Kano State Governor Rabi’u Musa Kwankwaso spoke with reporters in Kano, the state capital, on what he described as the alleged plot by the Presidency to impose a new constitution on Nigerians through the National Conference. He also spoke on the resolve of the All Progressive Congress (APC) to sack the ruling Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) from Aso Rock in next year’s election. KOLADE ADEYEMI was there.
What is your view on the latest controversy in the National Conference over the constitution amendment?
In my last chat with you, when I mentioned the issue of the new constitution and the conference, many people thought it was a joke. But, this is a very bitter reality. Today immediately after the Council meeting, I received so many calls from Northern delegates attending the National Conference in Abuja that the issue of new constitution is now a reality at the confab. Of course, people who love this country and really understand the situation we are today; and the likely consequences of another brand new constitution, which the President wants to use to start another eight years, beginning from 2015. Certainly, it is a very dangerous development.
Let me take this opportunity to thank all those who have rejected the issue of new constitution. Let me also take the opportunity to thank the National Assembly members because they were the ones that have received the earlier plan, earlier efforts by those at the Villa to have one single term of six years beginning from 2015, which they rejected. Now, they are smuggling it into the confab. Now, I believe that the delegates, whether from the North or from the South, whether they are Christians or Muslims, whether Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa or any other tribe, should help in rejecting that constitution because that will not help this country. That is why we told our delegates very clearly that they owe this country a duty of rejecting that new constitution. We have seen some of the things contained in the new constitution, especially the issue of the six-year single term. And the issue of 50 per cent derivation, the scrapping of 774 local governments, listing additional 18 states, and limiting the number of ministers to 18. The only good thing that I saw there is the limiting of ministers to 18.
Is the North not monitoring its delegates?
We only hope that those who are pretending to be representing us there in Abuja will have no place when they will come back or remain there in Abuja. We will send them to the almajiri schools that were being built by Jonathan. And I believe that all of us should come and join hands and save this country. It is difficult to know their thinking in Abuja. The saying that the higher it goes, the cooler it becomes is very apt in apt in describing the situation in Abuja today. Those that are very high are in a very cool atmosphere while the masses, the people of this country, are suffering from poverty. Illiteracy is killing this part of the country; and of course, the issue of insecurity. Every day, people are being killed and maimed; everyday, properties are being destroyed. As we are sitting here, displaced Nigerians in Borno are now taking refuge in the forest. Many of them are in Cameroon, many are in Chad, and also thousands are in Niger Republic. What we are talking here is to change the tenure of Jonathan to life Presidency. It is very sad that this thing is happening now and I am one of those that have travelled across the world or have the opportunity to read a lot; the Nigeria’s history, geography and of course, political situation across the world. What is happening today in Nigeria, if 10 per cent of it can happen anywhere, that leadership cannot stand; and it is very dangerous for all of us. We are very happy here with what we are doing for the people of the state; but we are very angry because we have read the minds of our people because they are not happy with what Aso Villa is doing. We have never seen anything like this in this part of the country; and they seem not to care. They seem not to understand, they are very busy in the air, working for themselves and helping themselves to steal forever. I always remind people that, when terrorism started in the Northeast, little did many people know that, one day, it will come to this part of the country. We have it here; it is also in the Northcentral, and now, it is crossing over to the South. I am sure that you are aware that some parts of this country now have flags other than green-white-green. This is terribly ugly and unprecedented. It is up to us to appeal to our delegates and Nigerians to resist the temptation of the so-called dollars people are distributing in Abuja to come and save this country. Any constitution rather than the 1999 Constitution should be rejected because any thing less than that is an instrument designed by those who think it will help them. But, it will not.
As an opposition figure, what steps are you likely to take to ensure that the new constitution does not see the light of the day?
One of the steps is what we are doing here. We want to make our position very clear to them and the entire world, especially our friends across the world that we believe that what is happening now is very dangerous, not only in Nigeria, but for our neighbours. I believe the consequences will affect the continent. That is why I thought I should take this opportunity to appeal to all Nigerians to shun the divisive tendency that we are seeing in Abuja. We have seen the division of the North and the South, the division of Christians and Muslims, the division and division of tribes. That is the keyword. The keyword now is the divide-and-rule, and I don’t think that will help. And from the information I have, which is not correct, that many people are saying those who are not supporting the new constitution are the minorities and that, whether they like it or not, tomorrow, they will push it to Nigerians, and the next thing is to organise a kangaroo referendum. They will cook the figures like they did in Ekiti and force themselves on us. I don’t think that is good enough. I appreciate the elasticity of Nigerians, but I think that elasticity has a limit. When you keep on pulling and pulling, there will come a time when it will not take anymore. That is why I think the good people of this country should speak because some of the consequencies, as many people are now seeing, will affect everybody.
Your party, the APC won the Osun governorship election. What is the implication of that victory for 2015 general elections?
