A former Attorney-General of Lagos State, Chief (Mrs) Wonu Folami (rtd), is indeed enjoying her retirement. A fulfilled grandmother, Wonu Folami, who is the first Nigerian female to bag a Master’s Degree in Law, the first ever chairperson of the United Nations Commission for Criminal Justice and Crime Prevention, the first woman to be elected as Director of Public Prosecution, now finds time to laugh, dance and enjoy the company of children. According to her, “I go to bed whenever I like. I do whatever I like at my own time, and I travel whenever I like. I am my own person now. I have no restrictions except family commitments and commitments to friends.” She is presently at the forefront of the call for the return of the kidnapped Chibok girls. She spoke to PAUL UKPABIO about her lifestyle and the values that made her a success in life, at her home at Victoria Island, Lagos.
Would you say that your background influenced the person that you are today?
Of course, I couldn’t have become who I am without the solid foundation that I had and the schools that I attended. I grew up in the heart of Lagos Island and attended schools here before I went abroad for further studies. I attended CMS School at Broad Street. That was where it was first located before they moved to Bariga much later. From there to Queen’s College, Yaba, Lagos, before going to the UK where I did my A-Levels and then the University of London. I have been privileged in the choice of schools that I attended.
What did you study at the University of London?
I read Law at the first degree, and also for my Master’s Degree.
Why did you choose to do both degrees in the same university?
I didn’t think about that, I just went for it. I guess I was used to the environment. After the first degree, I left for Nigeria to attend the Law School. On completion of that, I returned to the same flat where I had stayed and continued with the second degree.
What motivated you to go to London for further studies?
During my time, there weren’t solid Nigerian universities. We all went abroad. It was a standard practice at that time. The University of Ibadan couldn’t contain all of us. Most people went abroad, London, America, Germany or wherever.
Were you a silver spoon kid?
(Laughs) Of course I was. I had a very privileged up-bringing. I lacked nothing but at the same time, we had discipline and love, it was a very exciting period. It was free, it was moral and it was educative. We had social knowledge because my father was a family man, we had home training. What we learnt at home, nobody teaches such in school. That is because, at home, you learn culture; you learn how to behave in a home environment and to people around you; thereby, you grow up appreciating that kind of behaviour and life.
That is what is missing in our society today. People are not being well groomed before they go out. Then in my household, you woke up in the morning and you had chores to attend to. You cleaned the compound, you cleaned the toilet, you swept, tidied up your room before you went to school. How many children do that these days? Now, they have house-helps. We must go back to such values so that they can appreciate life, the quality of life that we had then. I pity the children growing up these days, because they do not have the privilege to learn these things and know them.
You said that your father was a public man.
Yes, he had his own business but he was also a politician. He was one of the founders of Action Group. In fact, meetings were held at our home then. He was Alhaji Sule Olusola Gbadamosi. He was an industrialist. My mom was a business woman. We lived very close to the Oba’s palace in Lagos Island.
Can you compare the Lagos you had then with the Lagos we have now?
Oh, that would be incomparable! I think it is because there were fewer people living in Lagos then, so the facilities were enough for everybody. We had high standard of hygiene. We had health inspectors, they were called wole-wole, who went round to ensure that people were leaving in healthy environment. We had public dustbins where people threw in their stuffs. It was very near the house and the government officials picked it up that very day. We had sufficient electricity. We grew up having electricity. I didn’t imagine then that there could be power outage. When we walked to school then, our drainage channels were so clean that we used to make paper boats and threw them into the water and traced it as we walked to school to see who would win. But the drains we have now, a child would not even want to go near them because they are so filthy.
What kind of Lagos would you want to have presently?
I will like to have the Lagos of my time where children were free to go out; we were free to roam around the neighbourhood to go and see our friends. Where we went out freely to watch the masquerades Igunuko, watch various festivals the Egungun festivals, Eyo and so on. But now, no reasonable parent would allow the children to go out like that into the street. It is no longer safe. We need a safe, clean and healthy environment. I pray we get there. I know we will get there someday.
But these days, there is still the popular Fanti Festival in Lagos Island?
Yes, it’s still there, but will you allow your child to go there all alone? Those days we went out all alone; the beauty of it then was that, every man was his brother’s keeper. If I misbehaved outside and I was caught, I would fear being reported at home because I would be disciplined beyond imagination. So you cautioned yourself not to misbehave even outside your home. These days, even to spank your child is abuse; to do this is abuse, to even do that too is abuse. ‘Spare the rod and spoil the child’ is what we grew up with and it worked for us. The society is so lax now and that is why we are having the issues that we are having these days. I am not saying that all was good, but then the majority of what we had then was good. We have to find a way back to it. That was the system that made people like me and a whole lot of people that grew up along with me then.
Your dad was a politician; did that influence you in studying law?
