–Ex-NBA President Priscila Kuye
It’s bad that women are exposing too much these days in the name of fashion’
Her name is adored within and outside the Nigerian legal community. That is because, Dame Priscilla Kuye has in the last three decades plus, worked hard and contributed to the development of the legal profession, and today is a Life Member of the Nigerian Body of Benchers. From a privileged background, young Priscilla keyed into her parents’ dream of having educated daughters in the family as against the poor attitude towards educating the girl child which was the order of the day then. She went on to the University of London, where she got her law degree; she later returned to Nigeria and years later rose to become the first female president of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA), the first Regional Vice-President of International Federation of Women Lawyers (FIDA) for Africa among others. Dame Priscilla Kuye is today a happy grandmother, but still dutifully sits at her desk in the chambers to attend to law matters and even goes to court. She gracefully combines the beauty of years gone by, with the classic modernity to create a charm lifestyle for herself. She spoke to Paul Ukpabio in Lagos.
Looking at the enormous success that you have made out of your life, how far would you say that your background has helped to shape the person that you are today?
I was lucky to have had parents who were teachers. They were educated at the Yaba Higher College of that time. It was the university of those days. So, I was lucky to be educated despite the fact that I happen to be a girl. In those days, there was stiff discrimination against the girl child acquiring education. My parents insisted that I had to be educated. They also insisted that my sister too must be educated. I am happy that today, my sister is an architect, while I am a lawyer. I had a happy childhood with firm religious upbringing because my mother used to take us to church. We were Catholics. They instilled the fear of God into us and we learnt to pray regularly.
Did you grow up in Lagos?
No, I grew up in Ibadan. That was some decades ago. Though my father was a teacher at a Grammar School, he was the Assistant Registrar for Co-operatives. And when he retired, he later became an Oba (a traditional ruler) in Ogun state. He used to be called Oba Alade Merin then, that was because he could rule in any of the four areas in Ijebu.
How about your mom?
Unfortunately she died, but then I had returned from England when she died, I was already married and living at Glover road in Lagos.
Why did you have to go to England for studies, were there no universities here?
That was what my parents wanted for me. They chose the United Kingdom for my further studies. So I left for the University of London where I got my LLB. Afterwards, I came back.
You schooled in England, at that time did it cross your mind to marry a ‘white man’?
No, it didn’t cross my mind (laughs). I had to marry a Nigerian. I suppose that if I had fallen in love with a ‘white man’ may be it would have been possible. But then, I didn’t. However, I fell in love with a Nigerian. So I married a Nigerian. Nonetheless, inter-cultural marriage is good. But it didn’t happen to me. I was more interested in coming back to Nigeria after my studies.
Did you meet your husband abroad?
We met here and also later met abroad. But we did not go abroad together. We went differently. He attended the London School of Economics.
The idea for both of you to get married to each other, was it conceived here in nigeria, or in the UK?
(Laughs) The idea was conceived in London and not here. We were just friends in Nigeria, but got closer when we met again in London.
Was it that you met in school over there?
No. it wasn’t at a school, we met at a social gathering. We got married in london and then returned to Nigeria.
As a young girl, what was it like to practise law in Nigeria?
It was okay. Law practice is very interesting but you must be ready to work hard, especially if you want to stay in private practice. When I qualified in August 1966 in London, I went to the Law school and in 1967 I worked with a senior colleague for three years. He was a brilliant lawyer, especially in commercial law. I gathered a lot of experience from there and in 1970, I started work at my law firm.
What motivated you to set up your chambers?
At that time, there were few female lawyers in private practice. as a matter of fact, only few female lawyers. That was because, it wasn’t easy for women to combine managing their homes and combining that with their law practice. I had to organise my time and prioritise on those things that I had to do. I enjoyed what I was doing.
Did you have your children before you opened the chambers or after?
I had them in London before coming back. That was a fortunate thing to happen because it helped. They were already growing when I started the chambers. And so they attended Corona school and St. Saviours Schools. They had their primary and secondary schools here in Nigeria.
How did you cope with the home front and running a young chambers?
I used to take the children with me to the chambers sometimes. They followed me anywhere I went whenever the need arose. I had to bring my children up well with the fear of God. We had to teach our children the truth and teach them by example. When bringing children up, we must teach through examples because children are clever. They watch what we do and not what we say most of the time. It is not what we tell them, they do what they see us do. I am happy that our children have copied us. They fear God, they have taken their religion serious and that makes me happy because this is what I wanted them to be. They fear God and in their own ways, they are very good at their business. They are successful people and I am proud of them.
Did you at anytime work for government?
