South African poet, writer and cultural worker, Natalia Molebatsi, is the author of We Are, Sardo Dance and Elephant Woman Song. Her research interests are Pan Africanism, African and Black Feminist thought. However, she is unhappy with the xenophobic attacks and other forms of violence, especially against women and children in South Africa. At the recently-concluded Kaduna Books and Arts Festival (KABAFEST 2019) held in Kaduna, she spoke with Assistant Editor (Arts) OZOLUA UHAKHEME on the possible causes of xenophobic (Afrophobic) attacks in her country, how arts can be used to foster peaceful co-existence and her love for Nigeria, among other issues.
How can arts be effectively used to fight ignorance, prejudice and hate in the society?
Literature and arts in general can be used to address differences in every society. But literature as a space can be used to see another world that may have existed in the past, or another world that might exist in the future. In this way, people are drawing a picture of themselves and imagining what they want. I think it’s also a responsibility and duty of the artist to paint this world, the necessary world that we all need. Sometimes when artists write or paint, they don’t even know that the society needs them or uses their works in a way that mends scars from any kind of violence. But, it also brings joy that sometimes we don’t even know it exists. So, I find literature and the arts have ability to stretch when we don’t even know it is possible. With the way the arts is, the artistes are able to move things, navigate and stretch people’s mindsets, imaginations, people’s hearts and has always been their role. It is such a magical role because sometimes we don’t even know how it happens. It is such a delicate way of communicating and also giving communion.
Can it break perceptions and people’s mindset?
Arts can do that. In as much as it seems some Africans hate one another, they surely love music icons like the late Afrobeat legend, Fela Anikulapo Kuti, and Hugh Masakela, no matter where you are from. So, imagine setting up a musical concert with all of these icons and the likes of Angelic Kidjo and telling the people that you are all Africans or Pan Africanists, and that even if you don’t live on this continent, it all started on this continent. I have seen them do it. But, sometimes, the inertia becomes our leaders’, our politicians have got their own mindset and their own structural inertia that they don’t act as swiftly and as smoothly as they should. For example, it is somebody who brings a message of love, of hope, of unity to everybody in this world, somebody like that is someone who can quickly mediate but I don’t think that the people who are in power want that to happen or understand the power of that happening.
There is a second narrative on this ongoing xenophobic attacks in South Africa. It is alleged that it is a deliberate arrangement by South African authority to distract public attention each time the people are pushing to hold government accountable on some critical issues. What is your take?
What you are saying is so important because that’s exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking what could be the true matter that is happening? I don’t think xenophobic attack is at the core of the issue. I think the method of divide and rule is so alive. I think this violence is just a scape goat, something like a decoy. But, I tell you it works because poor people will attack one another.
I mean people working in low income areas. You don’t find that in media houses where people are working as journalists or the academia all over the continent.
People who turn against one another are always the poor, people who are disposable in so many ways. This is because when such person dies, nobody is going to write about it. And the person won’t even matter, especially if the deceased is black. That brings us to the global issue of racism where white people have always used us against each other.
Why are you a writer?
I’m a writer because, first of all, it’s a gift from my ancestors. I didn’t ask for it, they gave it to me. They also gave me the responsibility to marshal it. You know when you are born with a talent, you have the responsibility to stretch it and nurture it into something else. As they say, talent is overrated. Everyone has got one talent or the other, so, in a way, I started to read writers on the continent and elsewhere; and I began to understand the power of words as they were able to travel. I could travel before I was travelling physically and I could also travel with my words.
I find myself being able to express myself and I come from a country where expression could lead you to jail or death as a black person and a woman. When I found the urgency or the currency of words, I saw I could use this to navigate emotions to share my pains and my joy. It was to me an incredible thing to find. And everyday, I keep learning what words can do and I still don’t know half of it.
What is the strength and core of your performing poetry?