No, it was my uncle that influenced me. He was a lawyer. He was the Late Justice Micheal Adeyinka Odesanya. He had his chamber opposite our house. I used to go there in the evenings to admire the books and clients coming into the office. I was very infatuated with what lawyers do. Even before I went to secondary school, I had loved a lawyer’s office and seen what it was about. I had decided to be a lawyer and I was encouraged by my parents.
After Law, what did you do?
When I finished Law, I came to Nigeria for Law School; afterwards I went back for the second degree. But after a while again, I returned to my uncle’s chambers. I worked there. However, I later went abroad to Zambia to lecture Law there. I was invited back by Late Justice Elias of the International Court of Justice to be part of the Continuing Legal Education. That was where lawyers were kept abreast of the law. But when that institution ran out of funds, it was funded by the Ford Foundation; I then went to public service to the Ministry of Justice. It was there that I was posted as legal adviser to various ministries.
How long did you stay in public service and did you enjoy it?
I stayed for 24 years. I loved it. I was lucky that I was moving from one ministry to another. I ended up as Director of Prosecution for the federation. From there, I went to Lagos State as the Attorney-General and Commissioner for Justice. It was what God decreed. I loved the service to the people. I loved to believe that I was being a part of the people that were making Nigeria tick. That is because without the civil service, government could not perform. I love people. I was brought up in a communal kind of home where there was sharing.
Can you recall any major project that you were part of while you were the Attorney-General?
When I was appointed, there was this hue and cry about delayed justice. The courts were over worked, cases were much, and went on for several years unresolved. I then approached my boss then, Brig-Gen. Buba Marwa with the idea that we can have a conflict resolution centre so that many cases would not go to court. He bought the idea and started this office called Public Complaints Office. By the time we knew it, the place was always packed full with people with small complaints, landlord and tenant, husband and wife, children and separation issues. It reduced the work load in the law courts. Fortunately, it was taken over by subsequent governments and it grew into the Public Defender’s Office. I started it as a Public Complaints Office. And I think they are doing very well. People go there when they cannot afford the court or afford the delays sometimes associated with courts.
So what do you do now?
Completely and absolutely retired, I do religious work and social contributions here and there!
How about family?
I have many children and many grandchildren. I am happy with them; they take good care of me. I take good care of them; sometimes I have to be a nanny, which is okay by me. It is fun, really fun to be a grand mom. It is always good to be with children because they make me laugh. You cannot be dull when children are around. One day, they even asked me if I were ever a child! ‘Of course I was once a child!’ I replied.
What would you say has kept your marriage this long?
I think its understanding. I always say that a woman does twice the work of a man. She runs the home and also does her work. A man does his work but does not run a home. What your children become is a demonstration of who you are; the values that you have been able to teach them, and so on. If they are in a home where the environment is pleasant like the home that I grew up in, where there is love, understanding, respect, give and take, there will be no problems. True, a man is the head of the family and commands total respect, but my understanding is that a man who knows his onions will respect his wife and her feelings, respects his wife’s wishes and honours her desires. That is the only way that a marriage can be successful.
With your background in legal matters, if you see a troubled marriage, what immediately comes to your mind?
My feeling instinct will be that such a marriage should not break because of the complications that it will involve and how it will affect the children and those involved. If it does happen, the consequences are usually horrible. So my maternal instinct never wants marriages to break.
In the course of duty over the years, when you saw it coming, what came to your mind?
Well, seeing it coming gave the opportunity to try to stop the breakage. At that point, one could apportion blame and give guidance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. There are no hard and fast rules. We just have to do our best and leave the rest.
So, does that mean that it is not in most cases that a couple causes the marriage collapse?
Yes, other issues could be interference by families, friends and so on. That is why when people get married at the reception, they are told to contain their marriage between themselves and not to allow third parties, because third parties are problematic.
So, how have you complemented your husband in your marriage?
I run the house, I do the cooking, I do majority of the work in the house despite the fact that I had a high profile job. Till today, I do majority of the cooking in the house. I am very fussy about what I eat. I do not allow any house help to cook for me or my husband till today. And my family enjoys my food.
Looking back now, do you remember any major challenge in the course of your career?
When you have a situation where your best is not enough not because you are not working hard, but because you are not being appreciated, when you are posted to a ministry as a legal adviser and the head of the ministry, that is the minister or permanent secretary, as the case may be, is doing things in an unlawful manner, it becomes a great challenge. On one hand, the bulk stops at their table, and on the other hand, you are there to advise. At that point, I had to go back to my ministry that posted me there to tell them that those are the issues on ground and this is my advice. So at that point, he will call his colleague to order. That was the kind of challenge I had, giving advice and it being possibly rejected and knowing that the consequences could be bad for the nation.
You said you are into religious things, can you explain?
