Eddie Iroh, no doubt, has left a mark everywhere he has worked. Some of the places where his name still re-echoes are: The Guardian Newspapers; the Nigerian Television Authority (NTA) and Federal Radio Corporation of Nigeria (FRCN), where he was the Director-General, among others. A chummy happy personality, he returned to the country a few days ago from the United Kingdom where he has his ‘young family,’ and decided to share with us his present lifestyle, in this interview with PAUL UKPABIO. As usual, the writer-novelist is downright frank, and a reporter’s delight.
You’ve been outside the country for quite a while now, how do you feel being back at this time?
The first thing I feel is the weather. I’m coming from a low degree climate. But Nigeria is home. Home is not always the way we individuals want it to be. But then no place is. What is important is that we have opportunities that we can make it the kind of home we will like to see. When you have been abroad, when you have seen the 21st century as I have, all you wish for your country is the best. All you wish for your country is that it ought to be offering no more excuses after 53 years of freedom. We ought not to be blaming the British for anything, absolutely nothing, should we blame the British for.
After amalgamation they ruled Nigeria for between 46 years. So we have had 53 years of our own situation. I feel happy to be home, to look at things that can be done and hope that they will be done. Many of them are do-able. In the 21st century, if you can’t fabricate it, you can borrow it. If you can’t manufacture it, you can buy it: If you can’t do any of those, then Google it. There are no new miracles. The modems, the modules and the models are there. So that is how I feel when I come back. I hope that we are aware that there are opportunities for advancing our nation.
Would you like to share with us what you have been doing in the UK?
In the true sense of the word, I should be retired. My family is there. That is where I came from to serve in government in 1999. That is where I have a roof over my head. I don’t have a home in Nigeria: Sad and surprising as it may be, to some people. But more importantly, my family is there. My children go to school there, the state gives them care, compassion and commitment. Britain is a welfare state. The children get education free, at least until the university, and unless they are in private school. We all get free and comprehensive medical services, and that includes us their parents.
These are the important things, especially for someone like me who have a young family. And when you do, you want to nurture them in the best way possible. UK is where they were born. That is home for them. It is possible to have two homes just like it is possible to have dual citizenship. We have two homes, especially for them. I am forever reminding them that they are people of African descent, that they are British citizens by birth. Nobody can tamper with that. They are natural born British citizens; you can’t deny them their rights.
There will be racism; there will be discrimination in every society and in every facet of life, but there are laws that make it a criminal offence for those children to be denied in anyway because of colour. You can’t legislate against prejudice because it is in the heart of people, but discrimination openly displayed is against the law and no one is allowed to do that. My children are aware of this, and I constantly remind them that they live in a society where you have every right to be, but your blood flows all the way from Africa!
How African are your children?
Oh, they are Africans because we’ve raised them as Africans. I tell them that the proudest thing they can show to an outsider is that ‘we do not do that in my home. We do not do that where we come from.’ They do not use swear words. They respect their elders in the manner that most British white children would not. It is the way we raise them as Africans that they will take to the wider world. The school cannot raise them as Africans, because the school is not African. UK is a multicultural society, but what my responsibility is as a father, and my wife’s responsibility as a mother, is to raise them as Africans because we are both from Africa.
But make no mistake that they are at the same time truly British. This duality of culture is good for them to face the challenges of the future. And mind you, not all values and cultures from Africa are right or good. My wife is always insisting on that. But those that are positive, we encourage and nurture.
But how do you keep yourself busy?
When I get consultancy work, I do it. But I am working on a book that I call my magnum opus: my great work. I think there is a need to capture Nigeria in its entirety, from Independence to modern times. The story of Nigeria has not been told. We tell them in chapters, in pockets and in segments, in interviews. Alas we do not have a culture of writing memoirs. Those who have ruled Nigeria still owe us a full account of their stewardship. The civil war, military rule, formation of political parties, these are important segments. But I am interested in a whole and a holistic book, possibly to capture both the troubles with Nigeria and the opportunities of and for Nigeria; the aspirations and possibilities for Nigeria.
Is it going to be a narrative?
Yes, it has to be. It is not going to be fiction. You see, nobody has captured the Nigerian psyche. What is it that makes a people who are so blessed, so endowed but so unable to forge ahead and maximise the opportunities that God has blessed and spoiled them with?
When you are out abroad, what do you miss about Nigeria?
