Bishop of Catholic Diocese of  Bauchi, Rt. Rev.Monsignor Hilary Nanman Dachelem,  in this interview with David Adenuga  talks about his journey into priesthood. He also bares his mind on  restructuring and neglect of youths   in the country

TELL us about your childhood experience

I was born on  June 3 1966 in Makurdi , Benue State to the family of late retired Superintendent of Police, Mr. Simon Sarka and Mrs Philomina Shakumlongep of Moedakwalla in Qua’an Pan Local Government Area of Plateau State, as the second of seven children (five boys, and two girls)

My  love for knowledge and desire to impact on people’s lives led me to take up a teaching appointment with the Roman Catholic Mission ( RCM) Primary School Miket , Qua’an Pan where I taught for some time while nurturing the desire to serve God in the presbyteral order.

Call to priesthood

I have always wanted to serve God and serve him in the capacity of the priesthood. Since I was born , my parents brought me up in the Catholic tradition. In my growing up as a little child, It didn’t seem to dominate my thought, but it was after my secondary school, the whole thing started coming to me to be a priest.

Having gone to St. Peter Secondary school where I met the Catholic priests, the holy ghost fathers precisely, I was moved by the degree of their sacrifice and lifestyle and I liked it so that made me to start thinking of that lifestyle, of  sacrifice and of commitment to God.

That was how I started developing It but It was when I finished my secondary school  and attempted a few of those things that it dawn on me that I should look inward.

So I started making attempt to join any religious group of the Catholic priesthood. There I heard about the Declaration Missionaries through a convent I visited, (  where the sisters are)  through an Irish sister called sister Magdalene , she  gave me a little booklet and that booklet has the addresses of all  religious institutions in the Catholic church and I applied.

The one that gave me a favourable reply happens to be the present order I find myself, that’s the Declaration Missionary order, the order started in Spain through St Anthony that declarate  close to 200 years ago, he was the Archbishop of Cuba.

They started that group and we were supposed to be missionaries that will go to anywhere sent to work. I applied, they took me and I saw the life. In 1986 I started my journey with them. Since then I have never regretted being a declaration priest. I see the priesthood as a call to sacrifice for others. I see this as an opportunity to touch more lives,  to impact on people so I see my calling as an opportunity to do that

In 1986,  I began my  journey to the priesthood when I gained admission into the Claretian Institute of Philosophy Nekede where I  had my Postulancy and Philosophy studies.

How would you describe  your 25 years  anniversary as a priest which you recently celebrated while also   launching a book titled ‘ Youth Companion’  to mark it.

The last 25 years has been  occasioned by humanity plus divinity in the sense that  I am an ordinary human  trying to live a godly and spiritual life and you know, It has not being easy but it’s all  about the grace of God. It has being wonderful years of event, different things happening but in all I give thanks to God.

Many have accused religious leaders of being part of the rot in society for failing to give good advice to those in government? Do you agree with this?

Yes. but the thing is I  don’t like  pointing fingers because we all have our responsibilities . We have all failed collectively.

As a journalist, you know the ethics of your job, and as a priest I know the ethics too but I would say ,  we all have failed collectively in the project Nigeria, religious leaders are not exceptional. In different ways we have all contributed to the problems of  this country.

Anytime you fail to do your task, you will see the consequences but people feel it’s only the priest that should tell the truth but the truth is every person’s responsibility.

When you cover what’s not supposed to be covered , it means you’re subduing the truth and we all do that and some of us as religious leaders come from homes that have covered this things.

What do you have to say about the state of insecurity in the country?

It’s not about sitting down and playing the reaction role. I see the security issue as an issue that requires more of the proactive approach rather than the reactive approach.

We should imagine that some people way of living is to destabilize the system  but we should always find a way of aborting that . There is no room for relaxation. Like they say security is every man’s business , you must be ahead as you can not sleep with the two eyes closed  if we have to talk about security.

And the funny thing about security is that the same system you allow to crumble, and you didn’t pay attention to will also swallow you up one day.

The IGP recently  ordered the  withdrawal of police escorts from religious leaders, eminent politicians and other important persons  What is your take on this?

Yes . I agree  with that. No life is more important than the other. The life of everybody going by the rule of law is important.

Let’s create a Nigeria where everyone can move freely and peacefully whether you’re in power or not. The escort culture is rooted in fear and intimidation.  Let’s create a system that works irrespective of who is in power. Let’s create a Nigeria where everyone can move freely.

How would you rate the performance of President  Muhammadu Buhari ‘s administration in the areas of security, job creation and infrastructure so far.