I am the first Vice President of my religious organisation called Jamatul Islamiyya of Nigeria. We are into propagation of Islam according to the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet. We have schools, we visit the prisons, we donate to displaced persons, homeless people and I am glad that I am part of the Bring Back Our Girls from Chibok campaign. It is my hope that the girls will return home safe. Initially, some people did not want to believe, but now they know that it is true. We meet every Saturday to discuss ways and means of helping the communities back in Chibok. They also come to meet with us and we talk to them.
How do the mothers feel right now?
You know, the Yoruba have this saying that it is better to know that a child is dead than missing. Like any parent, they are in a terrible state. I believe four of the mothers have passed on within this period, while some are very ill. It is sad.
Do you think the children will come back?
I believe so.
Do you see a better prison reform coming to be?
Yes of course, it will be better. The prison is a reform centre but if it is not run as such, if they are allowed to be in abject poverty and their dignity is taken away from them, then you are not doing the reformation part, which is the most important part. It is bad enough that they are confined but please, make them better human beings than they were when they went to prison. They should be able to come out and integrate with the society when they come out. They are some people who have gone to prison and turned pastors, it is a good thing.
Tell us about your work then, did you have opportunity to travel?
Yes, all over the world, Czechoslovakia, England, America, Netherlands, South Africa, everywhere. You know, I was also the chairperson of the United States Commission for Crime Prevention and Criminal Justice. I was the first chairman of that commission. We had meetings in different countries. I became chairman as a result of being the Director of Public Prosecution of the federation. There was an election and I won in the international community to become the chairperson.
Do you think that young brilliant lawyers presently can aspire to the top like you did?
Of course, but then, there were a few of us, but now there are many of them. There are lesser opportunities now. There are not many job opportunities these days. A lot of them are reading a second degree now not out of choice, but in the hope that it will help them get jobs. We were very lucky in that when we got back, the jobs were waiting, a car was waiting and a house was waiting, but not these days.
Back then, in your younger days, did you use to go dancing?
Of course, we used to go to Club Arcade, ‘Time with Bobby Benson’ and so on. But our parents used to give us time when we must be back at home. In those days, there used to be a gong that was sounded in Lagos around 7pm. You could hear it anywhere you were in the city. We had to be in doors at that time. That was part of home training and discipline. If you were not home at that time, you were grounded and would not be able to go out with your friends again. We used to play lots of records then and danced to disco. We also went for picnics where Parkview is now located in Ikoyi. I used to dance a lot.
What socials do you do these days, do you still dance now?
Yes I still do; I dance a lot. I go to parties and I enjoy myself to a limit because Lagos parties can be very hectic and tiring. That’s because there are so many of them. So I always have to choose which one to attend.
What’s your fashion sense like?
I wear what I like. I am not a slave to fashion. Please, at this age what would I be looking for? I have seen it all. I have been privileged with my achievements in life.
While in England, may I ask why you did not marry a ‘white man’?
(Laughs) It did not occur to me. At that time, we had friends, yes we were in the university together, but we still belonged to the Nigerian community more. Not that it was wrong because some of my friends did and they lived happily thereafter, but it just didn’t happen like that for me. My husband and I met here in Nigeria.
What fashion accessories would you not do without?
My hand bag, that is because it keeps me tidy. I keep my things there.
What is your good health secret?
As you grow older, you have to watch what you eat. I love green salad. I do not eat as much as I used to eat. It is not healthy. For local food, I avoid rice because it is polished. But I eat Ofada rice. I eat fresh fish stew with ewedu. I eat it with amala or pounded yam and vegetable.
What would you say is the secret of longevity?
I don’t know (laughs). I just know that I have to obey certain rules of living which are: sleep well, eat well, exercise and live with things that make you happy. Move away from things that will make you depressed. Avoid anything that stresses you. I do not like it when people disturb my way of life, like my sleep habits. I respect your freedom to live your life the way you like and I also expect that you respect my freedom to live my life the way I like.
Your best holiday…?
My best holiday was to the West Indies. I loved the beaches and then the camaraderie that I enjoyed there, including the history fascinated me. One of the reasons why I went to Zambia to teach was because apartheid had come to an end. I was in the University of London, just finished my second degree when Zambia came to recruit. So, I went there to teach at the university. Going to a country where they were just learning to be accepted in their own country, for me, was exciting. It was a time when they started thinking as a people, of their own. That was a fascinating time for me. I am glad I had that experience.
Your first car…?
It was Opel Mantra and it was a red car. It was a coming-home-present for me from my dad and I loved it. How did I feel about the car? My own car, at that age and time, I drove it everywhere! With my first car, I just wanted to drive everywhere. A first car is always an experience.
What will you like to be remembered for?
I will like to be remembered as a loyal friend and a loving family member.
