Prof. Niyi Osundare, an erudite professor of English who just won the National Merit Award is a renowned poet, writer and scholar. In this interview with Edozie Udeze, he bares his mind on a number of national issues including the Nigerian leadership conundrum, his perspective on the educational system, why the Nigerian youth needs mentors and other matters. Excerpts.
How do you feel getting the Nigerian National Merit Award?
I think I’ve already indicated that in my acceptance speech. I have been lucky because I have gained series of other awards in my career. But this one has special resonance because it is a life-time kind of award and recognition. Number two, it is one recognition of the entire country that I also recognize. Why? Because it is essentially managed and competed for by fellow professors, professionals, women and men of high intellectual repute and integrity.
Like I have said on a number of occasions, this is one award profile that has not been politicised or contaminated by the ubiquitous Nigerian factor. No federal character, no quota system. Merit, which is its model and which is part of its motto has not been contaminated. I think Nigeria needs something like that. We need something more! Two weeks ago in Abuja, oh yes, exactly two weeks ago, when I was embraced by former laureates, I trembled. I held J.P Clark by the hand, Professor Laz Ekwueme, Prof. Chukwuemeka Ike, and Prof. Ayo Bamgbose. Then Professor Akin Mabogunje, Prof. Ayo Banjo couldn’t come because of family bereavement. There were contemporaries of mine like Professor Femi Osofisan and others.
So, I felt I was surrounded by genuine intellectuals. That is one group in this country I am so proud to be in their midst and be a member of. But if you have to be funny, that is one cult that I really want to be a part of. It is a humbling and flattering experience.
With this, how close do you think you are to getting the Nobel Prize in Literature which most people have been saying may soon come to Africa again?
Oh, my God. You know you are asking a question for which I do not have an answer. Eh, well, I thank people for wishing me well. Yes, I keep doing the work. I pray for good health and the energy and very important, the goodwill of the people. If you are a writer and you have no reader it is not complete. But one thing that has overwhelmed me is the award. The kind of responses and accolades from people have been overwhelming. From Austria, China and everywhere and including Nigeria here, it has been heartwarming. I didn’t know I have so many friends. So, I am extremely grateful that this has happened. So whether it is in the future, I hope for the best; I keep working as a writer. That is all I can do: that is all I can say for now.
You have been involved in youth mentoring in Ekiti State. What made you show so much interest in nurturing the young ones?
It is a very important aspect of education and acculturation. I wouldn’t have been where I am today if I hadn’t been lucky to meet good teachers and good mentors. I remember all the teachers that taught me from January 1953 when I stepped into a classroom for the first time. It was one harmattan morning in Ikere-Ekiti. Then on May 14, 1979 when I gained my PhD in Toronto, Canada, I remember all the names. I think I have dedicated three books to such people in my life. A good teacher therefore is essentially a mentor. I have one big ambition. I do not want to be only a teacher, but also an inspirer. It is important.
As human beings, we have our highs and lows. You could destroy or discourage one person with just one negative adjective. You, you will amount to nothing, you are stupid. No, this is not right. We all have to crawl before we walk, and the human heart is so tender; it has to be nurtured. In fact, it is like tendering it like a flower. If we expose it too much to critical heat, it will wither. At the same time you don’t have to pamper it. Tendering and nurturing help to put the human person together. This is very very important.
Now, how did I become a university teacher? I give the credit to people like Dan Izevbaye, Ayo Banjo, Dapo Adelugba and someone somewhat remotely Wole Soyinka who taught us until he had to leave the university and so many other teachers who were not Nigerians. This is because then at the University of Ibadan, only three of our teachers were black, the rest of them were white. After graduation, I was teaching at my old school, Christ School, Ado-Ekiti, when the invitation came for me to see one of my teachers at the University of Ibadan. Then it was based on merit, even for your post graduate studies too. He asked me if I was interested in a post graduate course abroad. I said well; let me first of all speak to my parents, to my former headmaster. May be I was just taking it easy. Then he sent another note. Then I went to see him and that was how I went to the University of Leeds on University scholarship. Two years later, I had to go abroad again for my PhD. This time it was to Toronto, Canada. And I went again on the university scholarship. So, Nigeria has done so much for me.
How do you mean….?
Yes, I am a lucky person. Yes, if I am angry at all, it is because leadership is not able to do enough for the young people. Osofisan is not a god, I am not a god. No we are not giants but we are what we are today because of the opportunities we got. We were in school when the educational system of this country was extremely good. When I got to the University of Leeds after my first degree here, I walked straight to the classroom because I had a sound education here. This was so because our standard in Nigeria then was of international standard. But these days, foreign universities do not accept Nigerian graduates even with first class. This is because our educational system is extremely weak.
I am in the system and I am not blaming my colleagues but we need to do more. The products of our universities are not good at all. Mentoring the young ones right from when it matters most is therefore very necessary. We all made mistakes when we were young. When we were young that part of brain that controls maturity was not yet ripe to take decisions. So, you are bound to stumble but you need someone around you to direct you. Many children don’t have stable family. Many children don’t have educated parents. Now, you need people to guide you. Before it was only the teacher who did that, now so many teachers have been destabilized and so we need additional mentors. So, it is extremely important that we keep mentoring in order to get it right for the young ones.
In the United States and Britain and other developed societies, you have an important department in the universities called the Guidance and Counseling. Now, it has been introduced in many Nigerian universities. Let the people in those units sit down and advise the young ones on what to do. A guy is doing so well in Literature, in History and in all Arts subjects, but because of people he now says, I am going to be an engineer. He does not have enough skill to do so. But it is left for the mentor to say no, you have to create a match between your ability and your ambition. And it is important to be able to take the right step. It is a long journey and life is always a locus of conflicting or confusing way. You have to take a decision. When you are young you can’t do that, because you do not know what road to take.
