fashola; former head of bodyguard to Governor Kayode Fayemi, former Chairman task-force under former Governor Gbenga Daniel of Ogun State and former PA Security to former Osun State governor, Rauf Aregbesola. Before then, I was also once chairman, FIRMA under former President Obasanjo, Chairman task-force on Sure-P under former President Goodluck Jonathan.

You seem to have a particular interest in the ongoing Sunday Adeyemo aka Sunday Igboho onslaught against the rampaging killer Fulani herdsmen. Tell us about it

I am here today because of what is currently going on in Oyo State. This guy called Sunday Igboho as far as I am concerned has been trying to create tension – unfortunately, many people do not know who he really is. Throughout the world, Yoruba are known and regarded as intelligent and accommodating people and we would not and should not allow someone to spoil our name, image and integrity under the pretext of fighting Fulani herdsmen – because the implication of what he is doing is such that the Yoruba people would not be able to handle. Again, the whole world looks at the Yoruba as the livewire of Nigeria, so why should a person like Igboho be our representative or mouthpiece? Yoruba are not hooligans!

What exactly do know about Sunday Adeyemo aka Igboho?

Igboho is a man on the streets and capable of all manners of atrocities. You can quote me on that. I am also on the streets. I have been on the streets since 1976. You can ask about me in Yaba.  So we know ourselves. There are some people who would be involved criminal activities in a community but would assisting people; that assistance is to cover up their tracks so that people would not know who they really are. Sometimes in 2010, specifically around December leading to the first Iwude Day in Osun State, I personally, as Special Assistant on Security to former Governor Rauf Aregbesola of Osun State, orchestrated the arrest of Igboho after I got a reliable intelligence that he had been induced to eliminate some prominent politicians. I petitioned the IG of Police, Onovo and they referred the matter to Osogbo Command, while they got him arrested. Their plan was to wear fake uniform and commit the dastard act on the first Iwude Day of that 2010.

You had to go to Abuja?

Yes. My principal, Aregbesola objected to use of force or confrontation. He said we should do everything legal to foil their plan. That was why I ran to the IG’s office in Abuja and wrote a petition, which I signed myself. The police said they would get him arrested. They actually invited him but due to the people that he was working for that I would not want to mention here for obvious reasons, the case was buried. Besides, those people may have repented but I cannot say the same of Igboho himself.

Are you saying Igboho was a political thug?

Yes, he was a political thug. He was being used by the PDP. I know because even I am a former member of the PDP. I was Chairman SURE-P under Obasanjo – it was called FERMA then and later chairman SURE-P Federal Task-Force under Jonathan. We know ourselves very well and I can tell you that he has tentacles everywhere, including Lagos. I know them and I know their mission. So how can such a person be representing the Yoruba race? It is his likes that went to burnt TVC and other infrastructure during the EndSARS protests – all these people who come from far flung places and live in the market. Why should anybody be living in the market? Area boys carrying guns!  During Obasanjo’s time, the police and the military invaded the places and took all of them to Panti. I’m a Lagosian; you can never see any true-born Lagosian who will be so mad as to go and sit-out at Lekki Toll plaza and engage in such vandalism.

These are weighty allegations, what if Igboho takes you to court?

He dare not. I told you I wrote a petition to the police and got him arrested. Why didn’t he take me to court then? Everything I say here, I can substantiate but that will be to the police or DSS, not to you people. Anything security has to be covert. If anyone doubts me, let the police investigate him from his youthful day. They should monitor his call logs.

But this is the same man who said he met Asiwaju personally and that the man even gave him a gift of N2million…

That’s a lie, don’t mind him. The truth is that Asiwaju is such a responsible person and everybody wants to attach themselves to him.

How about the part Senator Babafemi Ojodu wrote about him?

Of that, I do not know, because I was not present there. I will only say what I am sure of.

Well, you may have your reservations about him and indeed, he may have his past, but by taking up this cause against the killer Fulani herdsmen, people are beginning to accept Igboho as fighting a good cause. Are you saying he is not doing the right thing?