I don’t miss the cooking because we cook Nigerian foods there too (laughs). I miss the vibrancy of the Nigerian society. Britain, like many older democracies, is settled in their ways. They are stable in their democratic practices. They do not have problems like election rigging. If there are some cases of election malpractices, they are immediately isolated and thrashed. So there is no drama, like someone saying ‘Oh I was rigged out.’ That is what I miss. You know, people saying you rig me, so I out-rig you, rice for rice, stick fish for stick fish you know, that kind of uniquely Nigerian debate.
Of course, it is not healthy. But I am just being facetious. But seriously I miss the vibrancy of the Nigerian political scene. I miss the contest of ideas, I miss the way we are constantly talking, constantly seeking, and constantly challenging ourselves. What I do not like about challenging ourselves is that, if I am in government today, anything you say is wrong in Nigeria, I take it personally that you are attacking me. Nigeria is more than any single person. Nigeria is 53 years of many governments, many achievements and many failures. We are part of what is wrong with Nigeria. We are part of the failings and successes of Nigeria. I dislike the fact that every criticism is personalised.
In the UK, criticism is seen in its objective context. It is seen as somebody who wishes their nation well. But I do miss the intellectual ferment of ideas among the journalistic elite. We have so many problems to face and so on, so we are constantly talking. I enjoy that a lot because I believe that modern problems are solved not by constantly seeking answers but constantly elaborating the question. And the Nigerian questions are plenty and complex.
Can you compare the lifestyle here and that of Britain?
I find that the British are spoilt. The Americans are a little bit more suspicious of anybody who takes too much care of them. From their foundation as a nation, they do not trust single authority or one powerful central government. The limitations of the federal authority in America are very set and clear in their constitution. But the British have been spoilt over the years since 1945 when the welfare system came into practice.
The welfare system takes care of you from cradle to grave. In every aspect, pregnancy, birth, nurturing the baby, mother is given maternity leave; father is given paternity leave all fully paid, depending on which of them is working. The midwife will come and look after the baby from birth and keep monitoring the baby. At a certain stage, you are given various children’s allowances for the baby; and if you are taking that baby to work and putting him in a crèche, the state pays. These are people who are so spoilt that every little thing un-settles them.
I say to them come and live in Africa and see life in its dynamic, challenging nature. They are very spoilt. Look at them, everybody is crying about flood, Americans are crying about snow, if it happens here, we’ll just have to deal with it. We do not have the facility they have for emergency repairs and emergency fire-fighting. Yet they are moaning, complaining and I say to them come and see where I come from, this thing will be seen as a blessing! It’s good to look at them complaining about things that we take in our stride. So that is the contrast of the two societies.
Have you developed new hobbies?
My hobby is reading. I like to walk. In Facebook, for instance, I wrote that my hobbies are walking and talking. I like to think that I am reading enough, but I know I am not. I have a second family, and they are young, it is exciting. Therefore, I have to make sacrifices that it entails. But I enjoy being a father, ‘a young father.’
Let’s share some of your experiences as a multi-faceted journalist?
Now, you are talking about a life, generations that traverse military rule, civilian, democracy and different shades of governance. When we founded The Guardian Newspapers in 1993, we all had columns that we wrote. After about three years, I got tired of being Managing Editor. I wanted to return to the mainstream journalism to do what I enjoy to do, that is, reporting, editing, and so on. I got sent to UK as the Regional Editor for Europe and North America. That enabled me to return to core journalism and I enjoyed that. I got to UK in August 1985. I went there, took over a column called London letter. It was being written by Ken Mckenzie. The first piece I wrote in the first one week attracted the anger of the late General Tunde Idiagbon, who called the publisher Alex Ibru and he said tell ‘Eddie Iroh that because he is in London doesn’t mean he can attack us.’
And what was the attack? I had simply said that Kamuzu Banda, who was then the President of Malawi was the longest serving president in Africa at the time, and his age was a state secret. And that if you said something like that in Nigeria under the then decree 4, you would be in trouble. The decree was totally unabashedly against the press to curb press freedom. I was in the dock at the trial as representative of Guardian Press Limited which was the non- person and the third accused at the trial of Tunde Thompson and Nduka Irabor.
If Guardian Press was a human being, I would have gone to jail with Tunde and Nduka. They were found guilty at the tribunal. That represented the most horrendous abuse of press freedom in the whole history of Nigeria because the issue that provoked decree 4 was totally harmless. But we have put all that behind us now. And one of the things that I commend Nigeria for is that, I do not see in the history of this country any need, compulsion or excuse for us to return to that era ever again. It is more important that Nigerian leaders and rulers should bear in mind that in any action they take, that they should not give anyone any opportunity to interfere with our democracy, which is still very young and fragile. If our leaders remember that, it will help.
