Mrs Phoebe Ajayi-Obe, a 90-year-old Senior Advocate of Nigeria (SAN), was most probably among the early sets of elites to engage in cross-cultural marriage in Nigeria. Married to the late Dotun Ajayi-Obe, a medical doctor, two respected Igbo statesmen, the late Dr Nnamdi Azikwe and Chief Michael Opara, had to be called in before her family consented to her marriage to a Yoruba man. Called to the Bar exactly 50 years ago, she was one of the first female lawyers to become learned fellows. In this interview with Southwest Bureau Chief BISI OLADELE, Mrs Ajayi-Obe relives her ‘risky’ adventure into cross-cultural marriage, how she picked a career in Law after she had been delivered of four children and some memorable cases she handled.
How do you feel being 90?
I feel fine and I believe it is by the grace of the Almighty God that I clocked 90 in good health, reasonably able to move around. I thank God. It is only by His grace.
Have you always believed you will attain the age of 90 before death comes calling?
I never gave it a thought. I did not make myself and I cannot see tomorrow. I only prayed that whatever God has in stock for me would come to pass.
Can you share with us some of the landmark moments in your 90 years of living?
What I will call a landmark would be when I got married and when I had children and watched them grow up into adults. It is amazing how God plans the reproduction, the replacement of the old ones by the young ones, and so on. It is the way God had planned it for individuals; we have no hands in it. We did not merit living. We did not merit anything. But by God’s grace, whatever He plans for us will come through, and I believe so.
Did you record any landmark in your career?
If you talk about my career, I was a teacher for a long time. My husband was a medical doctor in the old Western State and he was moving from one station to another—Osogbo, Oyo, Abeokuta. I never believed that a man or a woman alone can successfully bring up children. I followed him with the children wherever he was transferred to. And if I were to get a job as a teacher, it meant begging to apply everywhere he went to. That made me lose interest in teaching. So, with his consent and support, I went to study Law. I decided to retrain myself for something that I could do at my own pace.
How many children did you have at the time you decided to go into law?
I had four children and I had taught for over 10 years.
How old were you then?
I can’t say exactly, but my children were growing. I gave birth to the youngest of my children when I was in Law School. I manipulated the date so that my final exam would not fall to when I would have the baby. My doctor, Dr. Onifade, was very understanding. He knew I was going to do an exam in the Law School. He discussed the date, what I could push forward, I pushed forward and what I could pull back, I did. One day I went to him myself and said, “Doctor, you know that my babies are usually big. If you allow this baby to continue growing in my tummy, you will have problems. Do induce me. That made me have him 10 days before my Bar exam.
You mean you went through most of the Law School in pregnancy?
Yes, I did. My husband asked me to defer it but I rejected the idea because seniority at the Bar is very, very important. How could I allow my mates to be my senior at the Bar? The boy was 10 days old when I went to write my exam. My mother-in-law was a wonderful woman, a good woman, active, very clean. I had no fear about her looking after that baby. As God would do it, the boy did not give her any problem. If he was hungry, he opened his mouth and drank his milk. When I finished the exams, I came back and started nursing the baby, and life continued.
Did you pass the exam?
Of course, very brilliantly!
You didn’t have to repeat any of the papers?
Nothing! Nothing! No reference. So I became a lawyer since I was called to the Bar
What year were you called to the bar?
I don’t remember. That is one of the incidence of being 90. I complained to my doctor at one time that I forget a lot of things. He said it’s natural, that if you keep everything in that brain, it may burst one day.
How long did it take you to become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria?
It took between 10 and 15 years.
Can you remember one or two landmark cases you handled that contributed to you earning SAN?
To become a SAN, they required you to have handled a number of cases in the high court, a number in the Court of Appeal, a number in the Supreme Court. But what happened is that when I came here in Ibadan, I found that if you go to a party, women will all segregate to one corner and discuss and the men would be doing their things. I never joined them (women). Wherever my husband sat, I sat by him.
I had one experience I would never forget. We went to a party and sat together. My husband went to ease himself. I didn’t even notice, and he was having a drink before he left, but he left the glass on the table. When he was returning, I looked at the drink, it had a different colour. So I carried it and went to throw it away. I told the person serving to bring another glass and also bring him a bottle of whatever he wanted to drink and put it down. I requested that it should not be opened. One woman came to me and thanked me very much. I didn’t understand but we stood up from the party and left but nothing happened. I thank God. I never sat elsewhere when I went out with him.
So, one day, we were at a party in the house of a judge. We all sat in the sitting room and many people sat outside. Dr. Faturoti of Ilesa looked at Justice Kayode Esho and said, ‘Kayode, all these people you are making senior advocates are not as good as she is.’ He was referring to me. Justice Esho said I had not applied. I didn’t know that one had to apply to become a SAN, and I told Dr Faturoti so. They designated another senior advocate there to see to it that I did what I was required to do to become a senior advocate. It was on a Saturday.