Well, my party won the elections. My opinion and the opinion of my party is that we won the Ekiti governorship election. I think that is why the party is in court. The experience that we had in Ekiti worked for us in Osun because people came en mass and defended their votes and that is exactly what is going to happen in 2015. People will vote, and not only vote, they will stay and defend their votes. Let me thank the social media. Those who have cooperated with us and those who have supported us as a party that made it very very difficult for anybody to change the real figures. If they had done that in Ekiti, I am sure they wouldn’t have had the chance to rig us out. But to us, the Ekiti experience is a lesson. Also that of Osun. We have learnt from our mistakes. The INEC is improving and I hope the security agencies should also improve. We always tell them that, instead of militarising Ekiti and Osun with mass security agents, they should go to southern Borno and do their job there so that we can have free and fair elections and also have a peaceful country. So, we are happy that the people of Osun and Ekiti came en mass to vote for the APC, and I am sure, given an opportunity again, especially in Adamawa where they used the executive power from Abuja to force Nyako out of office because of his opinion, I believe that, when the election comes, people will come out en mass and support the APC so that we can have peaceful Northeast, different from what we are seeing now like the emergency in the state and other states in the Northeast, so that people can continue their normal businesses, people can come down from the rocks and hills and forests to go to their towns and villages. In that part of the country, nobody is talking about education, nobody is talking about agriculture, nobody is talking about business. People are talking about survival; what to eat and how to see the next day. These are the things that, by the grace of God, the APC will provide in 2015.
From what is happening, there are indications that 2015 may be violent. What are your fears?
Our fear is not only about 2015. We are also praying for this President to take the ship to the shores of 2015. I think we are more concerned about that because the way things are going now, the way people are dying, the way people are being kicked out of their homes; when we are seeing the picture, I believe it is not the best; and I believe that Nigerians are being taken for granted. And we hope that 2015 is going to be peaceful and we will do everything possible to ensure that it is peaceful from our own end because we believe that everybody wants a united Nigeria where an Igbo man will continue to stay in Kano. You know here in Kano, we have what we call New Enugu. If you go close to the airport, you will see a whole area that we called New Enugu. It is looking like any part of Abuja. We are very happy that we have them here; and we hope one day, we will have New Kano in Enugu, New Kano in Port Harcourt, New Sokoto in Adamawa, and so on and so forth. Here, we are working to integrate our people, here we are together as Muslims and Christians, Hausa, Igbos, Yorubas—we are one and the same. We are all Nigerians. That is what we want in this country and that is the best way we can have peace. Otherwise, by the time every party like what they are doing, we begin to divide, I don’t think that it will be good. During democracy, all these tendencies tend to go down while the unity of people based on political parties will come up and that is why I always tell people we should see ourselves as brothers, irrespective of our religion or where we come from.
Former Chairman of the EFCC, Nuhu Ribadu, has defected to the PDP…
People ordinarily will think that my brother, Nuhu Ribadu, is a principled person; somebody with good ideology, somebody who is progressive; somebody who is always working towards the unity of this country. I remember during his days as the Chairman of EFCC, he has done so much to deal with corruption. As we are moving into democracy, water is taking its level, people are moving in and out of parties, meaning that people with similar ideologies are coming together, unlike 1998/99 when we were forming parties to deal with the military and install democracy. Everybody from all ideological tendencies came together. Now that we have gone deep into democracy, we are looking at our shoulders to say who is close to who and who is on the other side, and that was why some of us left the PDP to join our brothers and sisters who have the same ideology with us to bring about the desired change in this country. Now, for him who was, in my opinion, in the right place and together with the progressives, if he should just leave because he is looking for position or he is looking for a ticket to contest election, I don’t think that is good for him and I don’t think that is good for the country. At the end of the day, if that happens, God forbid, he will be the biggest loser. He will lose because most of them were jailed by him. I don’t think they will ever want to see him there, but in politics, there is this accommodation of people that they will bring you close, raise you up and dump you. At the end of the day, they will laugh at you and say, look at him now. If Ribadu is joining the PDP, whether he wins election or not, he will be the biggest loser. People can’t believe that all what we said about him was completely wrong. The biggest punishment for a politician is for him to be in a wrong place; because if he goes there, by the time they are talking about how to share $20 billion, I don’t think he will be happy, if he is the kind of person I use to know, unless he was just deceiving all of us. I don’t think Nuhu Ribadu will make that mistake because if he does, it will be the biggest political mistake of his life.
Is the defection from the APC not worrisome?
Well, it doesn’t worry me at all. It is something that we should expect. I wasn’t in the APC. I left the PDP because I realised it was not a place that I should be and that was why I moved. And of course, those who were in the ACN, the CPC, the ANPP and the APGA who are now in the APC, they would have moved and don’t forget, we are dealing with a government that has accumulated so much money to the extent that they see everybody as a commodity and attach price tag on him. I believe that not everybody will be on this side. When they start dangling some dollars, you begin to wonder whether you stay or go. That is not the issue. The issue I believe is the people. Some of us are lucky in the sense that we have so many people behind us. So, we are so heavy that it is not an issue for us to be flying from one pole to another. And once we decide to do it, we do all the arithmetic, we do all the calculations that are necessary so that we can go with almost 100 per cent and that is what we have done here in Kano. So, there is limitation, but those who align to it—it is very simple because they believe that their wives and children are behind them. It is very easy for them to change position. You see, in politics, you don’t sit down and start looking around and be chasing luck. Stay where you are and work hard. You don’t have to win elections all the time. I contested elections 12 times, including primary and secondary elections, and I lost one-that was the governorship election of 2003. It was a big lesson to me. I learnt so much. I was humbled and I am very proud of that particular election. One out of 12. I believe any politician who has never won election or never lost election or only had one—that to me is not a complete politician-you need to win, you need to lose election; with that, you have to know how to manage success, you will have to know how to manage failure. You cannot do anyone of them, if you don’t have both experience. That is the position under which I believe that we will continue to work together as progressives to make this country better for all of us.