I don’t know, but I get on stage sometimes and I don’t know what to say. I look around me and I feel and see energy that is so powerful because when you perform, as they say, life is a performance. If you live alone in this world, why would you wear clothes? And because you are alone, nobody sees you, but if you are around people, it means you are exchanging energy and so it’s important for me to stand there and say: what is the energy in this room? What is the energy looking for? Then, I’m able to engage. So, that’s what I do as a performer.
Is it your first time in Nigeria?
No! Nigeria is my favourite country on this continent and one of my favourite countries in the world. So, I come whenever I get a chance. But, it’s my first time in northern Nigeria though. I have been to Lagos and Abuja many times. I have been to Abeokuta and Ibadan. There is something very special about Nigeria.
What is that special thing?
The attraction is the brains and the intellectuals in this country that have been able to take all of us from Africa to the world- the amount of work that has been done. Obviously, there is more coming but the intensity of the work that comes out of Nigeria is incredible and it’s always a gift to immerse myself in this realm. And sometimes they say it borders on arrogance, but we need that to fight the racism that happens. Nigerians go into a space in Europe or America for instance, they take charge. Most times people get jealous, right? You could be a janitor or a professor but there is a level of confidence that is so attractive and for me to be able to breathe that energy, I love that!
Is that Nigerians’ undoing in South Africa?
I think Nigerians know how to make a living and sometimes people can be jealous. You know, southern and eastern Africa tend to be really quiet and reserved, not only as a cultural thing but also a thing imposed by colonialism. But, Nigerians go there and create space as it should be. Unfortunately, we have been so contained like you belong there and not here. But, somebody says I’m going to go out there and be me. It’s perceived like you are taking over, but actually you are just being you. I love the ‘being you’ of Nigerians because they challenge oppression and challenge the spaces that say “you are black, you can’t be in here, you are a woman, you can’t be in here.” Look at my sister, Bakare Yusuf and Lola Shoneyin. These women are taking over and you see they are doing what should be done in order to also outdo things around colonisation, patriarchy which by the way came with colonisation. It’s just those kind of things that I see and love.
Do you think that Nigerians are contributing to South Africa’s economy?
I think all Africans are contributing because they don’t go there and look for work, rather they create work and they create skills. So, if you’re smart, you ask “can I work with you or for you so I can learn these skills”? Sometimes people’s ego make them turn their noses at it because instead of them to say “Hey, how did you manage to do that? I thought that’s the thing only white people do.
You said the recent attack is not xenophobia but Afrophobia. How do you mean?
Xenophobia is when you hate the French person or the English person. We have a number of white Americans who are in South Africa but nobody is gonna trouble them because they are white and they have got an American accent. It is Afrophobia. It is an internalised hatred and when you express that hatred, it can create a fire.
There has been this allegation that foreigners in South Africa always end up taking girlfriends and wives of South African men. You want to react to that?
I don’t know where this interview is going but to be honest with you, when you look at the kind of violence that happens to the bodies of women in South Africa, and you look at who is making that violence, it is not Nigerians, not Somalians or Ugandans. But, the men in South Africa. So, we are scared and that is just the truth. The two places that I fear the most for my life and body, is South Africa and US. I don’t fear Nigeria, even people in Nigeria know that you can’t just go off like that. I wouldn’t go into a park with someone who is a driver in South Africa because the things that are happening to us are very bad.
Apart from writing, what else do you do?
Well, I write not just poetry, I write anything. I do non-fiction, fiction and I’m still learning. Fiction is more difficult than content writing. I perform, sing with Jazz band and sometimes I dabble into photography wherever the spirit leads. But, mainly I do poetry and I organise as well. I produce poetry and jazz event because that’s an important part of not just being a writer or a performer but being able to create spaces where younger people would also grow and share their experiences.
What is your advice to African leaders on issue of unity on the continent?
They need to take us serious. When Notre Dame Church in Paris, France was razed down, African leaders ran there in solidarity. But they are not running to us when in crisis. They need to take us serious because we are paying for all of these- we pay taxes and everything that we consume. They need to love us because we matter.
Have you won any award?
A number of universities have offered me awards including the University of California, Los Angeles and the rest of others.