I never did. I have been contented being self-employed. I felt that if I was working for government and at the same time rearing children, it may conflict. But if I am self-employed, I would have more time for the children because I would be able to organise my time. I am one who believes that it is important to be a good wife and a good mother. It also helps to raise children who would not be mis-fits or drug addicts. I believe that the lax we are experiencing in the society now is a problem from the home. It is important that we give our children quality time and teach them good values, we have to teach them to be patriotic, to fear God and to do unto others what they will like others to do to them.
Through your years of practice, which would you say was your toughest case?
I believe that as a lawyer, one cannot win all cases. I won some and I lost some. I cannot even remember my toughest case, it’s been a long time since: 1967. But I remember one now, Late Tai Solarin took Cardinal Olubunmi Okogie to court, and the Late GOK Ajayi was the lawyer on the other side. The matter was about education. And Cardinal Okogie was an Arch Bishop Okogie at that time. The Late GOK Ajayi had more experience than me, but I won the case. It was a tough case. GOK Ajayi said he was going to appeal the case, but he never did. As a young lawyer then, I was very happy that I won that case and it did also help to get more high profile cases (laughs).
Is it just litigation that you do?
No, I do a lot of commercial work too that is, drafting of documents, registering of patents and trademarks, all the other things that I learnt at the chambers where I worked on return to Nigeria.
Which has brought more success to you, litigation or other commercial work?
I will say that it is the commercial work because people know me that I am good at what I do, that I know my onions. I go to court too because once you are retained by a bank, you have to go to court at some point for them. Here you can be a solicitor as well as a barrister.
What were the challenges of working with male lawyers when you returned to Nigeria because according to you, female lawyers were not many.
The male lawyers used to say then that ‘women are good for rearing of children and being in the house!’ I used to ask them then, how can we get a university education and then sit down at home and not use our knowledge? Let me tell you, a female lawyer has to work twice as hard as a male lawyer before they can recognise her. But once the men know that you are a good lawyer, they give you your respect. The male lawyers respect the female lawyers who know their onions. It is hard work. One just has to decide to do anything one is doing well whether you are male or female. Being a woman is totally irrelevant in professionalism. At least that is the experience that I have had.
Have you been on advocacy for women?
There is no way that a female lawyer will not get involved in women advocacy. I am a Life Member of the Council of Women Societies, so there is no way that I wouldn’t have been involved in giving talks, holding seminars to educate and motivate women. In my earlier days, so many people used to invite me to give talks and raise the status of women.
Has that improved women generally?
Yes, it has. I think women should take part in such seminars and workshops because they will learn a lot at such places. Again, I belong to an organisation that is against female genital mutilation. We try to make sure that such mutilations of the female genitals should stop. There is no reason for such mutilations. We educate women on this and even go as far as educating and creating awareness among traditional rulers that this custom must stop. It should be abrogated. There is no reason why a woman should have her clitoris mutilated. It affects them when they want to have children. Some of them bleed which is not good for their health. There was a book that the Late Vice Chancellor of Lagos State University Professor Jadesola Akande and I put together to educate women. She was my classmate.
Lets talk socials. in those days, professionals and graduates returning from the UK, we hear, used to have their special socials and elite clubs. Does it still happen like that these days?
In those days, there was more security. Then we could go to night clubs on weekends and come back late. But these days, one has to be careful. In those days, we didn’t have armed robbers and kidnappers. I remember going out to Late Bobby Benson Club and we won a prize. We also used to go to Metropolitan Club, but these days, night life is dangerous. One has to be careful because one doesn’t know where the armed robbers and kidnappers are coming from. The night life these days is not for me. But I honour wedding ceremonies and other such social outings. I also attend professional dinner events. But in those days we had fun because everywhere was secured.
How about leisure?
Oh, I love to relax. I used to play golf at a time, but not anymore. I had reasons to stop. These days I just walk. I had to give it up. I walk for 10 or 20 minutes and then do exercises in my house. I watch films, read detectives books, I read Agatha Christies detective books. I visit friends during the day, not at night (laughs); it’s not really wise going out at nights. I do that because I relax when in company of my friends.
Apart from law, what are you passionate about these days?
I am passionate about church work. I believe we must give thanks to God, do things about God. God created us, we must find time to contribute, to give back through the development of the church, of the society. we must give back because we have received. And when you give to God, you are giving to the society. It is important.
When last did you have a holiday?
I don’t miss it at all. I do that every year. I use my brain a lot, so I do not miss my annual holiday. Every year, I take a full month off work. Lawyers have one month vacation in August, so I use it well. I think it is important to do so because all work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
Is it only London that you go to for holiday?
No, I go to other places. The holiday that I enjoyed most was when I went to the USA and also Dubai. Both are lovely places to visit. I have been to many states in the United States of America. I do my vacation in Nigeria too.
What kind of music appealed to you when you were younger and what kind of music appeals to you now?