He is not doing the right thing. If truly he wants to help his people, what he should do is contact the security personnel, and tell them ‘such and such is happening in my home town and I have tried my best to resolve it without much success; I have also gone to their Seriki and nothing positive is happening; I need you people to step in. We are ready to support you. We know where these people are….’ And then work in conjunction with the security officers, so that whatever you do is legal. We don’t want Nigeria to become another Palestine. In Palestine, there is no law. If somebody slaps me, I’d go home and bring all my people to come and beat you up and all your people, including your mother. We don’t want Nigeria to degenerate into that kind of society. What are the police there for? What are the DSS there for?

But people have come out to say that the police have not done anything after several reports and petitions about the evils being perpetrated by these people, even siding with them in some cases.

That does not justify anything.  Listen, in the 1970s, we had Babatunde Folounsho, the best armed robber of the year; we had Oyenusi; we had Mighty Joe – all Yoruba. Would that mean that all Yoruba are armed robbers? In Babangida’s time, there was Anini, Osunbo, Iyamu, the police inspector. They were the ones terrorising the whole of Benin and by extension, Nigeria. Would that mean that all Benin people were armed robbers? Go and check Google; you would see all the crimes being perpetrated and serial killers. The young boy killing women in Ibadan; is he a Fulani man? Why didn’t they go and kill his whole family? I am not saying all is well or that there is no problem in our communities concerning these Fulani herdsmen; physically, I have not seen or experienced any of their violence and as a Muslim, I don’t say what I don’t know, but the issue is that if truly this thing is happening, you have to investigate and fish out who and who are involved, not indict a whole ethnic group. What is presently unfolding can lead to religious war or ethnic war. Already, some Muslims are seeing it as ‘They are killing Muslims.’ Even Yoruba Muslims. You may have noticed that they are not talking. Because the Quran says you Muslims are all brothers. Allah says he has bind you with one rope; but if any one of you is a criminal, you can identify that criminal and remove him from your community or eliminate him, but according to the law of the land. And you have to be sure of what you are doing; not guessing.

Fulani people have been living in our communities long before they even gave birth to my own grandparents and we never had any problem with them. The Hausa community is here in Mile 12; we don’t have any problem with them. Let everybody live in peace. Nigerians will go to America and be hoping to get an American passport in five years. Some even aim at political appointments. But here, you don’t want to see your fellow Nigerians. I lived in Dubai for four years; we know what some of our Nigerian brothers did there, robbing banks, committing ATM fraud, killing; I joined the Dubai police briefly and investigated them for the Dubai police, but would that mean that all Nigerians are criminals?

You saw what happened during EndSARS protests, when some people killed policemen and roasted and ate them before camera. Are those human beings? Those are ritualists; they only need blood; they are the likes going about with Igboho.

Some people may say that you have been paid to rundown Igboho, whom they perceive as fighting a necessary fight.

God will punish that person that paid me. How can somebody pay me to rundown somebody? I have my own family and children and I will die one day. I am 57 years old. Do I want my children to grow up and face all these problems, which they don’t know anything about? All the people at the centre of this whole trouble know how to escape when the trouble finally erupts in our faces. You know, once you’re a criminal, you always know the paths through which to escape. Look, all this juju that they are flaunting is a bloody lie. When it is your time to die, you will surely die. All I am saying is that if Igboho has any issue, he should liaise with the police; not make a PDP/APC politics out of it. Igboho clearly has another mission.

Are you saying this whole battle is politically motivated?

Yes, but tactically. He is a PDP guy, so he may be fighting for the PDP.

How about the allegation that the soldiers and the police are aiding and abetting these criminal herdsmen?

That’s what they have been saying but can you swear to it? There are so many cases that they’d say Fulani herdsmen but after investigating and arrests are made, you find that the people behind them are not Fulani men. The godogodo that has killed over one hundred policemen, is he a Fulani man? Is Evans a Fulani herdsman? Criminals now use Fulani herdsmen as cover-up. So until we start doing proper investigation, we may be endangering our society.