Nothing ever is new, we have split the atom, and we are not going to re-split it. Just consider that George Washington, the first president of United States, was not a scholar, he was an ordinary farmer. He was not a political scientist, but he nurtured a new democracy. And most of the things he did at the time have guided American democratic growth today. How was he able to do it? He didn’t have two heads, just one like the rest of us. That is the way I measure my person. If you put me here to sweep the streets of Abuja and you put another person to sweep too, both of us with equal equipment, if he sweeps better than me, then I have clearly conceded that he is superior to me. Without saying it, he will know that he is superior to me. That is the way that we people of black colour, Africans who are looked down all over the world, should think of our challenges.
Let us not make any pretences about it. If you find the ‘oyinbos’ at home, they joke about us and laugh at us. Some African rulers have remained in power for 30 years. What new things can they bring? Clinton walked away even though he was very popular and is considered a successful president. But he didn’t try to change the constitution. He said when he entered the White House; he began to prepare for the day he would leave the White House. That kind of discipline, when we are not able to show it, we are saying Mr. Clinton, you are superior to me.
Look at what longevity did to Libya and Egypt, it damaged them. They did not encourage succession. Just like Charles De Gualle used to say in France, ‘After me there’ll be catastrophe. I am the state.’ Nobody can be the state. A state is a state. You serve the state, you move on. But Africa hasn’t recognised that, and it embarrasses us when we are abroad and people like Bongo and Mugabe are wheeled out in a wheel chair. And they are running for election. But then we look at the Late Mandela, the Madiba and we say, thank God we have one person who can do things in a different way.
Has your style changed, now that you are in the UK? Do you get stuck with suits or do you wear our traditional clothes?
The traditional wear is appropriate to our weather, not just our culture but our occupation. When I was in office here, Friday and Sundays, I wore traditional. In UK, that will be inappropriate. The day I wore a white kaftan to church on Sunday, everybody came to me and ask, ‘are you a priest?’ I’m not there to promote that; I am an African. As Wole Soyinka said, ‘a tiger does not go around proclaiming that its tigritude.’ They can see that I am an African.
At your present age, how will you like to describe yourself?
I am a lot more mature, a lot more sober. I used to be tempestuous as a young man. Even when I was not so young, I used to bang the table in the office. I am easily frustrated by people who cannot think quickly. I am easily frustrated by people who make a heavy weather of simple task. I am more sober and statesman-like now, a word which is not reserved only to politicians. I enjoy mentoring young people.
What has been your joy being a novelist?
I enjoy writing and benefiting, commercially from my works. Amazingly, the first deposit I paid for my home in the UK in 1986 was from ‘Without a Silver spoon.’ It sold well abroad, and I got the kind of money that a writer in Nigeria could possibly not get at that time. It was a major achievement in terms of commercial satisfaction. A writer doesn’t write just because he wants to make money out of it. It was a story that I felt I needed to tell. When God has blessed you professionally and personally, it is important not to forget where you are coming from. I don’t believe I’m lucky, I say I am blessed. To come from one little village and reach the pinnacle of my profession, only God could have done it.
You had other publications
Yes. When I finished my tenure at Radio Nigeria, what I did was to go back to my computer to write a sequel to ‘Without the Silver spoon.’ It’s called ‘The banana leaves.’ It dealt with a different facet of the life of the character. Some people think there ought to be another book to complete the story of this young village boy. But I haven’t thought about that yet. Before then I had done a trilogy on the Nigerian civil war. Unfortunately, Heinemann, the publishers no longer produced the African Writers Series. But there is my intention at some point, if I can find the resources to revise, reproduce and reprint the trilogy as one book. I pray to God that I do that someday. That is if I could get a grant from perhaps the British Council, The Arts Council in the UK or some other agency. The civil war trilogy is ’48 guns for the general,’ ‘toads of war’ and ‘siren in the night.’ The first one dealt with those who fought the war for money, the second one was the civilian-Nigerian Biafia equivalent of the mercenaries. For them, the war was an opportunity, rather than crisis. Then the third was the consequence of war, no victor no vanquished. Yes, it sounds a good slogan. But in the real sense of it, right up to this minute, Ibos are still suffering for the civil war. Today somebody said that his regret is that Emmanuel Ifeajuna, the first black African to win a gold medal, when he won the high jump in Canada at the Commonwealth Games in 1954, was never given a national honour. That’s because he fought in Biafra. In spite of forgiveness, there are those who felt that these people are too dangerous, so they had to use stealth methods to deal with the matter.