You take the advice of a wise and experienced counselor. When I was young, one man who put my foot on the right path he is late now, he was my father’s younger brother Chief Tayo Ayodele. He was the man who did it for me. I have dedicated one of my books to him. That was my first selected poems. I didn’t realise what he was doing to me when he was broadening me and directing me on what to do. He was the first to go to secondary school in our extended family. We all looked up to him and he was so generous to me. That is what mentoring does to you. And all young people need such guidance to be able to move on well in life.
He taught me lesson in humility, generosity and love. It is not only to master the alphabets, you have to have character. You need to look up to somebody. The reason our political system is so rocky is that there is no one to look up to.
There are people I call epochal individuals. These people are usually mentors and leaders. We have never had such people in Nigeria. Mentoring is a very broad-based phenomenon. It is about being a model. How many politicians in Nigeria today would I say I want to be like and I would like to encourage my children to be like? Is it people who preach ‘stomach infrastructure’ or those who laugh at the intelligence of the people and say oh no, no, na book we go chop? Yes, in Ghana, Kwame Nkrumah made the difference. If you get to Ghana today, you will see that once upon a time a great leader passed through that way. But here, who do we have? Even the man in Singapore. Even Lula Da Silva of Brazil who lifted the economy from nothing to something. These are good and sound mentors who touched the lives of the people.
What of at the university level…?
At the University level, our universities don’t even know what mentoring is all about. Look at how they throw out old professors. They are already looking at the files, saying oh, when will this man be due to leave, to retire from the system? Or when will he be 65 or turn 70? And someone is already working for the establishment ready to write you a letter, reminding you that your time is almost up. No serious university system does that. Of course there are people who are deadwoods, we agree. But those who are old if they are valuable you keep them. Even big names in the Faculty list will attract more serious scholars from all over the world. There is no age limit in American universities. There is this old professor at the Harvard University who uses walking stick and leans on it most times. When I was talking to him, I said, oh you are still here and he looked at me and said, ‘Well, you see, I am creaking in every joint. But these people won’t let me go’. People come and sit at your feet to listen to you, to learn about the wisdom you’ve gathered over the years.
There is some kind of experience you cannot read in books, you cannot see on television, you cannot hear on radio, but can only come from human beings. Countries that are serious about ideas use people; you don’t just throw them away. Ayo Banjo when it was time for him to go, I was the head of department and he was the vice-chancellor for eight years. He was then on a post office leave, with his brief case in his hands. He said to me, good morning sir, I have come here to report for duty. And as a teacher, I laughed. We had two courses that needed extremely experienced hands to handle. Then I said to him, please can you help us in those courses? He said, jolly well, jolly well. He was so happy and we as colleagues were also happy. Banjo immediately blended into our midst. When it was time to recommend him for Emeritus Professorship, I called a departmental meeting and it was unanimous. That letter took me two days and fortunately the university approved it. Today the Department of English gains tremendously from that development and Ayo Banjo is a pride to the department. That is the way it is. We are gaining from the presence of Ayo Bamgbose, a linguist. Human beings are the ones who build institutions. But we do not value them in Nigeria; it is money, money, money all the time.
In those days communities took care of teachers but teachers were well appreciated. They gave them food and ensured they did not lack. In fact, parents were proud to send their children to school to become teachers. Chinua Achebe made it clear in most of his writings. Teachers had respect and they impacted that respect on the people. That was how people like us were educated. Achebe wrote Things Fall Apart when he was 26 years. Wole Soyinka wrote his most complex play, A Dance of the Forest when he was 26. Now, how many 26 years old can do that now without a second degree?
We have very bright young men and women, but the system now is different. This is sad because everything has been monetized. When I was young, my grandmother used to say that it was evil people who lock in themselves. Our houses were open most of the time because people were good to one another. Today, you dare not try it. In fact, I know this country when it was a better country. Today everything has gone so bad with fear and mistrust all over the place. This is why I am angry. But we can make this a better country? This is a good country. East, West, North, what do we not have? Look at tomatoes from the north, yams from Abakaliki, timber from the west, millet, sorghum, don’t even talk about oil and so on.
Now, how can we live in an ocean and wash our hands with saliva? The reason is that we do not have mentors, we don’t have leaders. Our politicians are thieves, thieves all over the place. Look at security vote or constituency allowance, what does that mean? What do they do with such huge amount of money? This is what most of them take home every month. From the local government to federal, it is the same situation, the same story. Nigeria has money but it is going into the wrong hands. Nigeria helped me. Me, son of a peasant farmer! Nigeria therefore should be able to help more. We have the capability to do so. I blame the leaders and now I also talk about the followers. When you give people a kongo of rice and a kolobo of garri, has that solved any problem? Eat today, drink this and then they vote for you, has it solved their problems? You have voted away the prosperity of your children and their future. We who are being led, must learn how to be led. A good follower is the one who follows by knowing his and her rights. Any politician can take you for granted but it is you who will say no to that. We are too docile in this country and we are divided along ethnic and religious lines to be able to come together to form a common front. People who steal our money do not say you are Igbo or Yoruba; they just steal. That is why they are stealing the money. In the past if you stole you were put in prison and your family would not be able to get a wife easily. But today, once you steal and can steal well and more, you get a chieftaincy title. Your pastor would call you to crown you as the pillar of the church for being a clever and a bigger thief. Today if you stole well in Abuja and you go back to your village, you’ll be given a white horse to ride on.