The following Monday, I went to his office and he said that all his Supreme Court cases had been given out to lawyers who wanted to be senior advocates. I asked him what to do next and he advised me to go to the Supreme Court and obtain the form and find out the requirements. So I did. The form stated the number of cases in the high court you must handle within one year, the ones in the Court of Appeal and the ones in the Supreme Court. I started preparing. Within one year, I got the number of cases for high court, the Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court. I got this form, I filled the form and submitted everything.
After applying, I forgot all about it. One day, I was in the Court of Appeal and the presiding judge said: ‘Mrs Ajayi-Obe, don’t worry. Mr X didn’t get it on first application. This one didn’t get it also. So, don’t worry if you don’t get it this time; you will get it someday.’ Then, I knew that the person who knew what was going on had seen what was happening. I prepared for another application and this second application scaled through. I was sleeping at night one day when a friend of mine called and my husband picked it up. He said, ‘Congratulations, in the news today, you’ve been made a senior advocate.’
What was your spontaneous response?
I thanked God because I felt that it was only God who could make me a senior advocate.
What year was that?
I can’t remember
I learnt you were the second female SAN in Nigeria?
Yes! Yes! Yes! I thank God that it happened that way. I did not fight for it. I did not struggle for it. I did not lobby for it. But I felt I was qualified and God made the way.
At the time you were practising law, I guess women lawyers were not in large numbers?
No. Women lawyers were not in large numbers. In Ibadan, when I started practising, we were only three female lawyers. Now they are over 50. It wasn’t easy for women. I remember a senior asking me to come to his office. He said he had something to discuss with me. He said: ‘Mrs Ajayi-Obe, I want to tell you that practice is not for women. It is too strenuous for women.’ After listening to him, I said that for me, I had shelter and I had bread. All I was waiting for was the butter to put on the bread. I don’t need to go to Sokoto today and Kano or Enugu the next day to practice, and since so much is provided, my needs are not much.
He was angry. He said, ‘You mean to say we are ‘Jackis’ who go from time to time?’ Then I said if you say so. But for me, I know that if I do the cases around me, God will bless me, because I cannot afford to leave home because of somebody’s case and travel to Kaduna.
Having said that, I have been to Kano and Jos. But at that time, my daughter had qualified as a lawyer and I took her to the court. She was happy to be Mummy’s junior in court. It was about once or twice we did that. But what she enjoyed most was my taking her to the Bar Association conferences. She lived in Lagos, but when these conferences were coming up, she would come home and we would go together. We enjoyed that very much.
Was there anything special about appearing in court shoulder-to-shoulder with men and in front of male judges then?
Nothing. The only difference is that I was happy that I excelled in practice. The judges had no complaints about my practice. Cases are won in chambers if you prepare. But if you don’t prepare, no matter how good your case is, you will lose it. With that in mind, it didn’t matter whether my opponent is a man or a woman. It did not make any difference because I understood that if I prepare my case well, I would be able to deliver it well in court and be happy at the end.
Were there times you felt that you were rejected by judges or male lawyers because you are a woman?
No. That didn’t happen, because I was older than a lot of the male lawyers and they respected me because I had no fight with them. Even when we were in opposing camps, they respected me and I gave them the advice I could give them. For example, I won’t disclose things to the opposing counsel, but if you are in court with me and you are appearing for somebody that isn’t my client, I would give you tips. I would help you, particularly if you are a young lawyer. The juniors loved me for that, because at times they would ask if they could come to my chambers so they could discuss their cases. I allowed them to come and we discussed the cases. The young shall grow, and they were growing.
Who are the other two female lawyers you practised with in Ibadan?
Mrs Connie Aremu. She was very junior to me, but I worked with her. She is a brilliant young woman. She is a Ghanaian married to a Nigerian.
Can you remember two to three well-known names that you worked with in practising your profession?
I worked with Chief Olisa Chukwura (SAN). I worked with Ganiyu Agbaje who became Supreme Court justice. He was first appointed to the Court of Appeal. I worked in Agbaje and Agbaje Chambers but something was peculiar in Agbaje and Agbaje. They were three brothers who were lawyers then and they all practised, had their own cases. It is not that you have a chamber or this is a chamber’s case; they all had their separate cases. When I came in, my husband said I would not go to work for salary. He said we needed to find a good law firm where I could learn. He told Justice Ogunbiyi and Justice Ogunbiyi recommended Ganiyu Agbaje. I went and Ganiyu was so good that he put his chair next to mine. Inside his office, we sat next to each other and I learnt how to practise. He was a very brilliant man. On Fridays, lawyers would call him and seek his guidance on cases they were handling, and he obliged them. He would just tell them the cases from all courts that were won and relevant to theirs.
Can you remember a particular case you handled that is so important that you can never forget?
Yes. I was in my chambers one morning and two Igbo men branched to my office and said that their shops were being demolished. It was in November and the money they spent on their children’s schools fees was whatever money they made between November and December. It was so crucial that I should not allow the future of those children to be destroyed. I went and saw what was happening, came back to my office prepared a writ and a motion of injunction to stop the demolition. Normally you will file a case, serve other parties before you can think of injunction, but this was an interim injunction. It was an emergency. The court needed not hear them (the other party) before granting the order. I went immediately to the court, filed it, filed the affidavit and the court granted the injunction that day. That was a place between National Bank in Dugbe Alawo and UBA, facing the main road. I was very happy when the court granted the injunction and stopped them.