(Laughs) You are really taking me back in time, good old memories. We used to dance to Sunny Ade music then, Ebenezer Obey’s music too. But I also love classical music. I still do. I listen to them at home. They are relaxing. I listen to Christian music too. I use them to meditate.
You play Golf but do you agree that it is for the elite?
It is not true, anybody can go to the golf course and hire clubs, you do not have to buy. You can go to Ikoyi Club, see if you enjoy the game. If you do, then you can then buy your clubs. I know buying them could be expensive but you can hire.
But to enter into Ikoyi Club, one has to be a member and that costs huge money
Yes, I am aware of subscription fees and dues, but I still feel golf is not for the elite only. I am a Life Member of Ikoyi Club, I am a member of the golf section. Golf is a wonderful exercise. When you are on the golf course and you want to play 18 holes, you immediately know that you want to walk three miles or more, so you could choose to play nine holes. Then you have to concentrate on the golf ball. You have to make sure that you are on the fare way. By the time you finish playing, you are sure to have breathed in fresh air into your lungs. While playing, you will forget about work, business or legal practice. You are totally relaxed. And of course you are likely to be there with your friend. As you play and walk, you are chatting with your friends depending on who you are playing with. I find it very relaxing and it is healthy.
So you can play nine holes or even 18 and you can also play alone if that is what you want to do. Though it is better enjoyed in good company of two or four persons. A good game, good exercise.
As professional men hang out after work in the evenings, how do women hang out?
(Laughs) You know, we have International Federation of Women Lawyers, I do not think women hang out together at night like the men do. I do not think women can do that because women are very busy, they are sometimes house wives, and as a career woman before you finish attending to your husband, attend to your children, there will be no time for such. But again, these days, women have clubs for those who have time.
There is a club called Cosmopolitan Club for women, though I am not a member yet, however, some of my friends are. also, I think there is The Ladies Dining Club, Zonta International Club and so on. Women go there to discuss about women affairs and how they can raise the status of women. There is too much discrimination against women in Nigeria. Women have to be economically, politically and educationally empowered. You know that there are men in this age who still believe that girls should not be educated. I think that is a wrong conception because every individual needs to use their brain, it doesn’t matter the sex. Education is very important for raising the status of women. Education is knowledge, it is power. Mind you, we also arrange dinners for ourselves too.
What was your fashion sense in those days and then now?
We had a lot of fashion in those days. We had ‘bonfo!’ (Laughs) The clothes reached down to the knees, at least it didn’t expose the body as what is being worn these days. We didn’t have ‘spaghetti’ at that time in Nigeria, but they had in England, the evening wear, the Europeans liked it. We had Buba and Iro; the Buba was short sleeve though, not long sleeve as it is being worn now. Some of the old fashion that our mothers and grandmothers had is coming back. I believe that a girl, a woman must dress with modesty. These days, women are exposing too much and I do not like it. A mother must watch what her daughters are wearing. They must be properly covered up.
Nowadays, women are exposing too much. And it is the mother’s duty. The girl dresses before leaving the house; that is the best time to correct her to wear something decent before going out. I am happy that there are churches today that when a lady comes in looking too exposed, they tell her to go and change into something decent. When you come to church exposing everything, your back and front, you will distract the men and they will not be able to concentrate on their prayers! And they are supposed to concentrate on their prayers, that is why they are in church.
You are a grandmother now. What is life like as a grand mother?
Yes, I am a grandmother many times over. Life now is very interesting, you thank God for the grand children and you enjoy them. Children liven up your life at this age. You exchange visits and you listen to what they have to say. Children are funny, they watch what you do and do the same.
Your advice to young lawyers
They should work hard, set their goals and always ask themselves what they want to achieve with law practice. They should also work hard, pray hard so that God can bless them. If you are going to court, prepare your case well in the chambers. Young lawyers should not come out of school and then start practising. They should spend some time first with a senior in his chambers to learn. From there, they can then establish their own chambers. They should also pay attention to details.
You have handled many cases in time past, what if a husband tells his young lawyer wife not to work or a case where a young lawyer is posted out of the state where her husband is resident, what do you advise the couple to do?
I know it happens because I have seen graduates whose husbands said they shouldn’t work, not necessarily lawyers alone. If the husband says don’t work, then between the two of them, I think that they have to dialogue. The wife has to make the husband to see the reason why she should work. Even if it is part time. That is I do not see the reason why a woman should sit at home and not do some kind of productive work that will generate some kind of income after going to school to be highly educated. They should dialogue and with patience, they can resolve it.
As regards the issue of posting for a young wife, it is difficult because I believe that husband and wife should be together for a stable marriage, especially if they have children. Again in our country because of the economic situation, it happens, but it is not a good thing for marriage because it may not even be a temporary transfer. I don’t like separations in marriages, especially long separation, because it will affect the stability of the marriage.