Mr President has being doing his best but we have lost more lives in Buhari’s administration than any other past Presidents in Nigeria, let’s say the truth. We wouldn’t say he is the cause but that depicts the complexity of the society we have.

That also tells us that when we are looking for a President in future, we should take into cognisance  the complexity of Nigeria, the new Nigeria and  not the old Nigeria.

The present Nigeria is full of bloodbath, exploitation, and all manner of fraudulent acts like  yahoo plus. I don’t believe Buhari at 80 something will  have the dynamism to really get the intrigues that’s involved.

His health challenges has  slowed him down, let us be fair to him . The Buhari we knew before was faster and smarter than now. Another thing is to know when to quit, it’s a sign of good leadership. Many lives has being lost in this government but that doesn’t mean no live was lost in past administrations but we keep losing  more in Buhari’s tenure.

Both Christians and Muslims are  dying, security operatives are also constantly losing personnel as if it has become a tradition. We must find a way to put an end to  this death culture.

A government has to protect its citizens.  Governance is all about the coming together to establish a policy that will protect me and you and so much need to be done by this administration in the area of insecurity.

I know he has a goodwill for the country  but the issue is how can he really navigate from the analogue to the digital Nigeria. The country he ruled years before is not the same country he is facing now.

What should be done to unite Nigerians now further divided across religious and ethnic groups?

A lot needs to be done and I don’t know where to start.

Previously , they have had some constitutional conferences and serious opinions were sounded  but It is like most of the resolutions reached  have being swept under the carpet.

I think it’s high time to dust those ideas because those things were done when Nigeria was saner than how it’s now.

This question of justice, fairness and the rule of law must be addressed,  dialogue is a serious weapon and the the  Government  need to put aside sentiments. There should be an inclusive government where all ethnic groups are well represented.

There have being persistent agitations for restructuring in some quarters, do you think, this is the right way to go?

I have always had my opinion about restructuring but I feel we have to restructure our mind first, our attitude, our approach to national issues. When you talk of restructuring, what comes to people’s mind is the federation having lesser power while the states having more power, These  are some of the  understanding of people but even if we disintegrate , there will be war because our minds is not restructured.

We have to be mentally prepared for good governance.

The constitutional conference we had then may still have a solution that we have not  yet applied. We can’t get people all over the country   sit together with so much  resources spent and you just throw it away like that.

What clauses are you afraid of that cannot be addressed in the provisions.

Should priests go into politics or take up political appointments?

A priests have the right to vote and  be voted for as citizens because  the constitution give them the  right but if you want my advice, I would say , the priest who want to further the kingdom of heaven should be at the background and not engage in partisan politics because it will affect the free flow of the work of God.

What are your thoughts about the hundreds of youths who took to the streets in protest against police brutality, calling for an end to the Special Anti-Robbery Squad of the Nigeria Police?

That  has long being overdue, I expected the youths to have protested long ago. The EndSARs is only a human rights  aperture that happened to the youths , the youths have being grudging for long, let’s say the truth and they have being suppressed, neglected  and strategically disregarded in our political plans  .

There are pocket of policies here and there but we   take them(youths)  more of an appendage, we have not factorise the youths as an issue in the country and If we don’t invest in them today, they will surprise us tomorrow.

The EndSARs protest was only   an opportunity for them to express their grievances but I don’t support violence from them. They must learn from our past nationalists who fought for Nigeria’s independence and never achieved that with violence. Though I am quite aware that the protest was hijacked by hoodlums.

Many Nigerians appear to be fed up with the current state of governance in the country. Do you think Nigerian leaders have failed the youths?

I won’t say in its entirety, The government may be trying their best but when it comes to the youths who are also stakeholders in the  country there are lot of lapses.

For instance, the last youth policy that was done was in 2006 by  Obasanjo’s regime , a concise articulated one,  but it has not being implemented even halfway.

What we are saying is that  a strategic plan and strategic implementation of policy for the young persons  is important.

It’s only a nation ending towards doom that will take the youths for granted because that’s where you find the real energy to transform the nation. It’s an important stage you don’t toy with.

The youths issue must be given full attention. Until this is done, I encourage the youths  to embark on more protests as a matter of fact  but there must be no violence. It’s not enough for the President to say he has heard the youths loud and clear after the protest, he has to attend to their issues.  The youths have not being fairly treated in this country. They should be called for a dialogue where they will tell us categorically what they really want.

Do you think the end SARS protest  was meant to divide Nigeria as alleged in  some quarters?

Not at all. The youths have being aggrieved long ago. They only wanted to be straightforward.