They said it was dangerous for the shops to continue operating. Is there any precedence? Did anything happen? Nothing. This case, I didn’t charge 10 kobo for it, because I felt that I was doing something for humanity. They were about 20 men who had shops at the site there, and they got permits from the government. My joy was not in how much I charged but how much I helped humanity.
What was your initial response to his proposal?
Negative. Because I didn’t understand the Yorubas and I was only a student. So, I told my brother, he said a friend of his was coming to a conference. He said I just got to Edinburgh and whether it was the cold or I didn’t have money; that I had never told him this type of story before and now it’s going to be a Yoruba person. They don’t look after their wives well. That was the belief. However, he came and we went out to dinner with him and he probed and probed. When he came back, they told my brother that he was a nice man. He was studying Medicine and I was an art student. They went back and told my brother what they found out. He sent another person who was coming. Then he told his father his problem. My brother was not a politician but he was a God-fearing person, respected in the Eastern Region. When the government had problem that needed a serious solution, he would be invited. He would pray over it, call people together. He was a scientist but a God-fearing man. So, they used him to solve problems.
When my husband told his father that he had found a girl he wanted to marry, the father asked for my photograph first. So, he told me that we were going to watch a movie and asked me to dress nicely like an Ibo woman. I did. As we were going, he said: ‘This is a nice photographer. Come, I want a portrait of you.’ Then he sent it to the father. His father approved when he saw the photograph. Then he said his father had problem. He called Opara and Nnamdi Azikwe in the East, he was in NCNC. He was in Zik’s political party. He told them his problem, they fixed a meeting-Opara, Zik, Baba and his colleagues he took from Yorubaland.
When they got there and they started talking, Opara said that whatever is begat by a snake must be long. He said he would tell them what made them believe that my father-in-law was a good man and that his family must be good. He said the NCNC wanted Chief Ajayi-Obe to be the governor of Western State. He said when they approached him, he said: ‘I’m a senator, I’m content being a senator. Chief Fadahunsi is older than me and older in NCNC. Why not make him the governor of Western State?’ That was how Fadahunsi became the governor of Western State. They agreed that was an evidence of a good man. He was considered as content, not overambitious. Then my brother agreed but gave the condition that we must come back to Nigeria before getting married.
My husband told me only half of the story about the agreement. It was three years after we came back to Nigeria. He said there is something I must tell you. Let me tell you
Why we got married in Edinburgh: your brother had agreed with everybody that we should get married, but he was sure that if we landed in Nigeria, they would line up all the lawyers, all the accountants, engineers and ask me to choose, all of them Igbo. That he knew he was going to lose out, so there was no way he was going to do that. I said that is history.
Did you face any stereotyping, opposition or dislike from your husband’s family?
When we came here, I looked strange to them. I didn’t understand the language. Many of them spoke no English but I didn’t feel lost because my father-in-law protected me. Unknown to him, whenever his relation came, he would say that I should kneel down to greet the person. I did that for three days and my knees were aching. I went to the room and slept. When my father-in-law was looking for me and when he eventually found me, he said people are coming to greet me. I said Baba, you know where I come from, we only kneel for God, but now I have been kneeling for three days. He went to his room, took his koboko (horse whip) put it inside his agbada. Whenever you see Baba put his hand inside his agbada, you know that there is a problem. Everybody ran away when they saw him. He went and kept it and came out and spoke to them. Then he sounded a warning that anybody who would make me kneel again to greet would be in trouble with him. One of my sister-in-laws came to my room and said if anybody comes to greet you, let them stay with your husband’s sisters. I started doing that and I was free. The only people I knelt down for from that day were my mother-in-law and my father-in-law, and just once in the morning. I got free from that and understood that Baba has said you only kneel down for God. Apart from that, there was no friction.
What advice do you have for young women?
I will advise young women to plan their days very well in a way that the family will not suffer because of their career and in a way that they don’t lose chances of progress in their career. I was at a symposium long ago and a young woman said the problem she had was that the husband eats only fresh soup. It means you have to cook soup every day. I asked her how the man knows that certain soup is not fresh. I advised her to cook a pot of soup and divide it into four. Today, you put fish in one and serve it and everybody will eat fish soup. The next day, the same soup, put chicken in it, it becomes fresh. The following day, put everything together in another soup.
If you cook egunsi, the family will eat egunsi today. Tomorrow, put bitter leaf in it, it becomes different. The next day, put ugw. Just keep on changing the same stew. She was very happy. Two weeks later, she came to me and knelt down and said I’ve saved her marriage; that putting everything together would have finished her marriage.
You have to find a way to make life easy for them. Another thing is that young women bite more than they can chew. They don’t know what affects them. They will wake up very early in the morning, get the children ready for school. In some cases they beg them to go to school. After school, you go and pick them. On their way home, you stop in the shop to buy this and that. Let the man do something.