The governors in whose domains these violence are being perpetrated are also saying they don’t control the police…

That does not matter. I’m not in charge of security in my immediate community right now but I still use my discretion to discharge certain things. The governors hold meetings with the security agents nearly every week; you can call them to order. Tell them such and such is going on; exchange intelligence gathered and ideas on how to combat the issues. Personally, from your security vote, you can give them money and I can tell you that they would do it using their discretion. A governor can even write a petition as an ordinary citizen intimating them on what is happening and what you want them to do – not hide under the guise that you do not control the police. Ordinary individual that has money controls the police, how much more a governor. But if there is no report and the police just come there, people can say they came there illegally.  We are not saying we do not have some bad people in the police but is it every police that is bad?

What advice do you have for the Southwest governors; don’t forget that Igboho also visited Ogun state, purportedly on the invitation of the governor?

No, the governor did not invite him. He said it publicly that he did not invite him. That’s why I said everything is politics. It’s just like this EndSARS madness. When they started their clamour, the government cooperated; the IG cooperated and said there would be no more SARS; but because they had another motive, another devilish agenda, they refused to stop. I was ready to face them, who will die will die but some people said we should let them be. You saw them burning everything. Is that how to right a wrong? Okay, they said some people stole money and went to buy houses in Dubai; can they go and burn the houses in Dubai? Asiwaju that they are all targeting is a Lagosian, he has the right to do business and own properties. If you have cogent evidence against him, write a petition to the EFCC or go to the station and make a report. This is a man who has done a lot to develop Lagos. Ikosi ordinarily is a local area; but by bringing TVC, a television of such a huge standard to the community, he has elevated its value. So how can anyone decide to burn such an edifice on the pretext of anger? They went to the palace of the most paramount monarch in Lagos and vandalised and desecrated it. Only bastard would do that. Can we go to Ibadan or Edo or Owerri and destroy their monarch’s palace? This is all about hatred for one man. You claim he is not a Lagosian; a man born in Lagos state, who has spent well over 50 years in Lagos State.

There are also allegations that ransoms to free kidnapped people were paid to the Seriki…

Can you swear to that? Have you investigated it? When you want to condemn somebody, you have to bring serious allegations against him. It’s just like what we’re saying about Asiwaju. He’s not a Lagosian, he’s a thief… Meanwhile, 70 percent of these people accusing him are people who came from outside Lagos. His mother, Abibatu Mogaji, never said he was not her son, so what is the problem of those who are investigating their relationship? It’s a private affair. Asiwaju is not the only person who has money in Lagos. Koro has money, Atiku has money, Dangote has money; are you saying we must not have a rich man in Lagos State? I am an indigene of Epe. I am proud of what Asiwaju has achieved for Lagos State.

Shall we then say that this interview is aimed at dousing the ethnic tension being fanned by Sunday Igboho and his boys?

Let me tell you, if we allow this Igboho issue to persist, come 2023, APC will not have access to other states. Those who are hailing and joining him do not understand that this.

But Oyo State governor, Seyi Makinde, who is PDP, has condemned him and even called for his arrest…

All that is charade. We who are versed in their ways know this trick.

Call it what you like, but some people who know Igboho’s background may see this battle as a way of him legitimising and reintegrating himself into the good books of his people.

That may be true but that only happens when there is a scarcity of intelligent people or when the right people refuse to speak up. Any country where criminals become heroes will never have peace. Ask yourself, where are they getting the guns from? Who is sponsoring them? Which work is Igboho doing? Mark my words, if he is not tamed, he will get out of hand.

Finally, what is your position about Fulani herdsmen carrying guns?

No, no, I cannot support that. We are in a modern day. Fulani should go and buy land, fence it and ranch their cattle. That’s what they do everywhere – Dubai, America. Anybody whop wants to buy could always come there. That’s what we should be clamouring for. The present system is even dangerous; you see cattle colliding with vehicles on the way and causing deaths. When they enter a farm, they eat everything or destroy everything. Meanwhile the farmer has spent a lot of time, energy and money on the farm.