The only thing is that there are political gladiators who wanted to take advantage of it to smuggle their agents because I know there are some people eager to divide the country. Those trying to divide this country are not the young but the old people .

Some Nigerians fear that the problem of poverty may force the poor to rise against the rich, who are in the minority, if nothing is done to address it. What are your thoughts?

Yes. I keep saying Nigerians are never to be taken for  granted. Somebody said something to me about  God loving  the poor people so much that he made them greater in number and as long as they keep suffering, time might come when they will say  enough is enough. The earlier the aristocrats of our society take cognisance of this, the better for us because most revolution in the world started this way. We should be careful anything can happen.

Like a saying by Abraham Lincoln says , ‘You can  fool some of the people some of the time, you can fool most of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time’  So I will say we should be all cautious.

Having started as a drummer, Emmanuel Iren later found love in music as he had written twelve songs which also featured popular gospel musician, Eben. The master’s degree holder was soon called to the pulpit and has since became the head pastor of Celebration Church International with branches in Lagos, Port-Harcourt, Abuja and Canada. He speaks with Adeniyi Adewoyin in this interview. Excerpts…

SO many people know you as a pastor, what are the things that people don’t know about you, and if you were not a Pastor, what would you be doing?

That’s a simple question, because I love what I’ve been called to do. But in some other ways, that’s a tough question because they are a couple of other things that I have a fervent passion for. Academically, I have a master’s degree in Business Administration, from the University of Lagos. I’ve always had a knack for business being done properly, and organisations running smoothly, so perhaps I might have explored a career in that. I also studied Building Technology for my first degree, and I’m quite passionate about interior decoration. Also, I’m a songwriter. By God’s grace, I’ve written about twelve songs performed by Outburst Music Group, including ‘Light up the way’ featuring Eben. In fact, before I became a pastor, I started out as a drummer. I’ve always been musically inclined. But I think in a way, all my different experiences and gifts find expression in ministry.

What’s your relationship with gospel musicians, most especially the ones you write songs for?

I founded Outburst Music Group and all the songs I have written have been performed by Outburst. We featured Eben as a guest artiste on our newest project. I love music and inevitably musicians. I follow closely the work of not just singers but a couple of instrumentalists as well. I used to be a drummer. So I’m still very fascinated with good music. I have a good relationship with a good number of musicians.

Definitely. I’ve had the honour of hosting gospel musicians like Eben, Dunsin, Jadhiel ,  Judikay, and so on. In fact, there’s a faith based not non-religious platform I host with my wife called YOUNG AND FREE. We had Johnny Drille grace that event. The list goes on.

Celebration Church has grown exponentially since it was founded eight years ago. What’s the secret to what many would term the success of Celebration Church? And what drives the continuous expansion?

The secret is simply the grace that accompanies the call. The Bible says that if anyone prophesies, let him prophesy according to the measure of the grace of God. Every spiritual activity should be carried out by grace and not just by effort or mere physical or even mental exertion.  The truth is some other people who are called to just pastor one branch and as long as they do that wholeheartedly and do it according to what the Lord has asked him to do then they are a success in that call. So I don’t really consider us a success, because we are doing what is great in the sight of men. You know, but, rather because we’re doing what God has asked us to do.

When people ask why open even more branches, my response is simply because that’s because that’s the vision that God gave us; A specific vision.

And by the way, we realized what we emphasize is slightly different. The real questions isn’t how many churches there are in the world. The questions we like to ask people are, well, since you’ve been going to church, do you understand the Bible? Are you growing in the knowledge of God? Not just in religion, not just in what people say. Or what is popular, but what the Word of God says. It isn’t enough for a church to five metres wide, if it’s an inch deep. Also, I must say that while we are grateful for the numbers, the testimony of changed lives is the greatest testimony of Celebration Church.

 How long have you been pastoring? How did you receive the call? What has brought you from there to here? If you can just share a bit of your history with us as a church?

It all started from me just being an undergraduate student on fire for the Lord. I just wanted to serve the Lord the best way I knew how to and be as responsible as I could, contributing to the advancement of the kingdom. But what was supposed to be a private personal fire began to grow. People literally began to come to say that they had been blessed, and they wanted to grow. That was a pointer to the fact that God had more in store, which later became confirmed and we began to have small Bible meetings that grew from three people to ten to twenty to hundred to five hundred and more, while I was still an undergraduate.

After school God told us that it wasn’t just a youth ministry, but that he had given us a work that must continue, which is what we have done. So about a year after graduation almost immediately after my youth service we set out to start, what is now known as Celebration Church had our first Sunday service on November 11th, 2020.