You’ve been in broadcasting, what do you do think of broadcasting in Nigeria now?
We have gone passed digital now, we are into digital audio broadcast. Today you cannot say that Radio Nigeria is not allowed to broadcast beyond Nigerian borders. That door that limited them is obsolete. I was able to put in on the internet before I left. You can get Radio Nigeria today anywhere in the world. So it has moved on. Television too has to go digital. In the UK, if I miss a programme, I digitally access it. If I want to record a programme every week, I programme it. If I miss some segment of the news, I can do a rewind. Just press a button and it goes back like in video recording. If we are not aspiring to do things like these, then we are not in business, whether we are a commercial, state or national station. My people say if you do not know how to eat roasted palm nut, leave it alone. We cannot be old fashioned in this age because constantly, technology is being challenged. I commend TVC, the station is an inspiration for us to see that there is a television station coming out of Nigeria to us there in UK to know what is going on. And they are as balanced and professional as they can be. India has about six channels on the Sky platform. China has 6 or 7, while South Africa has about 2 or 3. If we are going to be competing, we had better compete on their terms and TVC comes close to that, very close to that. If you are in this business, better be the best you can.
Now that you are here, do you miss your family?
Even to come out here was wahala. They were saying, ‘Daddy you are going away again?’ You know, they are young. And we are a close knit family. I use to tell friends that even if you put us in Buckingham palace, you will always find us all in one room. We are close, we are Africans. From my first marriage, I have three children who are grown up, live and work in Austria where their mother originally came from. They are a part of me; if they have any problem, the first person I imagine they’ll call is ‘dad.’ Yes I miss my family in the UK. Their mother is of Nigerian origin, but her own mother is American. Her father is Edo.
The trend among the rich seems to be marrying younger wives when they grow much older. How do you cope as a much older husband?
I didn’t marry two wives; my first marriage broke down because my father-inlaw did not approve of an African marrying his daughter. He made it clear from the beginning. He worked at it and eventually succeeded. I wouldn’t marry two wives. I am a Catholic. I don’t know if I will go to hell if I marry two wives, but the teaching of my church will not allow it. With all due respect to all women, one wife is enough problem (laughs)! A lot of women too will say that one husband is enough problem. We didn’t have any long running problem, the father just kept the pressure. And because she was compliant with her father, the marriage broke down.
Are you enjoying your much younger wife?
My answer will be disrespectful of the women of my generation. But the truth is that, there are not many of women in my generation to marry from. At the time I was again forced into the ‘marriage market’ not by choice, but by circumstance, the only way to marry my age group would have been to go and take somebody’s else’s wife (laughs). There are not many women who are in the age bracket that I am expected to relate to. On the other hand, you see younger women who have finished school waiting for challenges. You run into them and because of my nature and life, I do not do ‘oga.’ I was raised by ‘white people’ who treated me as an equal. I regard folks like that. Maybe the way I related to her, she didn’t feel the age difference. Though she said too that she always wanted to marry an older person. I cannot speak for other people.
Is it easier to live over there with that kind of marriage than here?
The pressure over there is a domestic one. My wife has been transformed by the British society. In Abuja here, she was only able to drive one or two kilometers, and I used to be worried that she might get into trouble. So I used to tell the driver to follow her. Today she drives 20 kilometers everyday to take the children to and fro school. She has been able to cope with the stressful demand of running a home and looking after children. She has also shown the kind of strength that I didn’t know she had. She was about 25 then. She has also gained by recognising her inner strength. But here she would be putting up her feet and somebody will cook and clean. Over there, she has to do most things by herself. She doesn’t allow anybody to iron her kids’ uniform for her. There are things she doesn’t assign to anybody. I come in sometimes to assist her wherever I can. I cook quite often. I enjoy cooking. I take out the garbage. Somebody has to take it out and the council will take it from there.
These are things that ordinarily Eddie Iroh would not do. But I do them with pleasure. First it supports my family; secondly, it brings out the human side of me. It makes me more human, humane and humble. When you consider that there are people whose job it is to carry out that garbage every day, and put it in the truck and dispose of it. Bringing it out of your house should be a small matter. I think it is much easier to live there if you do not feel like ‘oga’ (big man). When I cook, I serve; I clear up and wash up. When she cooks, I also help. I am happy and I believe she is, in spite of the pressures of life.