 For someone who feels like there’s a call upon their life to become a founder or pioneer, it might be ministry, business, social change or something else? What would be your word of encouragement be to them?

My answer would be a balance of a spiritual and a natural approach. What people need to realize is that no matter how convinced you are that you’re supposed to do something, there is a requisite amount of confidence and bravery that it would take.

Whether it’s a spiritual vision, or otherwise, there must be bravery to step out and do.

In the Bible, when God called people, you would often see a disparity between how God saw them and what he had destined them to be and how they saw themselves. Jeremiah saw himself as a child, Moses saw himself as a stammerer. But God called them prophets. Many times, we don’t see ourselves the way we ought to see ourselves or we don’t see ourselves through the lens of God. We’ve bought all the socio-cultural narratives that that have given us a thousand and one reasons why we cannot do what we are born to do. But sooner rather than later, you must stand up, square your shoulders, and get the job done. Just like Mary, we must have the audacity to embrace the vision and say: “this is who I’m going to be and this is what I’m going to do my life.”

You’re thirty years old, but you recently celebrated your 6th year wedding anniversary, and you’ve got two daughters. What would you say is the secret to a successful marriage? Does getting married early have anything to do with it?

I really think that for two people to work together, they must realize that one of the greatest causes of conflict is when people are set in their ways regarding how things must be done. You know, so there must be an agreement if two people work together, just like the Bible says. As great as your parents’ marriage is or was, whatever be the case, your marriage will be slightly different. And even though the values are fundamentally the same, but practically every marriage is different. So the people involved must learn to be flexible, must learn to be understanding, must learn to be forgiving, and just come together and find what works for the good of the home. So I think that once that is achieved, and conflict resolution is something that has been mastered, a huge chunk of whatever might be the trouble will be out of the way. Of course, I can’t really answer all the keys to a successful home in a few paragraphs, but I think that’s a major one I can share.

But when it comes to marriage, everyone’s timetable is different. I feel like some people may not be ready to get married at the age of 30. Some may not be ready to get married at the age of 35. Some may be ready to get married at the age of 23. Some might be ready to get married at the age of 20. It’s not really about the age; it’s about the maturity, the exposure. Do you know what it entails and are you ready to play your part?

Marriage is an institution between two consenting and responsible adults. There should be some level of financial independence. There should be a social-cultural independence also, you should be able to stand on your own in a community and be ready to carve a niche for yourself and more. You should have the mental, emotional and financial maturity, to raise a family. At the time I got married, I was through with school. I already had a job. I had a friend that I was convinced I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.

People say that the church is not doing enough to help the poor but is instead opening branches all around. How do we balance that? What would your response be to something like that?

First and foremost, I want to say respectfully many churches have shown, even more what the government can do better.  I attended Covenant University, and when you look at a system like Canaanland, that has had constant electricity for 18 years, that has good roads, good water, and everything; It now lets you know that the government that we’re paying taxes to, can do even better if they are more prudent with finances. I’m not saying that the church is doing too much. There’s always room for improvement but chances are the church is doing way more than people know. For instance, I think our church was able to help at least six people with their schooling and school fees this year alone. That’s a church that is just eight years old. Growing up, even before I became a pastor, I was in a local church that was quite generous to the poor among us, but didn’t make a lot of noise about it. In the past few weeks, we’ve seen churches speak up against injustice, and support peaceful protesters in dire need.

Jesus says the left hand shouldn’t know what the right hand is doing. The debates can be made if those things should be made more public than they have been. But I can attest to the fact that many people are doing way more than people realize.

As important as acts of charity are, the world needs to understand that we still have a message, that the church is fundamentally in the business of souls, of discipleship. Jesus said, to go into all the world and teach all nations and that remains our priority.

In doing so, we carry a bag with us, we help the poor and all of that. I’m not saying helping the poor is not important. It is very important but it is still not our core message, because poor, rich, no matter your economic status, the gospel is that you will need to believe in Jesus to have eternal life and that is still our fundamental message at the end of the day.

What’s next for celebration church?

Whatever God says is next. For now, we’re consolidating. God has helped us to reach so many disciples and we want to do that more faithfully. We don’t do anything except God tells us to do so it’s very hard to say what’s next but we’ll keep doing what we’ve been doing, telling the world about Jesus, helping thinkers believe and like a popular apologists to say, helping thinkers believe and helping believers think. Bringing the balance between reasoning and faith. Helping people realize that faith is reasonable and when we say that we believe in God, it is not a figment of our imagination. It is a fact of life and we can show it and the evidence is there for people who are objective, who would follow the science that God himself has given. So, we would just keep doing what we’ve been called to do faithfully.